Wolf Ammo for AR rifles????

[dbltap]

Is the Wolf, Brown and Silver Bear ammo reliable in AR rifles? It's cheap but sometimes you get what you pay for. And what about TUL ammo; I think it's Russian too.

Thanks

[jlloyd73]

I had issues running those types of ammo in my AR. It seems that after I shot 20 or so rounds the coating they put on those types of ammo gummed up the chamber making extraction hard at times. It was odd because it only happened when I would pause from shooting for a few seconds (leaving a round in the chamber) then trying to shoot again.....like the coating got hot in the chamber and seized up some. I will not use it again in my rifle. I never had issues with brass ammo though.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by jlloyd73

I had issues running those types of ammo in my AR. It seems that after I shot 20 or so rounds the coating they put on those types of ammo gummed up the chamber making extraction hard at times. It was odd because it only happened when I would pause from shooting for a few seconds (leaving a round in the chamber) then trying to shoot again.....like the coating got hot in the chamber and seized up some. I will not use it again in my rifle. I never had issues with brass ammo though.

Bingo and we have a winner !!

I didn't shoot any steel/coated ammo through my Sig or any of my guns. You do get what ya pay for and steel cases will wear on your parts faster. Best bet is to buy up some decent ammo in bulk and then reload it.

If I had an SKS or cheaper mil surplus rifle, then I'd probably shoot the cheaper ammo through it. Treat your AR right and it will treat ya back the same.

[shorter260513]

I shoot silver bear with no problems and have another 1000 rnds of some other russian surplus the silver bear isnt coated with anything that I see and after about 700 rnds through my S&W not one problem if your worried about the coating on the shells get the silver bear

[312shooter]

Seized my bushmaster chamber every shot! Avoid this ammo unless you are shooting ak style rifles. Yes you get what you pay for and the mfr could give a rats behind what effect it has on the firearms in which it is used. Tula wolf etc is all the same mfr, and for the lack of better terms here it is junk.

[ramdino]

how about the hornaday ammo. i just bought some. it looks coated, not brass?

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by ramdino

how about the hornaday ammo. i just bought some. it looks coated, not brass?

Which hornady ammo? They have some that are steel cased, some nickel cases and some black nickel cases; in addition to the standard brass.

[jlloyd73]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

Best bet is to buy up some decent ammo in bulk and then reload it.

I am trying to go down Woolleyworm's route now. I have been looking to get into reloading.....already started saving my brass 4 months ago.

[redwing carson]

I have been shooting the Cabelas Herter brand .223 in my Pre-Ban Colt. The ammo shoots just fine no problems. I think this is made in China. I use it in the winter as the brass is lost in the snow. The price was good at $3.99 per 20 rds.

RC

[gdmoody]

I don't really recall having any particular problem with the steel cased stuff. If I get to go to the range tomorrow I will take some Tulammo with me and see what happens. I recently bought 500 rounds of it.

[upsguy]

I don't own an AR (yet), but I will add, Russian ammo sucks! I bought Tulammo, knowing it seemed exactly like Wolf in .45ACP. Just 50 rounds for $14 and shot it through my Glock 21. Halfway through, I split a case in the chamber and had a hell of a time trying to get it out. I like trying out different brands of ammo and (note to self) stay away from dirty, cheap, non-reloadable nasty a$$ ammo. You DO get what you pay for.

[ramdino]

Hey WW Hornaday 223 55gr FMJBT training. The casing looks steel with some kind of green coating.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by dbltap

Is the Wolf, Brown and Silver Bear ammo reliable in AR rifles? It's cheap but sometimes you get what you pay for. And what about TUL ammo; I think it's Russian too.

Thanks

In my experience...

Wolf used to make lots of lacquer coated ammo and while this green coated crap did aid in keeping the steel casing from making contact with the rifle it would get sticky and "melt" when it came in contact with a hot barrel, then if given a moment to cool it would stick in the firearm.

Then they started coating it with a grey polymer. We fired many rounds of this stuff through SKS and AK rifles without a problem.

I've personally never introduced this ammo to an AR15 that I can recall at the moment because I prefer Lake City XM193. Although I think I do have some squirreled away and wouldn't be afraid to use it if I had to.

If you have some of the old lacquer coated crap, I'd vote to dispose of it.


