U.S. Looks to Vietnam for Afghanistan Tips

[22WRF]

NATO's top commander in Afghanistan and the U.S. special envoy to the country telephoned renowned Vietnam War historian Stanley Karnow on July 27 to discuss the two conflicts.

BRUSSELS -- Top U.S. officials have reached out to a leading Vietnam war scholar who opposes American involvement in Afghanistan in an apparent effort to apply the lessons of the earlier conflict to the fight against the Taliban.

NATO's top commander in Afghanistan and the U.S. special envoy to the country telephoned renowned Vietnam War historian Stanley Karnow on July 27 to discuss the two conflicts.

Karnow is a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian who authored the seminal 1983 book, "Vietnam: A History." He says envoy Richard Holbrooke called him and passed the phone to Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

Holbrooke confirmed to The Associated Press that the three men discussed similarities between the two wars.

Good idea the main difference I see is the terrain and the Taliban don't wear black pj's

[armedandsafe]

The terrain is the primary similarity in the two conflicts. The terrain is on the side of the guerillas.

Pops

[22WRF]

Cave vs tunnels, open vs canopy. CBU's and Napalm would be my choice for the camel jockeys .

[swanshot]

In both cases you are fighting an idea, you can't win

[dew38]

WIPE IT OFF THE MAP!!!

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by swanshot

In both cases you are fighting an idea, you can't win

Depends what you mean by 'win'. If you mean total defeat and surrender by the enemy, WW2 style, your right.

Our side must know that and no doubt have aims they consider achievable.

The question in my mind is how long and how many lives will it take?

[Tom Militano]

Pull our troops out, give the Israelis all the weapons they need, and they would own the middle east in a couple of weeks. They don't play or worry about world opinion.

[Rocket J Squirl]

Hmm, Walter Cronkite just died, I guess they only have Hanoi Jane, and John Kerry to rely on now.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Tom Militano

Pull our troops out, give the Israelis all the weapons they need, and they would own the middle east in a couple of weeks. They don't play or worry about world opinion.

Hm, sounds familiar. The problem, even for the Israelis is world opinion. I remember in the late 70s being in Israel, if I remember correctly, the family home of anyone found involved in terrorism, was demolished! I later found myself being told in N.Ireland 'we know who they are, and where they live but without every i dotted and t crossed, we cant touch them'. It was even remarked on to me at the time, that they wished they could act as the Israelis did.

So I guess today everyone has to play to world opinion, and in the case of some such as the PLO and Hamas, use and manipulate it with great skill. Dont get me started...

[Tom Militano]

I hear you Tranter.

[swanshot]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Depends what you mean by 'win'. If you mean total defeat and surrender by the enemy, WW2 style, your right.

Our side must know that and no doubt have aims they consider achievable.

The question in my mind is how long and how many lives will it take?

You are, of course, quite right Tranter, but I'm afraid that I have a very pessimistic view of Afghanistan's future.
The only achievable aim that I can see that might, just might, work, is to create an Afgan Government/army that is powerful enough to win the inevitable civil war that will erupt as soon as our forces leave, which sooner or later we will have to do.

The other thing that really worries me is that the "new" Afgan Government will be a monster that will turn on us. I don't mean a military attack, but rather that they will turn out, after endless compromises with the Taliban, or whatever it renames itself, to be just as bad as what we sought to change.
And all our efforts will have been for nought.
I hope I'm wrong. I honestly do hope I'm wrong.
Ironically, as pessimistic as this outlook is, the idealist in me says "we have to try"
I would look not to Vietnam as a model, but rather the Balkan wars. it doesn't matter which one you pick, they are all the same war.

[Teejay9]

Declare "Peace with Honor," wave the flag and march on out of there. We have to want to win it. Today, some Obanaite said we were no longer at war with jihadists, but only Al Qaida! Fine, if you want to destroy the United States, and aren't an Al Qaida, that's OK. It's the those guys we're after, not you.
Maybe Afghans don't want strip malls, cini-plexes, 30-minute delivered pizzas, Celeb gossip and all sorts of bottled water choices. Maybe they want to be Afghans. Let's kill as many Taliban/Al Qaida people as we can. Do it efficiently. Kill/capture bin Laden, and show the world just who they're messing with. Do it with great dispatch. Don't waste time "interdicting," just go out and kill as many of these people s possible and then let them be Afghans. TJ

[swanshot]

Originally Posted by Teejay9

Declare "Peace with Honor," wave the flag and march on out of there. We have to want to win it. Today, some Obanaite said we were no longer at war with jihadists, but only Al Qaida! Fine, if you want to destroy the United States, and aren't an Al Qaida, that's OK. It's the those guys we're after, not you.
Maybe Afghans don't want strip malls, cini-plexes, 30-minute delivered pizzas, Celeb gossip and all sorts of bottled water choices. Maybe they want to be Afghans. Let's kill as many Taliban/Al Qaida people as we can. Do it efficiently. Kill/capture bin Laden, and show the world just who they're messing with. Do it with great dispatch. Don't waste time "interdicting," just go out and kill as many of these people s possible and then let them be Afghans. TJ

Works for me mate.

[Teejay9]

Ah! Good on ya, mate. TJ