Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? - The Firearms Forum

Dutch3 · 01-08-2011, 10:13 AM

I am hoping someone can answer a question for me regarding cylinder design variations. Some 5-shot .32 S&W Iver Johnson top-break cylinders have a "long" machined cut for lockup without a defined "stop" at the deeper end. Others have a much shorter ramp with a defined perpendicular notch.

Some Examples:

"Long" version

"Short" version

I have seen both examples on early and late versions of these revolvers, both Safety Hammer and Hammerless. I have swapped some cylinders around and they seem to be quite interchangeable. Is there any significance to the design differences?

I would appreciate any information.

-D

b.goforth · 01-08-2011, 01:44 PM

all first and second model safety automatic revolvers have non-automatic cylinder stop. the cylinder stop is actually made as part on the trigger and not a seperate part. these have the long enlongated cylinder stop, early first models have a hook on the top strap to retain cylinder(1894 only). most first models and all second models use the threaded cylinder bushing to retain cylinder (1895-1908). when the thrid model was introduced in 1909 one of the changes was an automatic cylinder stop was added. these use the rectanglar postive stop and the cylinder stop is a seperate part. in 1911 a new type of cylinder retainer was introduced, having a lug on the bottom of the forcing cone that had to be match up to a slot on the cylinder bushing. this is very postive and did away with the threads on the cylinder bushing which tended to wear with age.

in total there are four type of cylinders used of the safety automatic revolver.
1894-only= retained by hook on bottom of top strap (non automatic cyl. stop)
1895-1908= threaded cylinder bushing (non automatic cylinder stop)
1909-1910= threaded cylinder bushing (automatic cylinder stop)
1911-1942= collar on cylinder bushing and lug on barrel ( automatic cyl. stop).
these changes were made in all calibers 22, 32 and 38.

only the cylinders within these four types are interchangable. no cylinder outside of these types are interchanable. your pictures only show the second (threaded cylinder bushing non auto cyl. stop) and the last fourth type (collar and lug auto cyl. stop). the majority of the safety automatic revolver do fall into these two types.

for a quick and easy way to tell the first and second and the thrid models apart. look at your pictures
first model= side lever barrel latch
second model= two pins on frame between cylinder and trigger
third model= four pins on frame between cylinder and trigger

most people do not care to get this technical but there are many small changes in the first and second model and even the third model which show a progession of design changes to manufacture the safest and best top break revolver.
bill

Jim Hauff · 01-08-2011, 01:57 PM

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of why Bill G. is THE I.J. "Go to Guy"!

Dutch3 · 01-08-2011, 02:24 PM

Thank you for the detailed information, Mr G!

I am a little bit confused, as I believe I have a late 2nd model ("S" prefix) with a threaded-bushing positive-stop cylinder in it...and it seems to operate properly.

Perhaps I need to look more closely.

-D

J_N_Buddy · 03-04-2011, 11:28 AM

This comment is related to Jim Hauff, you posted a picture of a revolver just like mine, I just acquired a Iver Johnson revolver and it is in very poor condition, whoever it was before me dumbass sprayed painted this gun black, I assume it was nickel I can't give very little info about this gun, I do know I need a trigger spring and grips for this gun, I will try to post more latter when I find out more. the serial no. is very hard to see I am going to try and clean it up some. Then I will post more. can anyone tell me where to look for parte for this gun. Thank You

01-08-2011, 10:13 AM	#1
Dutch3 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Northern California Posts: 3	Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? I am hoping someone can answer a question for me regarding cylinder design variations. Some 5-shot .32 S&W Iver Johnson top-break cylinders have a "long" machined cut for lockup without a defined "stop" at the deeper end. Others have a much shorter ramp with a defined perpendicular notch. Some Examples: "Long" version "Short" version I have seen both examples on early and late versions of these revolvers, both Safety Hammer and Hammerless. I have swapped some cylinders around and they seem to be quite interchangeable. Is there any significance to the design differences? I would appreciate any information. -D -->

01-08-2011, 01:44 PM	#2
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? all first and second model safety automatic revolvers have non-automatic cylinder stop. the cylinder stop is actually made as part on the trigger and not a seperate part. these have the long enlongated cylinder stop, early first models have a hook on the top strap to retain cylinder(1894 only). most first models and all second models use the threaded cylinder bushing to retain cylinder (1895-1908). when the thrid model was introduced in 1909 one of the changes was an automatic cylinder stop was added. these use the rectanglar postive stop and the cylinder stop is a seperate part. in 1911 a new type of cylinder retainer was introduced, having a lug on the bottom of the forcing cone that had to be match up to a slot on the cylinder bushing. this is very postive and did away with the threads on the cylinder bushing which tended to wear with age. in total there are four type of cylinders used of the safety automatic revolver. 1894-only= retained by hook on bottom of top strap (non automatic cyl. stop) 1895-1908= threaded cylinder bushing (non automatic cylinder stop) 1909-1910= threaded cylinder bushing (automatic cylinder stop) 1911-1942= collar on cylinder bushing and lug on barrel ( automatic cyl. stop). these changes were made in all calibers 22, 32 and 38. only the cylinders within these four types are interchangable. no cylinder outside of these types are interchanable. your pictures only show the second (threaded cylinder bushing non auto cyl. stop) and the last fourth type (collar and lug auto cyl. stop). the majority of the safety automatic revolver do fall into these two types. for a quick and easy way to tell the first and second and the thrid models apart. look at your pictures first model= side lever barrel latch second model= two pins on frame between cylinder and trigger third model= four pins on frame between cylinder and trigger most people do not care to get this technical but there are many small changes in the first and second model and even the third model which show a progession of design changes to manufacture the safest and best top break revolver. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com Last edited by b.goforth; 01-08-2011 at 01:53 PM..

01-08-2011, 01:57 PM	#3
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of why Bill G. is THE I.J. "Go to Guy"! __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

01-08-2011, 02:24 PM	#4
Dutch3 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Northern California Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? Thank you for the detailed information, Mr G! I am a little bit confused, as I believe I have a late 2nd model ("S" prefix) with a threaded-bushing positive-stop cylinder in it...and it seems to operate properly. Perhaps I need to look more closely. -D

03-04-2011, 11:28 AM	#5
J_N_Buddy Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1	Re: Iver Johnson .32 Cylinder Differences? This comment is related to Jim Hauff, you posted a picture of a revolver just like mine, I just acquired a Iver Johnson revolver and it is in very poor condition, whoever it was before me dumbass sprayed painted this gun black, I assume it was nickel I can't give very little info about this gun, I do know I need a trigger spring and grips for this gun, I will try to post more latter when I find out more. the serial no. is very hard to see I am going to try and clean it up some. Then I will post more. can anyone tell me where to look for parte for this gun. Thank You