powder ? - The Firearms Forum

madbuck22 · 02-27-2011, 11:51 AM

ok here goes i have a list of reloading equipment i'm going to buy next month i'm going RCBS now any input is greatly appriciated. my ? is can u use the same powder for m-10 and bolt action 30-06 both will be 165gr nosler nbt. i've been reading alot of different posts and want some opinions.

and is there a specific powder that's better for shots averaging 500 to 1200 yds.

carver · 02-27-2011, 11:59 AM

My advice is to get yourself several reloading manuals, and read them. Look at what they suggest as the powder that got them the best results for the loads you want to construct. What works well in one gun, may not work so well in another. This means that you might buy one kind of powder only to find that another will work better in your gun with the bullets you want to shoot. There is a learning curve here.

madbuck22 · 02-27-2011, 12:13 PM

part of the pakage is a manual but do i need several? or i was hopeing there would be some sort of consensous so i don't have to but a crap load of manuals and powders just trying to save money not trying to be a pain in the ass. i've read alot of posts on here and some guys seem to know alot that would help keep my costs down.

carver · 02-27-2011, 12:31 PM

Any one can post a load that works great for them. The problem is that all guns are not alike, so that load may, or may not, work well for you, and your gun. Once you purchase two, or three reloading manuals, and start reading them, the first thing that you are going to notice is that the information printed for each load of a specific powder is different to some degree. If I were making plinking ammo, it doesn't matter if it's the best load for my gun, or not! But if I want the best ammo I can load, then I have to put on my thinking cap, and start reading my reloading manuals. The load they say works best for them, with their gun, might not do as well in mine. So I start adjusting my loads. I might decrease, or increase (safely, by the book) the ammout of powder I put into the load. Or I might try another bullet weight, or type. I might try a different kind of brass, or even switch primers. This is what makes reloading so much fun for some people. And it is the reason I don't reload rifle ammo! Pistol only for me! If I did reload rifle ammo it would be to be able to shoot more for less, and any load that I put together that got a minute of angle would be more than just fine!

JLA · 02-27-2011, 03:24 PM

carver is right. there is no substitiute for knowledge and reloading safely requires lot of knowledge. Its not something you can wing and you cant safely just use any load from joesfavoriteload.com...

Now, that said. Buy you some manuals, and if all your gonna load is .30-06, buy some IMR4350. Its been one of the best for the 06 for decades and covers many bullet weights..

madbuck22 · 02-27-2011, 03:41 PM

WOW! i've figuered out the best ammo off the shelf for my gun 3006. i went through alot of money trying to figure out the best round, i ended up with federal premium nbt 165. k. that said the 308 is new and i was turned onto 168gr blackhills copper match. now i really want to make my own but dam is it gonna be a real bitch to make it to the final product and cost me more than just buying it. what do u guys think. and like i said it has to be great at long range.

madbuck22 · 02-27-2011, 03:50 PM

i do alot of hunting and i shot bow to for ten years i just shot bow for deer. used guns all my life though. so that said with a bow and arrow for me it's about how close u can be for rifle it's how far u can be. i like to shot targets at long range it's alot of fun. if this makes any differece my scopes are top of the line NF.

JLA · 02-27-2011, 08:23 PM

those nightforces and high end rifles aint gonna amount to nuttn if your ammo aint up to snuff. The .308 uses faster powders than the .30-06. Buy some loading manuals and read the first few chapters.

itll get you up to speed

If that would be what you consider 'a bitch' to accomplish, then reloading isnt for you my friend...

woolleyworm · 02-28-2011, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbuck22

WOW! i've figuered out the best ammo off the shelf for my gun 3006. i went through alot of money trying to figure out the best round, i ended up with federal premium nbt 165. k. that said the 308 is new and i was turned onto 168gr blackhills copper match. now i really want to make my own but dam is it gonna be a real bitch to make it to the final product and cost me more than just buying it. what do u guys think. and like i said it has to be great at long range.

