Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless - The Firearms Forum

ford · 05-10-2012, 01:12 PM

I have a Colt Pocket Hammer .38, that I inherited and don't know anything about it.

The serial number is 403xx - (don't have it in front of me to get exact number). It's in good condition, other than the blueing has faded. Grips are in great shape.

My understanding is that ammo is a challenge to find and expensive. Given that, I don't think I'll keep it as I'm not a collector.

Any idea what the gun is worth, and/or what I could realisticly expect to get for it?

Thanks for the help!

Lanrezac · 05-10-2012, 05:22 PM

All of these old Colt automatics are worth decent money if they are in decent shape, but it has been 80 to 100 years since they were made, and a lot can happen to a gun in that time. To get a really useful estimate on your particular gun, could you post photos of it? Both sides and the magazine would be good.

You have to remember that if you sell it to a dealer, he is going to want to buy it for 'wholesale' so he can sell it for 'retail'. If you sell it yourself, like on one of the Internet gun auction websites, you can get 'retail', but there are costs involved in that, too.

You are right about the ammo being scarce. Your gun uses 38 ACP (ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol), and I am not sure anyone makes it any more. A much more powerful cartridge called 38 Super will fit in your gun, and will also damage it and possibly you.

All this is just my $.02; I hope people who know better or think differently will chime in soon.

Jim K · 05-10-2012, 05:59 PM

If you decide to take down that pistol, do NOT try to drive out the wedge. Push in on the concave plug under the muzzle and turn the pistol on its left side and the wedge should fall out. And a big second to Lanrezac on NOT using .38 Super (nickel plated cases) in that gun. If you can't find .38 ACP, do not fire it at all.

Jim

Hammerslagger · 05-10-2012, 10:44 PM

Your pistol was likely made in 1918; thus about 94 years old.

Depending on condition, it could be worth a few hundred to more than $2K, depending on how badly a collector wants it.

DO NOT FIRE IT WITH ANY AMMO MARKED .38 SUPER on the box or, more importantly, on the primer end of the cartridge case. Doing so will quickly damage the pistol as the "Super" cartridge produces much higher pressure and ballistic power.

Frankly, I have reached the point where I do not recommend firing many 80 plus year old handguns and shotguns for fear of breaking (or cracking) a part and devaluing the gun.

Hope this info is useful.

Jim K · 05-11-2012, 12:14 PM

Parts are often available for the old "parallel ruler" Colts. A year or so ago, I bought one of those M1903 hammer models that had a home-made firing pin. I ordered one from Gun Parts Corp. and was astonished to receive an original, bronze firing pin, in the waxed cloth wrapping, just as Colt made it at least 70 years ago.

Jim

rhmc24 · 05-12-2012, 05:28 AM

Your description "blueing has faded" leaves much to imagination. If the blue is mostly gone value at auction would be about $600, value increases with better condition up to around $1500 for one in exceptional used condition.

ford · 05-13-2012, 07:37 PM

I understand that you can't really give an accurate valuation of the gun without seeing it in person. I have a few pics that I took with my phone camera and it's not the best.

I understand about using .38 acp ammo and have no intention of either firing the weapon or stripping it down. I inherited the gun and I'm not a collector. I've always prefered owning something that I can use.

I'm having trouble figuring out to post pics here. It looks lik it wants an http location whcih means I'd have to have the pics stored someplace on the web? Can anybody help me?

Thanks to everyone for the information provided here so far.

Jim K · 05-13-2012, 07:43 PM

No, if you have the pictures in your MyPictures file, you can reply, then hit GO ADVANCED, then MANAGE ATTACHMENTS. There are four blanks; hit BROWSE, find your picture file and click to open the picture. That will upload the picture to the site as an attachement to your post. You can attach four pictures per post.

Jim

Hammerslagger · 05-13-2012, 08:48 PM

I have found that the best way to get a realistic idea of what an item will sell for is to sign up with various major Internet auctions that deal in the type of goods under consideration. Relative to firearms, there are at least two big auction firms that can be easily located from any major search engine.

Once you get signed up, you can usually view current auctions and recent sales of similar goods. It matters not what someone asks for an item. All that matters is what near identical items are actually currently selling for.

Hope this is useful.

ford · 05-15-2012, 10:57 AM

Here's a few pics o th Colt. Not the greatest pictures, but maybe it will give you moreof an idea of the condition ofthe gun.

Hammerslagger · 05-15-2012, 12:05 PM

Except for one spot on the slide near the ejection port, you have an overall "Excellent" condition gun, inferring from the photos. Today, such guns are rarely encountered outside of serious collectors' collections.

This gun should bring near top dollar from a collector who wants it.

