Young America .22 Question - The Firearms Forum

grover26 · 03-24-2012, 09:58 PM

What is the difference between an H&R Young American .22 'Black Powder' and 'Smokeless Powder' pull-pin revolver? Is it only the cylinder and possibly the barrel, or is the frame also stronger due to design or materials? Reason I'm asking is that I have a very good 'Black Powder' model....indexes well, tight lock-up. I also have a cylinder and barrel from a 'Smokeless' donor gun. Would swapping out these parts, in essence, result in a 'Smokeless' gun capable of safely firing modern ammo? Of course, this is assuming the gun is in sound firing order.

RJay · 03-24-2012, 10:09 PM

The frame takes as much , if not more, of the stress of firring than the barrel or cylinder. There are a lot of old guns around that have been shot " loose " by firing modern ammo. The cylinders and barrels still look OK, but frame has stretched and even cracked.

grover26 · 03-25-2012, 12:07 AM

Thanks for the info, Ron. So I guess the frames of the 'smokless' era guns, though they look similar to the black powder models, are actually of stronger construction.

Jim Hauff · 03-25-2012, 08:52 AM

From what research I've done recently - most manufacturers, including H&R, determined the need to improve the strength (metallurgical properties) of their firearms when the smokeless/Nitro based powders began to enter the scene in the 1880's and '90's. H&R changed some metal formulations and began special heat treating of the forged barrels and cylinders to withstand the sharper pressue spike with smokeless. I don't know what they did with the cast frames. It must have taken them some time and experimentation (H&R and others) to come up with the proper treatments because I can see signs of changes occuring before H&R officially declared their guns capable in the 1905 era.
I have seen a "few" .22 caliber older/turn of the century guns, including H&R .22s with blown cylinders. As RJay states, the frames take some shock, also - don't really know how many rounds it would take to deform a solid frame, guess it would all be luck of the draw.

RJay · 03-25-2012, 04:49 PM

Gentleman Jim, If it were mine I would use CB Shorts, the CB Shorts have no powder, only a primer and the pressure curve is next to non existent. I've shot a number of my old .22s using them. What say you, good or bad?

Jim Hauff · 03-26-2012, 08:37 AM

Rjay,
I take pleasure in shooting the AQUILA Colibris or Super Colibris - just to test fire some of the old clunkers - same concept as your shorts (the cartridges that is) and just a bit more ooomph - so the projectile clears the porch railing. I'm with ya, brother.

grover26 · 03-26-2012, 01:00 PM

Thanks again for your input. Even if I did the 'conversion'...cylinder and barrel... I was still only going to fire CB's or similar, and just a handful. I was just hoping to achieve a little more in the way of safety.

RJay · 03-26-2012, 03:09 PM

grover26, If your revolver is tight and in good repair I don't believe CB type .22's will harm it. The CB Shorts have no powder and the others have only 1 grain. The strain on your gun would be negligible. JMHO

03-24-2012, 09:58 PM	#1
grover26 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6	Young America .22 Question What is the difference between an H&R Young American .22 'Black Powder' and 'Smokeless Powder' pull-pin revolver? Is it only the cylinder and possibly the barrel, or is the frame also stronger due to design or materials? Reason I'm asking is that I have a very good 'Black Powder' model....indexes well, tight lock-up. I also have a cylinder and barrel from a 'Smokeless' donor gun. Would swapping out these parts, in essence, result in a 'Smokeless' gun capable of safely firing modern ammo? Of course, this is assuming the gun is in sound firing order. -->

03-24-2012, 10:09 PM	#2
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,500	Re: Young America .22 Question The frame takes as much , if not more, of the stress of firring than the barrel or cylinder. There are a lot of old guns around that have been shot " loose " by firing modern ammo. The cylinders and barrels still look OK, but frame has stretched and even cracked. __________________ RonJames

03-25-2012, 12:07 AM	#3
grover26 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Young America .22 Question Thanks for the info, Ron. So I guess the frames of the 'smokless' era guns, though they look similar to the black powder models, are actually of stronger construction.

03-25-2012, 08:52 AM	#4
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Young America .22 Question From what research I've done recently - most manufacturers, including H&R, determined the need to improve the strength (metallurgical properties) of their firearms when the smokeless/Nitro based powders began to enter the scene in the 1880's and '90's. H&R changed some metal formulations and began special heat treating of the forged barrels and cylinders to withstand the sharper pressue spike with smokeless. I don't know what they did with the cast frames. It must have taken them some time and experimentation (H&R and others) to come up with the proper treatments because I can see signs of changes occuring before H&R officially declared their guns capable in the 1905 era. I have seen a "few" .22 caliber older/turn of the century guns, including H&R .22s with blown cylinders. As RJay states, the frames take some shock, also - don't really know how many rounds it would take to deform a solid frame, guess it would all be luck of the draw. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

03-25-2012, 04:49 PM	#5
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,500	Re: Young America .22 Question Gentleman Jim, If it were mine I would use CB Shorts, the CB Shorts have no powder, only a primer and the pressure curve is next to non existent. I've shot a number of my old .22s using them. What say you, good or bad? __________________ RonJames

03-26-2012, 08:37 AM	#6
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Young America .22 Question Rjay, I take pleasure in shooting the AQUILA Colibris or Super Colibris - just to test fire some of the old clunkers - same concept as your shorts (the cartridges that is) and just a bit more ooomph - so the projectile clears the porch railing. I'm with ya, brother. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

03-26-2012, 01:00 PM	#7
grover26 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Young America .22 Question Thanks again for your input. Even if I did the 'conversion'...cylinder and barrel... I was still only going to fire CB's or similar, and just a handful. I was just hoping to achieve a little more in the way of safety.

03-26-2012, 03:09 PM	#8
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,500	Re: Young America .22 Question grover26, If your revolver is tight and in good repair I don't believe CB type .22's will harm it. The CB Shorts have no powder and the others have only 1 grain. The strain on your gun would be negligible. JMHO __________________ RonJames