Spontaneous Discharge - The Firearms Forum

RimfireRat · 12-23-2006, 12:37 PM

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092 Safety still locked and discharged rd. still in the bbl. Very interesting read. --JMJ--

Nighthawk · 12-23-2006, 01:15 PM

interesting read

TTUshooter · 12-23-2006, 02:13 PM

crazy stuff...

VegasTech702 · 12-23-2006, 02:36 PM

If you look at the physics of it, it makes perfect sense. You are talking about a giant electro magnet... I bet the officer never does that again. I still don't know if I would want to carry a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked every day in every circumstance in cond 1. I think that my pistols that have a revolving trigger and firing pin disconnect are much safer than that of a 1911. yes, I do carry my Beretta 92FS and Bersa T380 with safety on and one in the chamber. I also open carry, so if I were the victim of a gun grab, I would have a chance at not getting immediately shot because the thief would have to disengage the safety.

Shooter45 · 12-23-2006, 04:36 PM

After reading this article five times, it still sounds like BS to me.

The 1991 A-1 has three safetys and all were working ??? And the weapon still discharged ????

southernshooter · 12-23-2006, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the link but like Shooter said I would take this with a grain of salt

RimfireRat · 12-23-2006, 10:13 PM

You have to realize the power of the giant electro magnet. Before you go for a MRI they want to be sure you don't have any pieces of metal in your body.Many times if your not sure you need Xrays. So not to heat up or move and cause injury or death. Alot of this is beyond the average guys understanding. ---JMJ--

Ursus · 12-24-2006, 07:55 AM

It sounds possible, but I wouldn't call it spontaneous, as an external force caused the gun to fire. If you drop a gun and it fires, that's an ACCIDENTAL not an spontaneous discharge. The headline looks tendencious to me.

RimfireRat · 12-24-2006, 01:18 PM

By Websters>--- Spontaneous; 5 : developing or occurring without apparent external influence, force, cause, or treatment. -Well the trigger wasn't pulled or the safwtly taken off?? --- Accidental; 2 a : occurring unexpectedly or by chance b : happening without intent or through carelessness and often with unfortunate results , So how to decide which? the magnet would have been an exrernal force,no? but it wouldn't to the eye appear to be apparant. ...as to Accidental, the gun was carried into the MRI lab without intent or through carelessness and did cause unfortunate results. So it seems you might be able to say it was a spontaneous discharge caused by an accidental action.Or something like that.

--JMJ--

Marlin · 12-24-2006, 07:25 PM

As the ole saying goes, "I'm from Missouri" until someone can come up with a more definitive causation.....

durk · 12-24-2006, 11:04 PM

Ok, after reading the link I am a bit confused about the hammer still cocked back when they found the gun against the magnet. Why is there a hammer on this gun if you don't need one to fire it?

I thought the pressure of the falling hammer had something to do with the fireing of the gun. No?

Ursus · 12-25-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RimfireRat

By Websters>--- Spontaneous; 5 : developing or occurring without apparent external influence, force, cause, or treatment. the magnet would have been an exrernal force,no?

Yes, it was an external influence. Ergo, it was not spontaneus

Xracer · 12-25-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durk

Ok, after reading the link I am a bit confused about the hammer still cocked back when they found the gun against the magnet. Why is there a hammer on this gun if you don't need one to fire it?

I thought the pressure of the falling hammer had something to do with the fireing of the gun. No?

"The pistol was likely drawn into the magnetic field so that the muzzle struck the magnet's bore first. With the firing pin allowed to move freely in its channel, the force of the impact on the muzzle end was sufficient to cause the firing pin to overcome its spring pressure and move forward to strike the primer of the chambered round."

The M1911 has an inertial firing pin. With the firing pin block deactivated, a sharp rap on the muzzle end of the gun could drive the firing pin forward into the cartridge primer, thus firing the weapon.

Since the thumb safety locks both the hammer and slide, it was still engaged and held the hammer back, and the slide in the locked position.

durk · 12-25-2006, 08:21 PM

It sounds like things had to happen just right for this to take place. Would this be 1 in a million or more? It would seem that there is not much room in one of those machines for the gun to pick up much speed before hitting the sidewall with a whole lot of force. I dunno, very weird.

RimfireRat · 12-26-2006, 07:33 PM

Xracer and durks last post have it about right. did you ever notice how a small magnet can pull a smaller piece ot metal to it so quicly? Now make that magnet the size of a car and try to imagine how quickly and with what force that gun might have been pulled against that magnet. remember the guy was what? around 3 ' away. I can imagine that gun was out of his hand and into that machine so fast you never saw it go. Anyway I thought it was interesting,

--JMJ--

Light Coat · 12-27-2006, 12:10 AM

I just finished giving my cutaway a good beating. The firing pin was most likely pulled to the rear of the case from the velocity and impact brought on by the magnet. To this time I have seen no affect on ammunition itself from magnetic influence.

