Curious Question about CCW - The Firearms Forum

sck · 06-18-2003, 11:51 PM

I wouldn't have believed it, but it looks like we are about to get a CCW law here in Ohio. At least it's getting closer. There are a couple of questions that I hope some of you from states that already have CCWs can answer. First, isn't there a concern that by getting a CCW, you are essentially giving the state a list of firearms owners? Remember a few years back when the federal government sponsored a test study to produce maps of gun owner ship in certain cities on a house by house basis? Well, isn't that what a list of CCW holders would produce? My second question is a little more difficult, so please stay with me. Here in Ohio, we have several cities that have laws prohibiting the ownership of anything that will hold more than ten rounds. For example, one fellow was recently convicted of owning a 20 round AR mag. I think it was 5 years and $10,000. So, for instance, let's say you get your CCW and qualify with a weapon that will hold a high capacity magazine. All that a really energetic law enforcement type would have to do is get the list for his city, look it over too see who is carrying what, and then get a search warrent for those residences that might harbor one of the dreaded high capacity magazines. I'm just wondering what you thought. Thanks -- Steve

Shizamus · 06-19-2003, 12:17 AM

The way i see it, you are excersising your rights thru
a privilege. Without the privilege you have no rights.
You also will be paying fees for this privilege.
You will be fingerprinted for this privilege.
Infringement after infringement !
The way I see it, this is registration.
I don't know why everyone thinks this is the graetest
thing since peanut butter. You are knowingly walking
into their trap. Is the NRA backing this ?

sck · 06-19-2003, 12:44 AM

Dear Shiz:
Unfortunately, all I know is what I read in the paper, and they usually get it wrong. In any event, according to the paper, the bill currently being considered and tentatively approved by the governor, who had been the problem, is being "reviewed" by the NRA. Once again, according to the article, the state senate committee has given the NRA 24 hours to comment--not a very long time for cogent examination. Some reps. and senators said that they were waiting for the NRA to comment and that the bill probably wouldn't proceed without NRA support. In fact, the article made it sound as though the NRA was some sort of political powerhouse that didn't allow anything to move without it's approval. I don't know if that was a jab at the NRA, or just my paranoid rendition of an innocent article. I'm still concerned about the ramifications of the proposed CCW and probably won't be getting one myself.

ruffitt · 06-19-2003, 03:34 AM

Don't know how it works in Ohio, but here in Michigan you must obtain a "Permit to Purchase" from local authorities prior to purchasing your pistol/revolver.

This negates the concept of "registration" for firearms where the owner applies for, or is in possession of, a CCW. The owner of the pistol/revolver is known, address and all, prior to anything to do with CCW.

Good or bad, "registered" or not, that is how it is done here.

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 03:52 AM

for us non acronym savy folks? ccw?
sheesh don't make me bust out with the linux/gamer/forumadmin lingo here damn it!!!

SouthernMoss · 06-19-2003, 05:56 AM

FN:
CCW=carry a concealed weapon

sck:
in some states, including MS and in FL (the two states with which I am familiar), you don't even have to own a weapon to apply for a ccw. So a list of ccw license holders would only be anecdotal evidence of gun ownership.

1952Sniper · 06-19-2003, 07:58 AM

I obviously can't speak for Ohio or other states. But in Texas, when you get your CHL (concealed handgun license) you can qualify with any handgun you choose. Even a rental one. You don't have to own a handgun to get the license. And they don't require you to register that handgun. So, they don't know what I'm carrying. To address your specific concern about the high-cap mags, I don't think that would ever be an issue in Texas.

Here in Texas, if you qualify with a revolver you can only carry a revolver. But if you qualify with a semi-auto you can carry anything you want. Are other states like that? Seems kinda silly to me.