If you're buying BH match, then you'll have no problem paying for reloading equipment and getting better results; the press and many pounds of powder will pay for itself in no time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

carver is right. there is no substitiute for knowledge and reloading safely requires lot of knowledge. Its not something you can wing and you cant safely just use any load from joesfavoriteload.com...

Now, that said. Buy you some manuals, and if all your gonna load is .30-06, buy some IMR4350. Its been one of the best for the 06 for decades and covers many bullet weights..

A reloading manual costs no more than a 20 rnd box of .308; if you're serious into long range shooting as you say, then the ballistics insights you'll gain will be worth every penny. Will be the best $65 you spent if you buy 3 or 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

Any one can post a load that works great for them. The problem is that all guns are not alike, so that load may, or may not, work well for you, and your gun. Once you purchase two, or three reloading manuals, and start reading them, the first thing that you are going to notice is that the information printed for each load of a specific powder is different to some degree. If I were making plinking ammo, it doesn't matter if it's the best load for my gun, or not! But if I want the best ammo I can load, then I have to put on my thinking cap, and start reading my reloading manuals. The load they say works best for them, with their gun, might not do as well in mine. So I start adjusting my loads. I might decrease, or increase (safely, by the book) the ammout of powder I put into the load. Or I might try another bullet weight, or type. I might try a different kind of brass, or even switch primers. This is what makes reloading so much fun for some people. And it is the reason I don't reload rifle ammo! Pistol only for me! If I did reload rifle ammo it would be to be able to shoot more for less, and any load that I put together that got a minute of angle would be more than just fine!

As any sniper, match shooter or JLA will tell ya; not only is every gun different, EVERY barrel is different too. There may be a degree of difference that I don't care to load to, but to the sniper team that has to make a one shot one kill trigger pull, yeah, he understands and knows exactly how his barrel is going to perform at the shot distance, barrel temp and ambient temps. Long range match shooting is much more than just having a decent rifle and a fancy scope, MUCH more and you won't find a single guy that is into competitive match that doesn't understand the basics of handloading. Not saying that every single LR match shooter loads his/her own ammo, there are probably a few that don't; I just haven't met any yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbuck22

part of the pakage is a manual but do i need several? or i was hopeing there would be some sort of consensous so i don't have to but a crap load of manuals and powders just trying to save money not trying to be a pain in the ass. i've read alot of posts on here and some guys seem to know alot that would help keep my costs down.

You need to buy at least 3 in my opinion, cross referencing is invaluable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbuck22

ok here goes i have a list of reloading equipment i'm going to buy next month i'm going RCBS now any input is greatly appriciated. my ? is can u use the same powder for m-10 and bolt action 30-06 both will be 165gr nosler nbt. i've been reading alot of different posts and want some opinions.

and is there a specific powder that's better for shots averaging 500 to 1200 yds.

Just make sure you understand the manuals FIRST, this will make buying the equipment easier and much more cost effective. Which press are you considering?

madbuck22 · 02-28-2011, 10:37 AM

my guns are top of the line custom made barrels and so on. i know the twist and size makes a difference. my buddies do both reload and use premade ammo some do things different from others. shooting is thier job lets put it that way, but i like to get alot of info before making up my mind the way i want to make bullets. i have all my dope for different temps and altitudes and have shot the dopes. i just found this fourm and want to pick some minds. my buddies are great people but one never knows everything and i want your guys opinion. sounds like i need to get manuals first and bone up on them then go from there that seems to be the first step i'm getting. the press i'm looking at is RCBS rock chucker press what do u think about about that press or is there a better one. i really do thank everyone for thier opinion i like it the more info the better for me.

madbuck22 · 02-28-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

those nightforces and high end rifles aint gonna amount to nuttn if your ammo aint up to snuff. The .308 uses faster powders than the .30-06. Buy some loading manuals and read the first few chapters.

itll get you up to speed

If that would be what you consider 'a bitch' to accomplish, then reloading isnt for you my friend...

got it that's what i'm gonna do before buying anything else.

woolleyworm · 02-28-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbuck22

my guns are top of the line custom made barrels and so on. i know the twist and size makes a difference. my buddies do both reload and use premade ammo some do things different from others. shooting is thier job lets put it that way, but i like to get alot of info before making up my mind the way i want to make bullets. i have all my dope for different temps and altitudes and have shot the dopes. i just found this fourm and want to pick some minds. my buddies are great people but one never knows everything and i want your guys opinion. sounds like i need to get manuals first and bone up on them then go from there that seems to be the first step i'm getting. the press i'm looking at is RCBS rock chucker press what do u think about about that press or is there a better one. i really do thank everyone for thier opinion i like it the more info the better for me.

