Hardness of .38WC - The Firearms Forum

zant · 09-06-2012, 11:11 AM

In another thread-Alpo said all factory lead bullets are swaged....A retiring gunsmith gave me 5000-.38 HBWC....Zero brand....I'm going to keep 1k for my .38s but wanted to melt rest for casting-what hardness are they now?How much tin would I have to add(per lb)to make them hard enough to cast for 45/70 at about 1400fps?Can I use as they are for a muzzleloader??Thx

243winxb · 09-06-2012, 07:09 PM

Add Linotype to the swaged bullets. 3 lbs bullets and 1 lb. linotype for the 45/70. For the muzzleloader, pure lead is best, but the plain bullet alloy is worth a try. I would guess they have about 2% antimony. A 1 to 1 mix of pure lead & linotype gives a BHN of 15. If only using tin, 10 lead & 1 tin for a BHN of 11.5 Antimony is the cheapest metal to harden, when compared to tin. But all alloy should have 2% tin for high velocity loadings.

JLA · 09-06-2012, 07:28 PM

I think theyd be OK for .45/70 at whatever hardness they are now. especially at that velocity. I find good lube is more important than bullet hardness.

Alpo · 09-06-2012, 07:47 PM

For a 45/70, to make the molds fill better, you want between 5 and 10% tin. A 10:1 to a 20:1 mix. If you get a one-pound bar (or spool, but bar solder is cheaper) of 50/50 solder and put it in a ten pound pot, you end up with 9 1/2 pounds of lead and a half pound of tin. 19:1. Oughta work fine.

zant · 09-07-2012, 11:08 AM

Thank you gentlemen,I can always depend on having dumb questions answered here

mikld · 09-07-2012, 02:54 PM

Hmmm, I thought Zero bullets were cast. Commercial cast bullets can run any BHN up to 18+ (just what I've seen). Swaged bullets, whether wadcutters or semi-wadcutters are usually soft (8-10 BHN).

243winxb · 09-07-2012, 07:01 PM

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant...y_Code=ZSB-38S Swaged

mikld · 09-08-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 243winxb

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant...y_Code=ZSB-38S Swaged

Yep, my thinkin' was off. Thnx...

noylj · 09-11-2012, 09:05 PM

Most current swaged bullets are about #2 Lyman alloy. Years ago they were almost pure lead.
Get a Lee hardness tester and have some idea of what alloy hardness you are using.
Almost all casters nowadays seem to be using excessively hard alloys.
Since leading isn't that hard to deal with, I have always started soft and worked up and found what worked best. 10-12 BHN works well for me in almost all my guns (by the time it is too soft, I am loading with gas checks and the soft bullets are just fine).

09-06-2012, 11:11 AM	#1
zant V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: S.Al Posts: 249	Hardness of .38WC In another thread-Alpo said all factory lead bullets are swaged....A retiring gunsmith gave me 5000-.38 HBWC....Zero brand....I'm going to keep 1k for my .38s but wanted to melt rest for casting-what hardness are they now?How much tin would I have to add(per lb)to make them hard enough to cast for 45/70 at about 1400fps?Can I use as they are for a muzzleloader??Thx -->

09-06-2012, 07:28 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,319	Re: Hardness of .38WC I think theyd be OK for .45/70 at whatever hardness they are now. especially at that velocity. I find good lube is more important than bullet hardness. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

09-06-2012, 07:47 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Hardness of .38WC For a 45/70, to make the molds fill better, you want between 5 and 10% tin. A 10:1 to a 20:1 mix. If you get a one-pound bar (or spool, but bar solder is cheaper) of 50/50 solder and put it in a ten pound pot, you end up with 9 1/2 pounds of lead and a half pound of tin. 19:1. Oughta work fine. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-07-2012, 11:08 AM	#5
zant V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: S.Al Posts: 249	Re: Hardness of .38WC Thank you gentlemen,I can always depend on having dumb questions answered here

09-07-2012, 02:54 PM	#6
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 573	Re: Hardness of .38WC Hmmm, I thought Zero bullets were cast. Commercial cast bullets can run any BHN up to 18+ (just what I've seen). Swaged bullets, whether wadcutters or semi-wadcutters are usually soft (8-10 BHN). __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.

09-06-2012, 07:09 PM	#2
243winxb V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: USA Posts: 106	Re: Hardness of .38WC Add Linotype to the swaged bullets. 3 lbs bullets and 1 lb. linotype for the 45/70. For the muzzleloader, pure lead is best, but the plain bullet alloy is worth a try. I would guess they have about 2% antimony. A 1 to 1 mix of pure lead & linotype gives a BHN of 15. If only using tin, 10 lead & 1 tin for a BHN of 11.5 Antimony is the cheapest metal to harden, when compared to tin. But all alloy should have 2% tin for high velocity loadings. Last edited by 243winxb; 09-06-2012 at 07:13 PM..

09-07-2012, 07:01 PM	#7
243winxb V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: USA Posts: 106	Re: Hardness of .38WC http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant...y_Code=ZSB-38S Swaged

09-11-2012, 09:05 PM	#9
noylj V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 113	Re: Hardness of .38WC Most current swaged bullets are about #2 Lyman alloy. Years ago they were almost pure lead. Get a Lee hardness tester and have some idea of what alloy hardness you are using. Almost all casters nowadays seem to be using excessively hard alloys. Since leading isn't that hard to deal with, I have always started soft and worked up and found what worked best. 10-12 BHN works well for me in almost all my guns (by the time it is too soft, I am loading with gas checks and the soft bullets are just fine).