Multiple firearms questions... - The Firearms Forum

the4hens · 11-21-2009, 10:31 AM

A friend just inherited the following four rifles and I'm helping him research info and value. I would greatly appreciate any history and value info any of you might have on the following firearms.

1. Hawes Firearms Co., LA, CALF muzzleloader (looks to be .45 ca.) with a marking that looks like a setting Sun and stamped Japan 507.

2. JUKAR SPAIN muzzleloader serial #0006638.

3. Diamond Arms Co. St. Louis shotgun (16 gauge?). Barrel marked on top ..."Barrel and lug forged in one piece". Rabbit engraving on side of receiver.

4. Marlin Crown Prince .22 (S,L,LR) Micro Groove Barrel

Thanks all!!!

Alpo · 11-21-2009, 01:50 PM

#3 - Diamond Arms was one of many names used by Shapleigh Hardware Company. Back in the "olden days", you could, pretty much, get anything put on your stuff that you wanted. There were several gun companies (Crescent Arms jumps immediately to mind) that would stamp your name on guns they made. Just like GM sells Buicks and Pontiacs and Chevies, and they are all basically the same car? Shapleigh would have guns made, and he had a dozen or so different names he had stamped on 'em. It's what is known as a "hardware store gun". Very common. Not especially valuable. Certainly less than a hundred dollars. If you friend wants to shoot it, he needs to have the chamber measured, by someone with a gauge. Older 16s quite often have 2 9/16" chambers, instead of the 2 3/4" that ammo is, now. 2 3/4" shells will fit in the shorter chamber (shotshells are measured in the open, fired dimension. as loaded they are about 3/8" shorter than they are after firing). Shooting 2 3/4" shells in a 2 9/16" chamber is doable. It increases recoil and (more importantly) pressures, drastically. Not a good thing on an old gun.

#1 - Hawes was an importer in LA. Was. Out of business for many years. I only knew about them bringing in revolvers from Germany. Didn't know they also did muzzleloaders from Japan.

#2 - Spain has made many (many many many) inexpensive guns, for export to here. Never heard of this particular one.

#4 - Marlin makes, and has for decades, fine 22s, and micro groove barrel is a trademark of theirs. Crown Prince single shot is from the 50s. Here's one at auction. Starting bid was a hundred bucks. No bids. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...1755&oh=216543

Kinda rare. According to this guy, they only made 'em in '59, and only made 7000 of 'em. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_what_ye...rince_22_rifle

the4hens · 11-21-2009, 04:17 PM

Thank you Alpo! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Your feedback was very helpful.

11-21-2009, 10:31 AM	#1
the4hens Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2	Multiple firearms questions... A friend just inherited the following four rifles and I'm helping him research info and value. I would greatly appreciate any history and value info any of you might have on the following firearms. 1. Hawes Firearms Co., LA, CALF muzzleloader (looks to be .45 ca.) with a marking that looks like a setting Sun and stamped Japan 507. 2. JUKAR SPAIN muzzleloader serial #0006638. 3. Diamond Arms Co. St. Louis shotgun (16 gauge?). Barrel marked on top ..."Barrel and lug forged in one piece". Rabbit engraving on side of receiver. 4. Marlin Crown Prince .22 (S,L,LR) Micro Groove Barrel Thanks all!!! -->

11-21-2009, 01:50 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,658	Re: Multiple firearms questions... #3 - Diamond Arms was one of many names used by Shapleigh Hardware Company. Back in the "olden days", you could, pretty much, get anything put on your stuff that you wanted. There were several gun companies (Crescent Arms jumps immediately to mind) that would stamp your name on guns they made. Just like GM sells Buicks and Pontiacs and Chevies, and they are all basically the same car? Shapleigh would have guns made, and he had a dozen or so different names he had stamped on 'em. It's what is known as a "hardware store gun". Very common. Not especially valuable. Certainly less than a hundred dollars. If you friend wants to shoot it, he needs to have the chamber measured, by someone with a gauge. Older 16s quite often have 2 9/16" chambers, instead of the 2 3/4" that ammo is, now. 2 3/4" shells will fit in the shorter chamber (shotshells are measured in the open, fired dimension. as loaded they are about 3/8" shorter than they are after firing). Shooting 2 3/4" shells in a 2 9/16" chamber is doable. It increases recoil and (more importantly) pressures, drastically. Not a good thing on an old gun. #1 - Hawes was an importer in LA. Was. Out of business for many years. I only knew about them bringing in revolvers from Germany. Didn't know they also did muzzleloaders from Japan. #2 - Spain has made many (many many many) inexpensive guns, for export to here. Never heard of this particular one. #4 - Marlin makes, and has for decades, fine 22s, and micro groove barrel is a trademark of theirs. Crown Prince single shot is from the 50s. Here's one at auction. Starting bid was a hundred bucks. No bids. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...1755&oh=216543 Kinda rare. According to this guy, they only made 'em in '59, and only made 7000 of 'em. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_what_ye...rince_22_rifle __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

11-21-2009, 04:17 PM	#3
the4hens Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2	Re: Multiple firearms questions... Thank you Alpo! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Your feedback was very helpful.