Crpdeth

[RunningOnMT]

What Crpdeth said. Here are some examples of what you can get Lake City for at Cheaperthandirt:


http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM207-5.html



Ammo 5.56x45mm Federal Lake City FMJBT 55 Grain 20 Rounds .223 for Military Grade Rifles New Production FMJBT XM193
52 Customer ReviewsOur Low Price: $6.79

20 Round box of this special 5.56 ammo, manufactured at the Lake City Arsenal, has a 55 grain boattail bullet with lead core and Lake City or Federal brass all designed for super accuracy in extreme conditions. This is first quality, new production .223 ammo designed for Military grade rifles packed in a 20 round box, 25 boxes per case. Sold by the 20 Round box.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM269-5.html



Ammo 5.56x45mm Lake City XM193A FMJ 55 Grain 30 Round On Stripper Clips Nato Military Spec
35 Customer ReviewsOur Low Price: $10.69

Manufacturer: Lake City XM193A
Item: AMM-269

Non-returnable item. We will not accept any returns on this item.

5.56x45 Nato, Lake City, 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail Bullet, 30 Round Box. 30 Rounds of the best of the 5.56x45mm Nato ammo, XM193A, current and original as supplied to U.S. troops. 55 grain Full Metal Jacket, military spec annealed case shoulder, and crimped bullet and primer. Pre-loaded on 10 round stripper clips, with three strippers per cardboard sleeve. Ready to speed load your 30 round magazines. Actual combat ammo, and very limited supply. Recommended for law enforcement use.

This is Military Grade ammunition, not seconds or pull-downs.
Muzzle velocity: 3200 fps.
Uses: Target Shooting, Training, Law Enforcement.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM223C-5.html



Ammo 5.56x45mm Military Lake City Penetrator M855 62 Grain 1000 Round Loose Bulk Pack
74 Customer ReviewsOur Low Price: $479.79


Manufacturer: Lake City M855
Item: AMM-223C


Non-returnable item. We will not accept any returns on this item.

1,000 Rounds loose - bulk pack of the Lake City Military 5.56 rounds. It is not packed in individual boxes and is loose in the case. Save money by buying it in this 1,000 round loose bulk pack.

Lake City 5.56 Ammo is the best 5.56 Military ammo manufactured. This is the original US Military Lake City Arsenal M855 SS109 Penetrator ammo firing at 3,025 fps. This is identical to the ammo being issued currently to US military.

5.56x45mm 62 grain Lake City SS109 ball cartridge, green tip with a steel penetrator and a lead core. The SS109 features a cannelure and boattail design and the primer and case is sealed for long term storage and moisture protection.

Simply put, this is some of the best ammo on the surplus ammo market today at a great price.

Ammunition is a non returnable item.

[TheGunClinger]

I have used many thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo in my AR. I used the polymer instead of the lacquer coated ammo. The only problem other than it is real dirty that I had was that the red primer sealer would accumalate under the extractor. What would happen is all of a sudden you'd get a case stuck in the chamber. So I would get out the brass rod and my hammer and knock the case out. Then I'd have to take apart the bolt and clean it. There would be a big red booger under the extractor which would prevent it from extracting. Remove the boogie, flick it at my nephew and away we go again. Wolf is very dirty but what the hay, you have to clean your weapon anyhow so no biggy. One thing is that they always went bang. I never had a bad round...so far.

BTW, I no longer use Wolf as there is so much good stuff available now.

[Bobitis]

Del-Ton will void their warranty if any steel cased ammo is used.
I wonder if SGBO may alleviate this problem?

[Laufer]

Various people have done tests on their ARs, and determined that Neither the old lacquer-coated ammo, Nor the more recent polymer coating can melt in the chambers.

Some guys have tested the coatings with a blow torch.
Who abuses their gun enough to have a similar temperature in the chamber?

They claim that the shorter 16" barrels create more pressure on the bolts, due to the timing of the movements, compared with the typical 20" barrels.

Some guys use expensive ammo, in order to risk the possibility of paying about $20 or so, for a new extractor.
The extra cash which they spend on US-made ammo far exceeds the price of such a new part.
Superstitions keep Russian ammo more affordable for the rest of us. Waiting on 1,000 rds of Wolf to arrive from "Ammoman".

[LurpyGeek]

Most of the Eastern Bloc steel cased stuff comes from the same factories. Wolf is just one distributor of Tula manufactured ammo.

The steel cased stuff is dirty, and as a general rule it is slightly underpowered compared to 5.56 NATO loads, but there is nothing wrong with it for cheap plinking. Some firearms have no trouble with it, while others will not cycle it. ARs have more trouble than most due to the fact that they crap where they eat (direct impingement). You'll have to try your own to know how it will react.

What you really need to understand about the steel cased stuff is that steel is not as flexible as brass. This is a problem both for shooting and for reloading.

