german luger help - The Firearms Forum

chefandrew78 · 12-29-2009, 01:30 PM

Good Afternoon,
I recently inherited this Luger from my father. He recieved it from my grandfather. My grandfather fought in WW2 in the army. While over sees he aquired a luger, german flag, binoculars, beret and a few other articles from a soldier. So far I have the binoculars and the luger, trying to get the other items from my family members.
So with that said I am trying to get some history details on the gun. I noticed that some of the numbers do not match there are mostly 44sn numbers and a couple 43sn numbers. Please excuse my ignorance on the part names. Here are some pics below. My intentions are to have the gun be 100% matching in numbers. Also about 15 years ago my father and i took the gun to the range to fire it and it does fire. Never restored from what I can tell.

Finally, what is this item worth? What is the best way to store it?

Thank you for your time.

chefandrew78 · 12-29-2009, 01:34 PM

I have also read that there are different lugers, soldier and police. I have looked all over the holster and have not found any markings or impressions. The holster is black in color. as well. Thanks. Andrew

gdmoody · 12-30-2009, 12:26 AM

Welcome to the forum Andrew.

About all I can tell is that it was manufactured at the Erfert Arsenal and it has some military proof marks on the frame and tt has mismatched serial numbers. With that being said, just about any Luger is probably worth a grand!

Does it have a date above the chamber and what does it say under the safety lever when put in the down position?

Jim K · 12-30-2009, 03:32 PM

That is a military pistol. The problem is that the Erfurt toggle does not match the receiver or barrel. Erfurt was a government (originally an Imperial Prussian) arsenal; it was the site of one of the only three original installations of Luger tooling, the others being the DWM factory and the Swiss arsenal at Bern.

The three markings are millitary inspection marks, applied to the pistol before final finish and bluing. They signify inspection and approval of 1) the receiver alone, 2) the barrelled receiver, and 3) the entire pistol. The letters are the initials of the inspectors, but their identity has long been lost. The eagle is the Reichsadler or Imperial Eagle, signifying that the pistol had undergone final proof and test firing and was accepted for service.

The gun has parts from at least two pistols; those with "44" are probably from the gun numbered 1644, which seems to be the number on the grip frame (there should be a following letter; the other parts are from a gun with a serial number having "43" as the last two digits.

I wish you luck in finding parts numbered "44" to replace the "43" parts (no, the factory did not make a mistake, though some German soldiers might have). At one time, some of the Luger collectors tried to set up a "parts exchange", but I don't know if they were successful. The mismatched magazine is common; matching magazines are desireable and add to a gun's value, but are not worth worrying a lot about.

Do not try to "touch it up" or have it reblued. That would cut the value in half.

The gun is in good shape, and while mismatched, would likely bring close to the $1000 mentioned, at least with the holster, which would bring $100+ by itself.

Do NOT store the gun in the holster or gun "rug". Storage is best in a box, in a dry area; if in a safe, use a "golden rod" or similar dehumidifier. Boxes can be obtained from Roberts Arms Specialties, rspatola@intrepid.net or 304-728-4472. Some folks store guns in zip lock baggies, which are inert and afford a degree of protection, then in a box. In any case oil the gun well with a good gun oil or something like G96 Gun Treatment before storing.

Jim

chefandrew78 · 12-30-2009, 06:11 PM

Thank you guys for your input and advise. I am most interested in returning it to original matching form rather than sell (memory of gramps). I will snap a shot of the binoculars and post them up as well. Could you point me in the direction of possibly trading or buying "44" parts. I will definately not try and clean it up. I will follow your instructions on Storage. Might put it in a shadow box and display it next to my Japanese Noodle Cleaver.

gdmoody · 12-31-2009, 01:23 AM

Just like Jim says, your chance of finding the parts with "44" is probably about the same as me winning the lottery.

