Correct OAL? - The Firearms Forum

The_Vigilante · 07-11-2008, 10:57 PM

Hopefully some of you who have been reloading longer than I
have can help me with a question of COL/OAL. I started reloading
some .45 ACP using Hi-Skor 700x (5g) and 200g Lasercast RN
bullets. According to Lee's 2nd Edition of Modern Reloading a
minimum OAL for 200g lead bullets is shown of 1.170. When I tried seating the bullets at that length they appeared to be too far down in the case and wouldn't taper crimp properly. I then seated them to 1.275 OAL (Max OAL) and then taper crimped them using Lee's Crimping die. So where should
have I set the proper OAL for these Lasercast bullets? Thanks for
any help and suggestions.

artabr · 07-12-2008, 01:10 AM

Vigilante, I think 1.170" is to deep for a round nose bullet. I think you need to check your data. I would be willing to bet that your data is for a semi-wadcutter style bullet. 200 grain lead round nose data is kinda sparse. I would say about 1.275" would be better. Even better than taking anybodies advice, would be to call the maker. Ask what the O.A.L. is for their bullet. Trust me, they will be more than happy to help you. Also ask if they have any data they can send you.

http://www.laser-cast.com/ContactUs.html

Post back and let me know how it turned out.

Art

LDBennett · 07-12-2008, 06:42 AM

The_Vigilante:

When in doubt about the seating depth there are a few basics that need consideration.

The first is that when the bullets are seated deep the pressures developed by firing such a round are greater than when the bulet is seated long. So error towards the Max OAL.

Bullets can be thought of being made up of sections. The center is a straight cylinder. The nose is usually a rounded cone. The tail can be nonexistent (flat base) or a reverse tapered cone (boat tail) or a rounded surface (most cast bullets, to allow easy entry into the case during reloading).

Where the cyclinder meets the rounded cone is the point that you do NOT want to go inside the case. If the supplied OAL puts the rounded cone inside the case then that stated OAL is WRONG. It is also WRONG if too little of the cylinder and tail sections are inside the case because the case will have too loose of a grip on the bullet and it is likely to move under recoil or mere handling of the ammo.

So look your bullet over and decide what makes sense. Don't blindly follow the generic dimensions listed in the reloading manual that are for bullets that don't even look like yours. If you want to use only documented OAL data search out a manual that covers your exact bullet. I looked in about 5 different manuals and a 200 gr RN cast bullet is a rarity, apparently, and I found no data for it. Laser-Cast would most certainly have such data. OR apply the rules above.

LDBennett

The_Vigilante · 07-12-2008, 08:26 AM

LDBennett and Artabr,

Your comments and suggestions are appreciated. I did reseat to 1.275 after finding 1.170 too deep. I also emailed Lasercast for the recommended OAL. Although I didn't find any data for the 200g RN, I did find data for the 230g RN which puts the OAL at around 1.275 so that is what I will go with until I hear from Lasercast.

Popgunner · 07-12-2008, 05:11 PM

Rather than stab around in the dark why not use the load data for Lasercast bullets? Oregon Trail Bullet Co-makers of the Lasercast line puts out a nice manual to go along with their bullets. Different bullets even though they're the same weight won't always have the same OAL.

Remember that it's not just the overall length you need to consider. You first need to know the length that the cases were that the manual is using. For 45acp in the Lasercast manual the case length is called out to be .898 inches. If your cases are a different length then your case mouth will be at a different spot on the bullet when it's seated to the length called for in the manual. If you have cases that are .898" you would want to seat the 200 grain SWC Lasercast bullet to 1.250" OAL. (to my knowledge Lasecast doesn't make a 45 cal 200 gr roundnose.)

The Lasercast manual calls for 4.4 grains of 700x for the start load using WLP primers. Max is only 5.4 gr.

For the 45acp you'll want to make sure your cases are very close to the .898" figure.

The_Vigilante · 07-12-2008, 06:15 PM

Popgunner,

Check out the following link and you will find that they now do make a RN 200g bullet: http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html. I don't think the SWC and the RN would have the same OAL but then I may be wrong. Apparently this bullet must not be covered in their manual. I found no mention of a manual on their website but did email them and got some load data on selected bullets but not the RN 200g 45ACP. As indicated I did email them and hope to hear something on Monday.

Popgunner · 07-12-2008, 09:12 PM

Those must be newer bullets. They're not shown in the first edition manual. In the first edition manual all their bullets are seated to the same OAL. It would be wise to check with them though.

JLA · 07-12-2008, 09:43 PM

seat them just shallow of the ring on the bullet where the bearing surface starts, start at min. charge and work up. this should allow you to still apply a taper crimp. the only problem with using max OAL with laser cast bullets is that laser cast casts their bullets large ( .452 instead of the recommended .451 ) for the .45 ACP, and in some barrels the bullet ogive will stick inside the throat if max OAL is used. i have been using laser-cast 230gr. RN for nearly 2 yrs without problems, as long as i seat them deep enough...

The_Vigilante · 07-13-2008, 09:45 PM

JLA,

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know what OAL you are using?

JLA · 07-14-2008, 05:02 PM

1.235" with laser-cast 230gr RN

The_Vigilante · 07-15-2008, 06:55 AM

I received a reply from Oregon Trail recommending an OAL of 1.250/1.260. Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions.