The steel casings are coated to prevent corrosion and increase lubrication. (Brass is somewhat self lubricating. Steel is not.) The coating is either lacquer (older ammo... looks somewhat green) or polymer (newer stuff... looks silver or grey). You hear a lot of people talk about this coating "melting" and binding up chambers. This is not the case. When brass cased ammo is fired, the brass stretches to fit the chamber and makes a relatively tight seal with the barrel. Steel does not stretch the same way (or to the same extent) so more carbon gets blown back into the chamber around the casing. This wont necessarily hurt anything, but it does mean more cleaning needs to be done.

The biggest problems come when a brass cased round is fired after a session of shooting steel cased ammo. The steel cased ammo has left plenty of carbon and other garbage on the walls of the chamber for the reasons stated above. Then a brass cased round is fired and stretches to fit the chamber as it should. It can become jammed in the chamber because it has less room to expand and it "sticks" to the fouling. This can cause broken extractors or the extractor can even tear through the rim of the casing.

This isn't much of a problem with rounds like 7.62x39 (AK, SKS) because they are so tapered. Straighter walled rounds (5.56) have a much greater problem with this.

It is also a bit of a testament to the somewhat "self-cleaning" properties of a brass case. I've seen brass cased ammo that was fired through an AR after a session of steel cased shooting. The first brass cases fired were covered with fouling. Each round fired pulled out less and less until the chamber wasn't much dirtier than if the shooter had only been firing brass cased (I'm not mentioning the rest of the internals though).

The other thing to know is that the bullets are not copper jacketed lead like normal ammo. They are lead with a steel jacket that has a thin copper coating. Both the steel used in the casing and the steel used in the bullet jacket are "mild steel" so they're really quite soft, but they don't behave like normal bullets do, meaning that they don't expand or fragment reliably.

Sorry to be wordy. Again, nothing wrong with it for cheap plinking ammo as long as your firearm agrees with it and you don't mind extra cleaning.

[polishshooter]

Just for the record, I have bought several Mosin nagant cheap because the current owner said it had "headspace issues" because rounds were sticking. Some I had to HAMMER the bolt open after firing.

All you had to ask was "Do you shoot green lacquer steel case ammo in it?"

Headspace doesn't SHRINK, and rimmed rounds aren't a probem unless the bolt head "sets back," which NEVER happens on a Nagant.

So a 20 guage mop coated with 1200-1400 grit polishing compound on an old rod section attached to a drill is a great Mosin "Headspace" tool. Just keep it up till the green is gone.

If the lacquer will coat a Mosin Chamber, I see no reason why it WON'T coat an AR chamber. I'd love to see how they tested THAT.

I never shoot green lacquer coate ammo in my $100 Nagants, so I would NEVER shoot it in my Rock River. The gray stuff I DO put through my SKS though.

[GaCop]

I've used the polymer coated steel case Wolf in my 5.56 chamber carbine w/o any problems in the last five years. The round causing most issues is the laquered steel case military surplus stuff. The laquer melt and adheres to the chamber. when the chamber cools, the laquer hardens causing the next rounds to stick when shot. Laquer thinner does a quick job of cleaning out the laquer build up.

Tom

[gdmoody]

Originally Posted by gdmoody

I don't really recall having any particular problem with the steel cased stuff. If I get to go to the range tomorrow I will take some Tulammo with me and see what happens. I recently bought 500 rounds of it.

I was finally able to get to the range this morning. I took my AR and 500 rounds of the Tulammo with me. The ammo seemed to fire perfectly. I had so many problems with magazines I got tired of messing with the AR after 80 rounds.

I was ordering some Sig Sauer magazines from CDNN last week and while I was on their website I noticed they had had a special on 20 round AR15/M16 Thermold Magazines for $3.99 so I ordered three of them. What a piece of crap these things are. They do look great BUT that is about all. I loaded all three of them up with the Tulammo and started shooting. The first one functioned great with all twenty rounds without a problem. I inserted the second one and after the first round, the bolt would not strip any more rounds into the chamber. I had to pull and release the charging handle to get them to feed. Then it would work for a few rounds and it would somehow strip two rounds(?????) from the magazine. The same thing happened with the third magazine, it would fire a couple then I would have to use the charging handle again. I loaded the first one up and stuck it in, the same thing happened again!

If you see a deal on these Thermold magazines, pass on it. It is another case of you get what you pay for. Here is a link to them so you can see what they are: http://www.cdnninvestments.com/zzzar220thmi.html

I will make it to the range again to test the Russian ammo and I will take some real magazines with me next time.






You can read my range report on the Sig Sauer P238 in the 1911 forum.