I am sure that gramps bought it just like it is, so why change it?

chefandrew78 · 12-31-2009, 09:48 AM

hey gd,
are there sites for buying german luger parts or gunsmiths that work on them?
Thanks Andrew

gdmoody · 12-31-2009, 11:18 AM

Not that I am aware of. Someone else might know. A fellow by the name of Danny is the resident expert on Lugers, maybe he will come along and be able to help you some.

Road America · 01-01-2010, 08:00 AM

That's a nice Luger, you should leave it the way it is and just take good care of it! As far as finding parts with the right numbers-- the reason collectors want this is because that means the gun has the same parts it was made with, it's still in the original configuration. To replace parts with other ones that have the right number is just "fooling" history, those are just the last two digits of a completly different serial number. Who knows how or why some of your parts got changed, but it's just part of that gun's history.

chefandrew78 · 01-01-2010, 12:10 PM

GD, I will try to look for Danny, Thanks!

Road America. I really never thought of it like that. Great advise. Thank you.

wonderwhippet · 01-01-2010, 03:48 PM

Finding parts with the correct number will do you no good, as important parts are usually hand fitted to the pistol. Furthermore, you have an Erfurt pistol, and every part on an Erfurt, even the grip screws have an Erfurt proof mark. I notice this mark is missing on many of the parts of your Luger, so as far as restoring this pistol it is a real basket case. You will never find parts with the number you are looking for that also bear an Erfurt proof mark. As it stands, it is a shooter, not a collectible, and it never will be. If you want to go to a forum which deals in Lugers and parts, go to: http://www.lugerforum.com/

Danny · 01-02-2010, 11:35 PM

You have a very nice Luger rig there. Tom Heller at hellerarms@webtv.net should have everything you need to match each part with correct #. You can contact him at 636-447-3006. He is a super nice guy & will treat you right.
Kindest Regards
Danny

chefandrew78 · 01-03-2010, 10:47 AM

thank you Danny, I heard you were the one to find. Thank you for your help. Any idea what it would cost to make the numbers match? Worth it or leave it as is?
Thanks

12-29-2009, 01:30 PM	#1
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	german luger help Good Afternoon, I recently inherited this Luger from my father. He recieved it from my grandfather. My grandfather fought in WW2 in the army. While over sees he aquired a luger, german flag, binoculars, beret and a few other articles from a soldier. So far I have the binoculars and the luger, trying to get the other items from my family members. So with that said I am trying to get some history details on the gun. I noticed that some of the numbers do not match there are mostly 44sn numbers and a couple 43sn numbers. Please excuse my ignorance on the part names. Here are some pics below. My intentions are to have the gun be 100% matching in numbers. Also about 15 years ago my father and i took the gun to the range to fire it and it does fire. Never restored from what I can tell. Finally, what is this item worth? What is the best way to store it? Thank you for your time. -->

12-29-2009, 01:34 PM	#2
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	Re: german luger help I have also read that there are different lugers, soldier and police. I have looked all over the holster and have not found any markings or impressions. The holster is black in color. as well. Thanks. Andrew

12-30-2009, 12:26 AM	#3
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,358	Re: german luger help Welcome to the forum Andrew. About all I can tell is that it was manufactured at the Erfert Arsenal and it has some military proof marks on the frame and tt has mismatched serial numbers. With that being said, just about any Luger is probably worth a grand! Does it have a date above the chamber and what does it say under the safety lever when put in the down position? __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-30-2009, 03:32 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: german luger help That is a military pistol. The problem is that the Erfurt toggle does not match the receiver or barrel. Erfurt was a government (originally an Imperial Prussian) arsenal; it was the site of one of the only three original installations of Luger tooling, the others being the DWM factory and the Swiss arsenal at Bern. The three markings are millitary inspection marks, applied to the pistol before final finish and bluing. They signify inspection and approval of 1) the receiver alone, 2) the barrelled receiver, and 3) the entire pistol. The letters are the initials of the inspectors, but their identity has long been lost. The eagle is the Reichsadler or Imperial Eagle, signifying that the pistol had undergone final proof and test firing and was accepted for service. The gun has parts from at least two pistols; those with "44" are probably from the gun numbered 1644, which seems to be the number on the grip frame (there should be a following letter; the other parts are from a gun with a serial number having "43" as the last two digits. I wish you luck in finding parts numbered "44" to replace the "43" parts (no, the factory did not make a mistake, though some German soldiers might have). At one time, some of the Luger collectors tried to set up a "parts exchange", but I don't know if they were successful. The mismatched magazine is common; matching magazines are desireable and add to a gun's value, but are not worth worrying a lot about. Do not try to "touch it up" or have it reblued. That would cut the value in half. The gun is in good shape, and while mismatched, would likely bring close to the $1000 mentioned, at least with the holster, which would bring $100+ by itself. Do NOT store the gun in the holster or gun "rug". Storage is best in a box, in a dry area; if in a safe, use a "golden rod" or similar dehumidifier. Boxes can be obtained from Roberts Arms Specialties, rspatola@intrepid.net or 304-728-4472. Some folks store guns in zip lock baggies, which are inert and afford a degree of protection, then in a box. In any case oil the gun well with a good gun oil or something like G96 Gun Treatment before storing. Jim