Anyway, I agree that getting a CHL is somewhat akin to full registration. We have to get fingerprinted, background checked by the FBI et al, take the 10-hour course, qualify, etc. But the reason they do this is because we are kinda sorta "deputized" to act as law enforcement in certain scenarios. I won't get into that part of it here, but carrying a concealed handgun in Texas is not only about protecting yourself. So keeping that in mind, it's not overly unfair to require fingerprinting. Full-fledged cops have to go through that too.

But Texas has no requirements for getting a "permit to purchase" to buy a handgun. That kinda sucks for you guys in Michigan and other states that do that. I have several handguns that the government doesn't know about, which were purchased legally. So I'm not concerned about the government having a list of which firearms I own, based on any concealed handgun license information. It will probably be different in your state, but I'm just telling you how it is here (since you asked

).

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 01:58 PM

no no very infromative snipe
here in GA its called a CCL for short I belive. And I read the whole deal on the priviledges you get with this, and one of my buddies, yes hes a moron, thinks he can carry a concealed machete if he wants to, on the copy of the law it includes the handguns only, not knives or swords.

This buddy has also stabbed himself in the leg twice, he was using overly expressive hand gestures (yes just like in a movie), and this was at two different times. This is also a guy that started a little wrestling match with my best friend, and it escalated when the same moron pulled out his knife, he always has to step this up, first time this happened my best friend back off and I threw a chopping block into said morons wrist knocking the knife out of his hand, and had to break them up after they resumed. Also same moron did this type thing again, the situation escalated again.... anyhow knowing this what would you do when this guy goes to apply for a CCL? I mean I don't want to be a prick and just stool up he has not hurt anyone other than himself yet, but at the same time I want to prevent anyone getting hurt?
what do you do?

1952Sniper · 06-19-2003, 02:50 PM

Second Amendment issues aside, that guy doesn't need to be carrying a concealed weapon. Most states have requirements that you cannot be a fugitive from justice, a chemically dependent person, or a person of unsound mind.

The "unsound mind" thing is where your friend trips up.

FN_Project90 · 06-19-2003, 03:16 PM

but how do you inform the proper officials in the right manner, say the correct things all that? He grew up in a home that believed or something in just no doctors no prescribed drugs etc. if he had'nt, it would be different. He tried convicning my good friend, that he was gonna move in with us, as soon as winston graduates he is moving back here and we are getting a house. I told him, and winston agreed, that he would have to go to a shrink for a battery of tests and medications before I allowed it. Also if you live with someone like that your likely to get arrested for their stupidity...

Sir Bug · 06-19-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FN_Project90
... anyhow knowing this what would you do when this guy goes to apply for a CCL? I mean I don't want to be a prick and just stool up he has not hurt anyone other than himself yet, but at the same time I want to prevent anyone getting hurt?
what do you do? [/B]

FN, if this is a friend of your's, he'll probably tell you when he applies for a concealed permit. You owe it to everyone who owns, or plans to own a weapon, to see to it that the authorities are aware of his unpredictable, errant behavior. The gun owners do not need another statistic for the anti's to use. If he uses you as a background reference, you need to step up to the plate. To be a little morbid, you, and/or your other friend, may be a victim of his armed, aberrant behavior.

SCK, I'll address your question from a North Carolina view:

Our CCW is listed officially as, "North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit." To obtain one, an individual must take the State's CCW class, pass two written test, plus two more on the nomenclatures of both the revolver and semi-automatic. After passing the batteries of test, proficiency must be passed on the firing range. As stated by the instructors, it is the PERSON who is qualifying, not the weapon - use the weapon you're most comfortable with. The authorities do not know what weapon was used.

Once you receive your certificate, an application is made to the local sheriff's dept. It takes about four to six months to get a permit. The reason for the length of time - a thorough background check, including criminal, personal and medical.

Criminal and personal reference checks are normal business-as-usual. The medical checkup goes to five hospitals in the applicant's present and previous area of residency to check for mental and alcohol/drug dependancy. An additional referral, signed by the applicant, goes to his/her personal doctor for review and approval.

