1870 Tower Help - The Firearms Forum

Hos · 06-10-2012, 12:54 PM

I have a 1870 Tower Musket that is 69 cal. smoothbore unlike Hawke`s it is a 3 band and it has a fixed rear sight, all that is on the lock plate is the crown at the rear and Tower over 1870 just ahead of the hammer, on the trigger guard there is an arrow pointing up with WD then a crown with E under it then an 18 on the bottom, these are in a vertical line, this appears again on the butt plate, R crown M Enfield, broad arrow over 1 in a circle is stamped on the right rear of the stock,there is an 'S' stamped on the barrel opposit the lock ,the gun has been lighty cleaned , any ideas on this?

deadin · 06-10-2012, 01:55 PM

We're going to need some pictures on this one. It sounds like a standard Brit military musket except that, as far as I know, they weren't making any .69 caliber smoothbores in 1870. Possibly you have something put together from parts...?

Hawg · 06-10-2012, 02:01 PM

Probably had the rifling bored out to use as a shotgun. Many rifled muskets were done that way after the C.W. and more than a few had the stocks cut down also.

deadin · 06-10-2012, 02:10 PM

dup..

deadin · 06-10-2012, 02:12 PM

Were the Brits still making percussion muskets in 1870??
Maybe for civilian trade to Africa or somewhere but this one sounds like it has military property marks.

Jim K · 06-10-2012, 02:13 PM

Hint: The British weren't making any muzzle loading muskets by 1870.

But the Japanese, and others, were making "Tower" muskets in the 1980's, marked "1870".

Jim

Hos · 06-10-2012, 02:22 PM

I`ll have to take some pics and upload them, I got this from an old gunsmith that said it was an original, it`s very old though

Hos · 06-10-2012, 02:36 PM

How do I upload pics on my Post?

Jim K · 06-10-2012, 02:46 PM

Click on "GO ADVANCED" below the message window, click on "MANAGE ATTACHMENTS", then use the "Browse" button to find and upload files from your computer.

Jim

Hawg · 06-10-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

Hint: The British weren't making any muzzle loading muskets by 1870.

But the Japanese, and others, were making "Tower" muskets in the 1980's, marked "1870".

Jim

The Jap ones didn't have the proper markings. Even tho he said musket it's probably a Snider.

Hos · 06-10-2012, 03:23 PM

I posted some pics , they should be visible now

Hos · 06-10-2012, 03:29 PM

Hawg · 06-10-2012, 04:16 PM

Well it's no Snider. Can you do a closeup of the lock markings?

jack404 · 06-10-2012, 06:54 PM

3 band enfield

Jim K · 06-10-2012, 07:43 PM

Some oddities: The "Tower" mark is not right and the date is below "Tower" rather than above it; there is no "V.R" under the crown. The hammer doesn't look right and, as I said, the date does not compute. By 1870, the Snider Mk III (a new rifle, not a conversion) was in production and the Martini was undergoing testing and would be adopted the following year. Muzzle loaders had not been produced since 1866.

It almost looks like the lockplate has been "scrubbed" and spurious markings put on. It is almost certainly not an original Tower lockplate as it is now.

I can't fully explain all the anomalies on that gun, but it is not an original, untouched 3-band .577 Enfield and it was not made at Enfield in 1870.

Jim

jack404 · 06-10-2012, 07:55 PM

this may help

http://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/a...Rifles&item=51

Hos · 06-11-2012, 08:19 AM

Thanks all

Hos · 06-11-2012, 08:23 AM

deadin · 06-11-2012, 09:27 AM

I'm thinking it's a mongrel. Stock and fittings military (re military acceptance marks) Barrel either a whizzed out .577 Enfield (out to .69 is a pretty big "whizz", so maybe from somewhere else) Lock from a Snider conversion with a retro-fitted hammer. Also notice how the ramrod doesn't fit correctly. (From something shorter?? How long was the Snider or Martini of the era?

Maybe I'm all wet, but I willing to bet it's not original.......