12-30-2009, 06:11 PM	#5
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	Re: german luger help Thank you guys for your input and advise. I am most interested in returning it to original matching form rather than sell (memory of gramps). I will snap a shot of the binoculars and post them up as well. Could you point me in the direction of possibly trading or buying "44" parts. I will definately not try and clean it up. I will follow your instructions on Storage. Might put it in a shadow box and display it next to my Japanese Noodle Cleaver.

12-31-2009, 01:23 AM	#6
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,358	Re: german luger help Just like Jim says, your chance of finding the parts with "44" is probably about the same as me winning the lottery. I am sure that gramps bought it just like it is, so why change it? __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-31-2009, 09:48 AM	#7
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	Re: german luger help hey gd, are there sites for buying german luger parts or gunsmiths that work on them? Thanks Andrew

12-31-2009, 11:18 AM	#8
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,358	Re: german luger help Not that I am aware of. Someone else might know. A fellow by the name of Danny is the resident expert on Lugers, maybe he will come along and be able to help you some. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

01-01-2010, 08:00 AM	#9
Road America V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 177	Re: german luger help That's a nice Luger, you should leave it the way it is and just take good care of it! As far as finding parts with the right numbers-- the reason collectors want this is because that means the gun has the same parts it was made with, it's still in the original configuration. To replace parts with other ones that have the right number is just "fooling" history, those are just the last two digits of a completly different serial number. Who knows how or why some of your parts got changed, but it's just part of that gun's history.

01-01-2010, 12:10 PM	#10
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	Re: german luger help GD, I will try to look for Danny, Thanks! Road America. I really never thought of it like that. Great advise. Thank you.

01-01-2010, 03:48 PM	#11
wonderwhippet Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,587	Re: german luger help Finding parts with the correct number will do you no good, as important parts are usually hand fitted to the pistol. Furthermore, you have an Erfurt pistol, and every part on an Erfurt, even the grip screws have an Erfurt proof mark. I notice this mark is missing on many of the parts of your Luger, so as far as restoring this pistol it is a real basket case. You will never find parts with the number you are looking for that also bear an Erfurt proof mark. As it stands, it is a shooter, not a collectible, and it never will be. If you want to go to a forum which deals in Lugers and parts, go to: http://www.lugerforum.com/

01-02-2010, 11:35 PM	#12
Danny Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Va Contributor Posts: 594	Re: german luger help You have a very nice Luger rig there. Tom Heller at hellerarms@webtv.net should have everything you need to match each part with correct #. You can contact him at 636-447-3006. He is a super nice guy & will treat you right. Kindest Regards Danny __________________ THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY. AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED & DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO & VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY...TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY.

01-03-2010, 10:47 AM	#13
chefandrew78 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6	Re: german luger help thank you Danny, I heard you were the one to find. Thank you for your help. Any idea what it would cost to make the numbers match? Worth it or leave it as is? Thanks