The finger printing was no problem since I was already on record via the Marine Corps.

In North Carolina, a person can carry a weapon without a permit as long as it is visible on the person, the seat of an auto or on the dash. Sorta leaves an invitation to anyone who sees it to steal it. Because I carry a weapon out of site when in my vehicle, I chose to obtain my permit so that I was within the law.

When I travel home to South Carolina, I have to stop at the border and lock it up in a non-reachable location. The North Carolina General Assembly has passed a bill to join 34 CCW states in a reciprocal agreement. Hopefully, that will be finalized by our Attorney General soon.

Any more questions, please let me know.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

FN_Project90 · 06-20-2003, 12:43 AM

Thanks man, its a while off for him. I am kinda an older brother to the guy, as his (whom was one of my good friends) died in a car wreck. I look after the guy,he is 19 and having it pretty rough. It's just hard to do this to someone you care about, and no it's not morbid in the least. I am kinda waiting to see how he matures, he has been given some independence, and was the assistant manager at a Moe's burrito joint, and left to work @ Home Depot, according to a girl I date he is very professional and seems to be growing out of a lot of his habits, he frequents the restaurant she works at. I think/hope it's just a matter of growing up for him and so far it looks to be so. However if the date comes and he is still showing such behavior I, after consulting my best friend (the other "victim"), came up with what to do and say. Also got a way to inform the proper authorities of this without any legal reprocussions to said individual. This is a decision I have been mulling over for quite some time, and have not had the means to consult with a wiser individual first. Again thank you

Sir Bug · 06-20-2003, 09:27 AM

FN, you are most welcome. I wish you and your friends well.

They say with age comes wisdom, but I think that is a little too presumptious. Wisdom comes from asking questions and learning the answers. Continue to ask questions.

Keep in mind that we gun owners have a comradeship. Without the support we give each other, and as a whole unit, our freedoms, rights and priviledges will be diminished and/or eliminated by those who oppose us. It is up to us to step forward when the need occurs.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

FN_Project90 · 06-20-2003, 02:18 PM

There are some bore hunts in early autumn on the Warner Robbins WMA land, and I want to try to get a group together for one. anyone interested? I will email out info

JohnK3 · 06-20-2003, 03:21 PM

FN, I'd be interested!

FN_Project90 · 06-20-2003, 11:54 PM

cool pm me your email I wil get the info from the wma site if thats where its at otherwise my father may still have it or know where to get it

1952Sniper · 06-23-2003, 09:19 AM

FN, I didn't realize your friend was so young. I'm not sure about your state, but most states have a requirement that the person be at least 21 years old to even apply for a concealed carry permit. So it sounds like he's got two more years to (hopefully) mature before he can legally get that permit.

06-18-2003, 11:51 PM	#1
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Curious Question about CCW I wouldn't have believed it, but it looks like we are about to get a CCW law here in Ohio. At least it's getting closer. There are a couple of questions that I hope some of you from states that already have CCWs can answer. First, isn't there a concern that by getting a CCW, you are essentially giving the state a list of firearms owners? Remember a few years back when the federal government sponsored a test study to produce maps of gun owner ship in certain cities on a house by house basis? Well, isn't that what a list of CCW holders would produce? My second question is a little more difficult, so please stay with me. Here in Ohio, we have several cities that have laws prohibiting the ownership of anything that will hold more than ten rounds. For example, one fellow was recently convicted of owning a 20 round AR mag. I think it was 5 years and $10,000. So, for instance, let's say you get your CCW and qualify with a weapon that will hold a high capacity magazine. All that a really energetic law enforcement type would have to do is get the list for his city, look it over too see who is carrying what, and then get a search warrent for those residences that might harbor one of the dreaded high capacity magazines. I'm just wondering what you thought. Thanks -- Steve -->

06-19-2003, 12:17 AM	#2
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	The way i see it, you are excersising your rights thru a privilege. Without the privilege you have no rights. You also will be paying fees for this privilege. You will be fingerprinted for this privilege. Infringement after infringement ! The way I see it, this is registration. I don't know why everyone thinks this is the graetest thing since peanut butter. You are knowingly walking into their trap. Is the NRA backing this ? Last edited by Shizamus; 06-19-2003 at 12:20 AM..