Do not do anything to it to try to improve it, other than keeping its metal parts oiled. Leave the accumulated lint around the grip screw heads. It does not devalue anything; and speaks to your claims for it.

texasleaguer · 05-16-2012, 07:27 PM

not mentioned but very important. Is the magazine original to the gun? if it isn't, it'll cause a big deduction in price.

Jim K · 05-16-2012, 10:48 PM

No way to tell unless the magazine is after-market or in a condition not consistent with the gun. Colt mags were not numbered to the gun, so if it is an original mag from an early Colt, there would be no way to tell if it was original to the gun. (Unless it is too early, like with a Diss patent marking.)

Jim

ford · 05-21-2012, 09:53 AM

Thanks for everone's help. The gun belonged to my dad who just passed away. I was/am familiar with the rifles that he owned, but this gun came as a surprise. I didn't know he owned it until recently when we started going through some things. As I mentioned, I'm not a collector so I won't be keeping it.

Lanrezac · 05-21-2012, 03:06 PM

That gun will make some collector very happy, ford. Thanks for showing it to us.

PS - I sent you a private message today.

Hammerslagger · 05-21-2012, 03:26 PM

You might want to check the current edition (2012) of S P Fjestad's "Blue Book of Gun Values" for a 98% condition model 1903 .38 ACP as a start.

Next, take your time and see what similar goods (but likely lesser finish retention) are actually being bid for at the big Internet gun auctions.

You might try investigating, working with a local (or not too distant) upscale gun shop that does consignment sales. Cabela's (if there is one near to you) does them, reluctantly.

Sometimes it is better to pay a 10% to 20% commission and get a top dollar retail sale, than it is to try to sell a gun on the Internet or privately in a newspaper. Internet and newspaper sales have many pitfalls.

Good luck; hope this is useful.

ford · 05-25-2012, 01:00 PM

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the comments and suggestions.

My dad used to have some pretty nice guns, but as he got a lot older he slowly got rid of most of them. One of my favorites was a Remington Fireball (.222 I think) that had a serial number less than 100. My bought it for him for Christmas and I remember watching him as he unwrapped it and held it up. I was just a kid, this was in the early 60's, and I thought it was the coolest looking gun ever.

thanks again.

05-10-2012, 01:12 PM	#1
ford Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 5	Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless I have a Colt Pocket Hammer .38, that I inherited and don't know anything about it. The serial number is 403xx - (don't have it in front of me to get exact number). It's in good condition, other than the blueing has faded. Grips are in great shape. My understanding is that ammo is a challenge to find and expensive. Given that, I don't think I'll keep it as I'm not a collector. Any idea what the gun is worth, and/or what I could realisticly expect to get for it? Thanks for the help! -->

05-10-2012, 05:22 PM	#2
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 699	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless All of these old Colt automatics are worth decent money if they are in decent shape, but it has been 80 to 100 years since they were made, and a lot can happen to a gun in that time. To get a really useful estimate on your particular gun, could you post photos of it? Both sides and the magazine would be good. You have to remember that if you sell it to a dealer, he is going to want to buy it for 'wholesale' so he can sell it for 'retail'. If you sell it yourself, like on one of the Internet gun auction websites, you can get 'retail', but there are costs involved in that, too. You are right about the ammo being scarce. Your gun uses 38 ACP (ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol), and I am not sure anyone makes it any more. A much more powerful cartridge called 38 Super will fit in your gun, and will also damage it and possibly you. All this is just my $.02; I hope people who know better or think differently will chime in soon.

05-10-2012, 05:59 PM	#3
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless If you decide to take down that pistol, do NOT try to drive out the wedge. Push in on the concave plug under the muzzle and turn the pistol on its left side and the wedge should fall out. And a big second to Lanrezac on NOT using .38 Super (nickel plated cases) in that gun. If you can't find .38 ACP, do not fire it at all. Jim

05-10-2012, 10:44 PM	#4
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Your pistol was likely made in 1918; thus about 94 years old. Depending on condition, it could be worth a few hundred to more than $2K, depending on how badly a collector wants it. DO NOT FIRE IT WITH ANY AMMO MARKED .38 SUPER on the box or, more importantly, on the primer end of the cartridge case. Doing so will quickly damage the pistol as the "Super" cartridge produces much higher pressure and ballistic power. Frankly, I have reached the point where I do not recommend firing many 80 plus year old handguns and shotguns for fear of breaking (or cracking) a part and devaluing the gun. Hope this info is useful.