07-11-2008, 10:57 PM	#1
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Correct OAL? Hopefully some of you who have been reloading longer than I have can help me with a question of COL/OAL. I started reloading some .45 ACP using Hi-Skor 700x (5g) and 200g Lasercast RN bullets. According to Lee's 2nd Edition of Modern Reloading a minimum OAL for 200g lead bullets is shown of 1.170. When I tried seating the bullets at that length they appeared to be too far down in the case and wouldn't taper crimp properly. I then seated them to 1.275 OAL (Max OAL) and then taper crimped them using Lee's Crimping die. So where should have I set the proper OAL for these Lasercast bullets? Thanks for any help and suggestions. __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns." -->

07-12-2008, 01:10 AM	#2
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Correct OAL? Vigilante, I think 1.170" is to deep for a round nose bullet. I think you need to check your data. I would be willing to bet that your data is for a semi-wadcutter style bullet. 200 grain lead round nose data is kinda sparse. I would say about 1.275" would be better. Even better than taking anybodies advice, would be to call the maker. Ask what the O.A.L. is for their bullet. Trust me, they will be more than happy to help you. Also ask if they have any data they can send you. http://www.laser-cast.com/ContactUs.html Post back and let me know how it turned out. Art __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! Last edited by artabr; 07-12-2008 at 01:31 AM..

07-12-2008, 06:42 AM	#3
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,711	Re: Correct OAL? The_Vigilante: When in doubt about the seating depth there are a few basics that need consideration. The first is that when the bullets are seated deep the pressures developed by firing such a round are greater than when the bulet is seated long. So error towards the Max OAL. Bullets can be thought of being made up of sections. The center is a straight cylinder. The nose is usually a rounded cone. The tail can be nonexistent (flat base) or a reverse tapered cone (boat tail) or a rounded surface (most cast bullets, to allow easy entry into the case during reloading). Where the cyclinder meets the rounded cone is the point that you do NOT want to go inside the case. If the supplied OAL puts the rounded cone inside the case then that stated OAL is WRONG. It is also WRONG if too little of the cylinder and tail sections are inside the case because the case will have too loose of a grip on the bullet and it is likely to move under recoil or mere handling of the ammo. So look your bullet over and decide what makes sense. Don't blindly follow the generic dimensions listed in the reloading manual that are for bullets that don't even look like yours. If you want to use only documented OAL data search out a manual that covers your exact bullet. I looked in about 5 different manuals and a 200 gr RN cast bullet is a rarity, apparently, and I found no data for it. Laser-Cast would most certainly have such data. OR apply the rules above. LDBennett

07-12-2008, 08:26 AM	#4
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Re: Correct OAL? LDBennett and Artabr, Your comments and suggestions are appreciated. I did reseat to 1.275 after finding 1.170 too deep. I also emailed Lasercast for the recommended OAL. Although I didn't find any data for the 200g RN, I did find data for the 230g RN which puts the OAL at around 1.275 so that is what I will go with until I hear from Lasercast. __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns."

07-12-2008, 05:11 PM	#5
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: Correct OAL? Rather than stab around in the dark why not use the load data for Lasercast bullets? Oregon Trail Bullet Co-makers of the Lasercast line puts out a nice manual to go along with their bullets. Different bullets even though they're the same weight won't always have the same OAL. Remember that it's not just the overall length you need to consider. You first need to know the length that the cases were that the manual is using. For 45acp in the Lasercast manual the case length is called out to be .898 inches. If your cases are a different length then your case mouth will be at a different spot on the bullet when it's seated to the length called for in the manual. If you have cases that are .898" you would want to seat the 200 grain SWC Lasercast bullet to 1.250" OAL. (to my knowledge Lasecast doesn't make a 45 cal 200 gr roundnose.) The Lasercast manual calls for 4.4 grains of 700x for the start load using WLP primers. Max is only 5.4 gr. For the 45acp you'll want to make sure your cases are very close to the .898" figure. Last edited by Popgunner; 07-12-2008 at 05:14 PM..

07-12-2008, 06:15 PM	#6
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Re: Correct OAL? Popgunner, Check out the following link and you will find that they now do make a RN 200g bullet: http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html. I don't think the SWC and the RN would have the same OAL but then I may be wrong. Apparently this bullet must not be covered in their manual. I found no mention of a manual on their website but did email them and got some load data on selected bullets but not the RN 200g 45ACP. As indicated I did email them and hope to hear something on Monday. __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns."

07-12-2008, 09:12 PM	#7
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: Correct OAL? Those must be newer bullets. They're not shown in the first edition manual. In the first edition manual all their bullets are seated to the same OAL. It would be wise to check with them though.

07-12-2008, 09:43 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: Correct OAL? seat them just shallow of the ring on the bullet where the bearing surface starts, start at min. charge and work up. this should allow you to still apply a taper crimp. the only problem with using max OAL with laser cast bullets is that laser cast casts their bullets large ( .452 instead of the recommended .451 ) for the .45 ACP, and in some barrels the bullet ogive will stick inside the throat if max OAL is used. i have been using laser-cast 230gr. RN for nearly 2 yrs without problems, as long as i seat them deep enough... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

07-13-2008, 09:45 PM	#9
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Re: Correct OAL? JLA, Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know what OAL you are using? __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns."

07-14-2008, 05:02 PM	#10
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: Correct OAL? 1.235" with laser-cast 230gr RN __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

07-15-2008, 06:55 AM	#11
The_Vigilante V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 123	Re: Correct OAL? I received a reply from Oregon Trail recommending an OAL of 1.250/1.260. Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions. __________________ The_Vigilante "Keeping the streets safe." "A man can never own enough guns."