06-19-2003, 03:34 AM	#4
ruffitt TFF Admin Staff In Heaven Now Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sparta, MI / Now In Heaven Also Posts: 2,880	Don't know how it works in Ohio, but here in Michigan you must obtain a "Permit to Purchase" from local authorities prior to purchasing your pistol/revolver. This negates the concept of "registration" for firearms where the owner applies for, or is in possession of, a CCW. The owner of the pistol/revolver is known, address and all, prior to anything to do with CCW. Good or bad, "registered" or not, that is how it is done here. __________________ Any politician who doesn't trust me to own a weapon is not someone worthy of my vote, my respect, ~~ or my tax dollars.

06-19-2003, 03:52 AM	#5
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	for us non acronym savy folks? ccw? sheesh don't make me bust out with the linux/gamer/forumadmin lingo here damn it!!! __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-19-2003, 05:56 AM	#6
SouthernMoss Admin Tech Staff Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SW MS Contributor Posts: 10,651	FN: CCW=carry a concealed weapon sck: in some states, including MS and in FL (the two states with which I am familiar), you don't even have to own a weapon to apply for a ccw. So a list of ccw license holders would only be anecdotal evidence of gun ownership. Last edited by SouthernMoss; 06-19-2003 at 06:06 AM..

06-19-2003, 12:44 AM	#3
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Dear Shiz: Unfortunately, all I know is what I read in the paper, and they usually get it wrong. In any event, according to the paper, the bill currently being considered and tentatively approved by the governor, who had been the problem, is being "reviewed" by the NRA. Once again, according to the article, the state senate committee has given the NRA 24 hours to comment--not a very long time for cogent examination. Some reps. and senators said that they were waiting for the NRA to comment and that the bill probably wouldn't proceed without NRA support. In fact, the article made it sound as though the NRA was some sort of political powerhouse that didn't allow anything to move without it's approval. I don't know if that was a jab at the NRA, or just my paranoid rendition of an innocent article. I'm still concerned about the ramifications of the proposed CCW and probably won't be getting one myself.

06-19-2003, 07:58 AM	#7
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	I obviously can't speak for Ohio or other states. But in Texas, when you get your CHL (concealed handgun license) you can qualify with any handgun you choose. Even a rental one. You don't have to own a handgun to get the license. And they don't require you to register that handgun. So, they don't know what I'm carrying. To address your specific concern about the high-cap mags, I don't think that would ever be an issue in Texas. Here in Texas, if you qualify with a revolver you can only carry a revolver. But if you qualify with a semi-auto you can carry anything you want. Are other states like that? Seems kinda silly to me. Anyway, I agree that getting a CHL is somewhat akin to full registration. We have to get fingerprinted, background checked by the FBI et al, take the 10-hour course, qualify, etc. But the reason they do this is because we are kinda sorta "deputized" to act as law enforcement in certain scenarios. I won't get into that part of it here, but carrying a concealed handgun in Texas is not only about protecting yourself. So keeping that in mind, it's not overly unfair to require fingerprinting. Full-fledged cops have to go through that too. But Texas has no requirements for getting a "permit to purchase" to buy a handgun. That kinda sucks for you guys in Michigan and other states that do that. I have several handguns that the government doesn't know about, which were purchased legally. So I'm not concerned about the government having a list of which firearms I own, based on any concealed handgun license information. It will probably be different in your state, but I'm just telling you how it is here (since you asked ).