05-11-2012, 12:14 PM	#5
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Parts are often available for the old "parallel ruler" Colts. A year or so ago, I bought one of those M1903 hammer models that had a home-made firing pin. I ordered one from Gun Parts Corp. and was astonished to receive an original, bronze firing pin, in the waxed cloth wrapping, just as Colt made it at least 70 years ago. Jim

05-12-2012, 05:28 AM	#6
rhmc24 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 530	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Your description "blueing has faded" leaves much to imagination. If the blue is mostly gone value at auction would be about $600, value increases with better condition up to around $1500 for one in exceptional used condition.

05-13-2012, 07:37 PM	#7
ford Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 5	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless I understand that you can't really give an accurate valuation of the gun without seeing it in person. I have a few pics that I took with my phone camera and it's not the best. I understand about using .38 acp ammo and have no intention of either firing the weapon or stripping it down. I inherited the gun and I'm not a collector. I've always prefered owning something that I can use. I'm having trouble figuring out to post pics here. It looks lik it wants an http location whcih means I'd have to have the pics stored someplace on the web? Can anybody help me? Thanks to everyone for the information provided here so far.

05-13-2012, 07:43 PM	#8
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless No, if you have the pictures in your MyPictures file, you can reply, then hit GO ADVANCED, then MANAGE ATTACHMENTS. There are four blanks; hit BROWSE, find your picture file and click to open the picture. That will upload the picture to the site as an attachement to your post. You can attach four pictures per post. Jim

05-13-2012, 08:48 PM	#9
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless I have found that the best way to get a realistic idea of what an item will sell for is to sign up with various major Internet auctions that deal in the type of goods under consideration. Relative to firearms, there are at least two big auction firms that can be easily located from any major search engine. Once you get signed up, you can usually view current auctions and recent sales of similar goods. It matters not what someone asks for an item. All that matters is what near identical items are actually currently selling for. Hope this is useful.

05-15-2012, 10:57 AM	#10
ford Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 5	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Here's a few pics o th Colt. Not the greatest pictures, but maybe it will give you moreof an idea of the condition ofthe gun. Attached Images

05-15-2012, 12:05 PM	#11
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Except for one spot on the slide near the ejection port, you have an overall "Excellent" condition gun, inferring from the photos. Today, such guns are rarely encountered outside of serious collectors' collections. This gun should bring near top dollar from a collector who wants it. Do not do anything to it to try to improve it, other than keeping its metal parts oiled. Leave the accumulated lint around the grip screw heads. It does not devalue anything; and speaks to your claims for it. Last edited by Hammerslagger; 05-15-2012 at 12:08 PM.. Reason: Add comment

05-16-2012, 07:27 PM	#12
texasleaguer Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless not mentioned but very important. Is the magazine original to the gun? if it isn't, it'll cause a big deduction in price.

05-16-2012, 10:48 PM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless No way to tell unless the magazine is after-market or in a condition not consistent with the gun. Colt mags were not numbered to the gun, so if it is an original mag from an early Colt, there would be no way to tell if it was original to the gun. (Unless it is too early, like with a Diss patent marking.) Jim

05-21-2012, 09:53 AM	#14
ford Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 5	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Thanks for everone's help. The gun belonged to my dad who just passed away. I was/am familiar with the rifles that he owned, but this gun came as a surprise. I didn't know he owned it until recently when we started going through some things. As I mentioned, I'm not a collector so I won't be keeping it.

05-21-2012, 03:06 PM	#15
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 699	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless That gun will make some collector very happy, ford. Thanks for showing it to us. PS - I sent you a private message today. Last edited by Lanrezac; 05-21-2012 at 03:13 PM..

05-21-2012, 03:26 PM	#16
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless You might want to check the current edition (2012) of S P Fjestad's "Blue Book of Gun Values" for a 98% condition model 1903 .38 ACP as a start. Next, take your time and see what similar goods (but likely lesser finish retention) are actually being bid for at the big Internet gun auctions. You might try investigating, working with a local (or not too distant) upscale gun shop that does consignment sales. Cabela's (if there is one near to you) does them, reluctantly. Sometimes it is better to pay a 10% to 20% commission and get a top dollar retail sale, than it is to try to sell a gun on the Internet or privately in a newspaper. Internet and newspaper sales have many pitfalls. Good luck; hope this is useful.

05-25-2012, 01:00 PM	#17
ford Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 5	Re: Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP - Rimless Smokeless Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the comments and suggestions. My dad used to have some pretty nice guns, but as he got a lot older he slowly got rid of most of them. One of my favorites was a Remington Fireball (.222 I think) that had a serial number less than 100. My bought it for him for Christmas and I remember watching him as he unwrapped it and held it up. I was just a kid, this was in the early 60's, and I thought it was the coolest looking gun ever. thanks again.