The rock chucker is one of the best single stage presses available. The Co-Ax is "the" best in my opinion ( strictly single stage ) If you want the best bang for your buck, get a 550B from Dillon.

polishshooter · 02-28-2011, 12:05 PM

One can not have too many manuals. In fact, when the weather is cold there is nothing like sitting next to the wood stove with three or more of them and look at their recommendations for some of the same cartridges!

There are a LOT of variances between manuals, some are more conservative than others.

And some times they leave you scratching your head!

Like the "Complete Reloading manual for the 220 Swift" I just bought...under the Hornady section, they used MY rifle for the test rifle..Ruger 77 Mark II, 26" 1/14 twist so I am thinking WOW here is all I need....

In the TEXT they say "Best overall loading results in our rifle were obtained with....the heavier 55 and 60 gr bullets."

But inder the 60 grain Bullet section, it says "NOTE: The 60 gr Vmax and Hollow Point bullets will not stabilize in a 1-14" and slower twist."

HUH????

JLA · 02-28-2011, 09:38 PM

The 'chucker' will serve you very well. Everyone has their preference of presses and the ones they think are the best. I will someday buy a redding boss or big boss, or maybe even a T7, but until then Ill make do with an RCBS.

Redding equipment is tip of the spear IMO. Far and away the most precise reloading equipment money can buy.

Popgunner · 03-01-2011, 11:36 AM

Since you seem to like Nosler bullets I'd suggest your first or one of your first manuals ought to be the Nosler manual. Different brand bullets in the same weights have been shown to vary as much as 10k of pressure in the 30-06. As the manuals are specific to the brand of bullets, you'll want the brand of manual to go along with your bullets. If you're into long range shooting (500-1200 yards seems like you are) you may also want the Sierra manual. They've got some great match bullets.

Although a bit more pricey for bullets, I've been having lots of fun shooting Barnes solid copper bullets long range. They put out a good manual too.

As for a powder that is showing up more & more in all the manuals for non-mag 30 caliber you may want to check out Varget powder. I've always gotten great performance from IMR-4064, & IMR-4895 in the two calibers you're working with & as was mentioned, IMR-4350 is super good for the "06 with heavier bullets. That dang Varget seems to be very popular with those that write the manuals. I've tried it & liked it.

gdmoody · 03-01-2011, 01:14 PM

I agree with Popgunner on the use of Varget, I use it in 30.06, 308, 7mm-08, and 223. It is a good choice in powders.

madbuck22 · 03-02-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popgunner

Since you seem to like Nosler bullets I'd suggest your first or one of your first manuals ought to be the Nosler manual. Different brand bullets in the same weights have been shown to vary as much as 10k of pressure in the 30-06. As the manuals are specific to the brand of bullets, you'll want the brand of manual to go along with your bullets. If you're into long range shooting (500-1200 yards seems like you are) you may also want the Sierra manual. They've got some great match bullets.

Although a bit more pricey for bullets, I've been having lots of fun shooting Barnes solid copper bullets long range. They put out a good manual too.

As for a powder that is showing up more & more in all the manuals for non-mag 30 caliber you may want to check out Varget powder. I've always gotten great performance from IMR-4064, & IMR-4895 in the two calibers you're working with & as was mentioned, IMR-4350 is super good for the "06 with heavier bullets. That dang Varget seems to be very popular with those that write the manuals. I've tried it & liked it.

got it thank you.

madbuck22 · 03-02-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

But inder the 60 grain Bullet section, it says "NOTE: The 60 gr Vmax and Hollow Point bullets will not stabilize in a 1-14" and slower twist."