06-19-2003, 01:58 PM	#8
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	no no very infromative snipe here in GA its called a CCL for short I belive. And I read the whole deal on the priviledges you get with this, and one of my buddies, yes hes a moron, thinks he can carry a concealed machete if he wants to, on the copy of the law it includes the handguns only, not knives or swords. This buddy has also stabbed himself in the leg twice, he was using overly expressive hand gestures (yes just like in a movie), and this was at two different times. This is also a guy that started a little wrestling match with my best friend, and it escalated when the same moron pulled out his knife, he always has to step this up, first time this happened my best friend back off and I threw a chopping block into said morons wrist knocking the knife out of his hand, and had to break them up after they resumed. Also same moron did this type thing again, the situation escalated again.... anyhow knowing this what would you do when this guy goes to apply for a CCL? I mean I don't want to be a prick and just stool up he has not hurt anyone other than himself yet, but at the same time I want to prevent anyone getting hurt? what do you do? __________________ Things n' Stuff Last edited by FN_Project90; 06-19-2003 at 02:00 PM..

06-19-2003, 02:50 PM	#9
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Second Amendment issues aside, that guy doesn't need to be carrying a concealed weapon. Most states have requirements that you cannot be a fugitive from justice, a chemically dependent person, or a person of unsound mind. The "unsound mind" thing is where your friend trips up.

06-19-2003, 03:16 PM	#10
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	but how do you inform the proper officials in the right manner, say the correct things all that? He grew up in a home that believed or something in just no doctors no prescribed drugs etc. if he had'nt, it would be different. He tried convicning my good friend, that he was gonna move in with us, as soon as winston graduates he is moving back here and we are getting a house. I told him, and winston agreed, that he would have to go to a shrink for a battery of tests and medications before I allowed it. Also if you live with someone like that your likely to get arrested for their stupidity... __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-20-2003, 12:43 AM	#12
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	Thanks man, its a while off for him. I am kinda an older brother to the guy, as his (whom was one of my good friends) died in a car wreck. I look after the guy,he is 19 and having it pretty rough. It's just hard to do this to someone you care about, and no it's not morbid in the least. I am kinda waiting to see how he matures, he has been given some independence, and was the assistant manager at a Moe's burrito joint, and left to work @ Home Depot, according to a girl I date he is very professional and seems to be growing out of a lot of his habits, he frequents the restaurant she works at. I think/hope it's just a matter of growing up for him and so far it looks to be so. However if the date comes and he is still showing such behavior I, after consulting my best friend (the other "victim"), came up with what to do and say. Also got a way to inform the proper authorities of this without any legal reprocussions to said individual. This is a decision I have been mulling over for quite some time, and have not had the means to consult with a wiser individual first. Again thank you __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-20-2003, 09:27 AM	#13
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	FN, you are most welcome. I wish you and your friends well. They say with age comes wisdom, but I think that is a little too presumptious. Wisdom comes from asking questions and learning the answers. Continue to ask questions. Keep in mind that we gun owners have a comradeship. Without the support we give each other, and as a whole unit, our freedoms, rights and priviledges will be diminished and/or eliminated by those who oppose us. It is up to us to step forward when the need occurs. Your Friend in Dixie, Sir Bug

06-20-2003, 02:18 PM	#14
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	There are some bore hunts in early autumn on the Warner Robbins WMA land, and I want to try to get a group together for one. anyone interested? I will email out info __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-20-2003, 03:21 PM	#15
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	FN, I'd be interested!

06-20-2003, 11:54 PM	#16
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	cool pm me your email I wil get the info from the wma site if thats where its at otherwise my father may still have it or know where to get it __________________ Things n' Stuff

06-23-2003, 09:19 AM	#17
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	FN, I didn't realize your friend was so young. I'm not sure about your state, but most states have a requirement that the person be at least 21 years old to even apply for a concealed carry permit. So it sounds like he's got two more years to (hopefully) mature before he can legally get that permit.