06-10-2012, 12:54 PM	#1
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	1870 Tower Help I have a 1870 Tower Musket that is 69 cal. smoothbore unlike Hawke`s it is a 3 band and it has a fixed rear sight, all that is on the lock plate is the crown at the rear and Tower over 1870 just ahead of the hammer, on the trigger guard there is an arrow pointing up with WD then a crown with E under it then an 18 on the bottom, these are in a vertical line, this appears again on the butt plate, R crown M Enfield, broad arrow over 1 in a circle is stamped on the right rear of the stock,there is an 'S' stamped on the barrel opposit the lock ,the gun has been lighty cleaned , any ideas on this? Attached Images --> Last edited by Hos; 06-10-2012 at 03:16 PM..

06-10-2012, 01:55 PM	#2
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: 1870 Tower Help We're going to need some pictures on this one. It sounds like a standard Brit military musket except that, as far as I know, they weren't making any .69 caliber smoothbores in 1870. Possibly you have something put together from parts...?

06-10-2012, 02:01 PM	#3
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,559	Re: 1870 Tower Help Probably had the rifling bored out to use as a shotgun. Many rifled muskets were done that way after the C.W. and more than a few had the stocks cut down also.

06-10-2012, 02:10 PM	#4
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: 1870 Tower Help dup.. Last edited by deadin; 06-10-2012 at 02:13 PM..

06-10-2012, 02:12 PM	#5
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: 1870 Tower Help Were the Brits still making percussion muskets in 1870?? Maybe for civilian trade to Africa or somewhere but this one sounds like it has military property marks.

06-10-2012, 02:13 PM	#6
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 1870 Tower Help Hint: The British weren't making any muzzle loading muskets by 1870. But the Japanese, and others, were making "Tower" muskets in the 1980's, marked "1870". Jim Last edited by Jim K; 06-10-2012 at 02:14 PM..

06-10-2012, 02:22 PM	#7
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help I`ll have to take some pics and upload them, I got this from an old gunsmith that said it was an original, it`s very old though

06-10-2012, 02:36 PM	#8
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help How do I upload pics on my Post?

06-10-2012, 02:46 PM	#9
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 1870 Tower Help Click on "GO ADVANCED" below the message window, click on "MANAGE ATTACHMENTS", then use the "Browse" button to find and upload files from your computer. Jim

06-10-2012, 03:23 PM	#11
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help I posted some pics , they should be visible now

06-10-2012, 03:29 PM	#12
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help pics Attached Images

06-10-2012, 04:16 PM	#13
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,559	Re: 1870 Tower Help Well it's no Snider. Can you do a closeup of the lock markings?

06-10-2012, 06:54 PM	#14
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: 1870 Tower Help 3 band enfield

06-10-2012, 07:43 PM	#15
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 1870 Tower Help Some oddities: The "Tower" mark is not right and the date is below "Tower" rather than above it; there is no "V.R" under the crown. The hammer doesn't look right and, as I said, the date does not compute. By 1870, the Snider Mk III (a new rifle, not a conversion) was in production and the Martini was undergoing testing and would be adopted the following year. Muzzle loaders had not been produced since 1866. It almost looks like the lockplate has been "scrubbed" and spurious markings put on. It is almost certainly not an original Tower lockplate as it is now. I can't fully explain all the anomalies on that gun, but it is not an original, untouched 3-band .577 Enfield and it was not made at Enfield in 1870. Jim

06-10-2012, 07:55 PM	#16
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: 1870 Tower Help this may help http://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/a...Rifles&item=51 Attached Images

06-11-2012, 08:19 AM	#17
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help Thanks all Last edited by Hos; 06-11-2012 at 09:33 AM..

06-11-2012, 08:23 AM	#18
Hos Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 10	Re: 1870 Tower Help Lock Attached Images

06-11-2012, 09:27 AM	#19
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: 1870 Tower Help I'm thinking it's a mongrel. Stock and fittings military (re military acceptance marks) Barrel either a whizzed out .577 Enfield (out to .69 is a pretty big "whizz", so maybe from somewhere else) Lock from a Snider conversion with a retro-fitted hammer. Also notice how the ramrod doesn't fit correctly. (From something shorter?? How long was the Snider or Martini of the era? Maybe I'm all wet, but I willing to bet it's not original.......