As a side issue I will warn you to never store ammunition and batteries in close proximity. I know of one case of shotgun shells being fired by a 9volt stored in the same bag when someone was on a hunting trip.

durk · 12-27-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light Coat

As a side issue I will warn you to never store ammunition and batteries in close proximity. I know of one case of shotgun shells being fired by a 9volt stored in the same bag when someone was on a hunting trip.

Good to know.

12-23-2006, 12:37 PM	#1
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Spontaneous Discharge http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092 Safety still locked and discharged rd. still in the bbl. Very interesting read. --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W. -->

12-23-2006, 01:15 PM	#2
Nighthawk Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Central Texas Posts: 3,330	Re: Spontaneous Discharge interesting read __________________ Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives." --John Adams, letter to Benjamin Rush, April 18, 1808 NRA Life TSRA Life GOA Member

12-23-2006, 02:13 PM	#3
TTUshooter V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: DFW/Lubbock TX Posts: 159	Re: Spontaneous Discharge crazy stuff... __________________ Guns cause crime like cameras cause porn!

12-23-2006, 02:36 PM	#4
VegasTech702 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 360	Re: Spontaneous Discharge If you look at the physics of it, it makes perfect sense. You are talking about a giant electro magnet... I bet the officer never does that again. I still don't know if I would want to carry a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked every day in every circumstance in cond 1. I think that my pistols that have a revolving trigger and firing pin disconnect are much safer than that of a 1911. yes, I do carry my Beretta 92FS and Bersa T380 with safety on and one in the chamber. I also open carry, so if I were the victim of a gun grab, I would have a chance at not getting immediately shot because the thief would have to disengage the safety.

12-23-2006, 04:36 PM	#5
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,790	Re: Spontaneous Discharge After reading this article five times, it still sounds like BS to me. The 1991 A-1 has three safetys and all were working ??? And the weapon still discharged ????

12-23-2006, 09:19 PM	#6
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Spontaneous Discharge Thanks for the link but like Shooter said I would take this with a grain of salt __________________ Only you can see this

12-23-2006, 10:13 PM	#7
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Spontaneous Discharge You have to realize the power of the giant electro magnet. Before you go for a MRI they want to be sure you don't have any pieces of metal in your body.Many times if your not sure you need Xrays. So not to heat up or move and cause injury or death. Alot of this is beyond the average guys understanding. ---JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-24-2006, 07:55 AM	#8
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: Spontaneous Discharge It sounds possible, but I wouldn't call it spontaneous, as an external force caused the gun to fire. If you drop a gun and it fires, that's an ACCIDENTAL not an spontaneous discharge. The headline looks tendencious to me. __________________ SI VIS PACEM, PARABELLUM.

12-24-2006, 01:18 PM	#9
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Spontaneous Discharge By Websters>--- Spontaneous; 5 : developing or occurring without apparent external influence, force, cause, or treatment. -Well the trigger wasn't pulled or the safwtly taken off?? --- Accidental; 2 a : occurring unexpectedly or by chance b : happening without intent or through carelessness and often with unfortunate results , So how to decide which? the magnet would have been an exrernal force,no? but it wouldn't to the eye appear to be apparant. ...as to Accidental, the gun was carried into the MRI lab without intent or through carelessness and did cause unfortunate results. So it seems you might be able to say it was a spontaneous discharge caused by an accidental action.Or something like that. --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-24-2006, 07:25 PM	#10
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Re: Spontaneous Discharge As the ole saying goes, "I'm from Missouri" until someone can come up with a more definitive causation..... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

12-24-2006, 11:04 PM	#11
durk Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,026	Re: Spontaneous Discharge Ok, after reading the link I am a bit confused about the hammer still cocked back when they found the gun against the magnet. Why is there a hammer on this gun if you don't need one to fire it? I thought the pressure of the falling hammer had something to do with the fireing of the gun. No? __________________ Durk

12-25-2006, 08:21 PM	#14
durk Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,026	Re: Spontaneous Discharge It sounds like things had to happen just right for this to take place. Would this be 1 in a million or more? It would seem that there is not much room in one of those machines for the gun to pick up much speed before hitting the sidewall with a whole lot of force. I dunno, very weird. __________________ Durk

12-26-2006, 07:33 PM	#15
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Spontaneous Discharge Xracer and durks last post have it about right. did you ever notice how a small magnet can pull a smaller piece ot metal to it so quicly? Now make that magnet the size of a car and try to imagine how quickly and with what force that gun might have been pulled against that magnet. remember the guy was what? around 3 ' away. I can imagine that gun was out of his hand and into that machine so fast you never saw it go. Anyway I thought it was interesting, --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-27-2006, 12:10 AM	#16
Light Coat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Middle of Nowhere, KS Posts: 466	Re: Spontaneous Discharge I just finished giving my cutaway a good beating. The firing pin was most likely pulled to the rear of the case from the velocity and impact brought on by the magnet. To this time I have seen no affect on ammunition itself from magnetic influence. As a side issue I will warn you to never store ammunition and batteries in close proximity. I know of one case of shotgun shells being fired by a 9volt stored in the same bag when someone was on a hunting trip.