HUH????

makes sense to me the heavier bullet needs to spin faster to stabilize or u get sloppy groups. for instance i have a 223 1in 8 twist everything upto 70gr will group well (stabilize). go heavier it's allover the place. i have a buddy who makes bullets and have tried a 95 gr it won't group worth a darn.

JLA · 03-02-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

One can not have too many manuals. In fact, when the weather is cold there is nothing like sitting next to the wood stove with three or more of them and look at their recommendations for some of the same cartridges!

There are a LOT of variances between manuals, some are more conservative than others.

And some times they leave you scratching your head!

Like the "Complete Reloading manual for the 220 Swift" I just bought...under the Hornady section, they used MY rifle for the test rifle..Ruger 77 Mark II, 26" 1/14 twist so I am thinking WOW here is all I need....

In the TEXT they say "Best overall loading results in our rifle were obtained with....the heavier 55 and 60 gr bullets."

But inder the 60 grain Bullet section, it says "NOTE: The 60 gr Vmax and Hollow Point bullets will not stabilize in a 1-14" and slower twist."

HUH????

They could care less what the bullets do on paper. they are reading pressure readouts and comparing consistencies. basically they are saying the .220 swift is more consistent with those bullet weights. Soooo, you should rebarrel your swift with a 9 twist tube...

madbuck22 · 03-03-2011, 08:12 AM

just ordered my first manuals nosler, hornaday,sierra it's a first step yeppy.i'll get there one step at a time.

Gene Seward · 03-03-2011, 10:14 AM

Madbuck, your RCBS will give you years of great reloading and if you ever need anything they are fantastic to send any part that you may need. I started with the turret press for the simple reason I didn't want to go as fast as a progressive to start, but did not want to take as long as the rock chucker. In the future I may go to the progressive, but I doubt it. I also load for the .308 and .223 with great results. For the .308 I use H4895 and with the .223 I use Benchmark mostly. Like some of the others I agree Varget is great with some bullets in both. Just take your time and read read read. Also everyone here have always helped me with any help I might need. I read post even when it is nothing I load now, but you never can tell in the future. Good Luck.

02-27-2011, 11:51 AM	#1
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	powder ? ok here goes i have a list of reloading equipment i'm going to buy next month i'm going RCBS now any input is greatly appriciated. my ? is can u use the same powder for m-10 and bolt action 30-06 both will be 165gr nosler nbt. i've been reading alot of different posts and want some opinions.and is there a specific powder that's better for shots averaging 500 to 1200 yds. -->

02-27-2011, 11:59 AM	#2
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,254	Re: powder ? My advice is to get yourself several reloading manuals, and read them. Look at what they suggest as the powder that got them the best results for the loads you want to construct. What works well in one gun, may not work so well in another. This means that you might buy one kind of powder only to find that another will work better in your gun with the bullets you want to shoot. There is a learning curve here. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

02-27-2011, 12:13 PM	#3
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	Re: powder ? part of the pakage is a manual but do i need several? or i was hopeing there would be some sort of consensous so i don't have to but a crap load of manuals and powders just trying to save money not trying to be a pain in the ass. i've read alot of posts on here and some guys seem to know alot that would help keep my costs down.

02-27-2011, 12:31 PM	#4
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,254	Re: powder ? Any one can post a load that works great for them. The problem is that all guns are not alike, so that load may, or may not, work well for you, and your gun. Once you purchase two, or three reloading manuals, and start reading them, the first thing that you are going to notice is that the information printed for each load of a specific powder is different to some degree. If I were making plinking ammo, it doesn't matter if it's the best load for my gun, or not! But if I want the best ammo I can load, then I have to put on my thinking cap, and start reading my reloading manuals. The load they say works best for them, with their gun, might not do as well in mine. So I start adjusting my loads. I might decrease, or increase (safely, by the book) the ammout of powder I put into the load. Or I might try another bullet weight, or type. I might try a different kind of brass, or even switch primers. This is what makes reloading so much fun for some people. And it is the reason I don't reload rifle ammo! Pistol only for me! If I did reload rifle ammo it would be to be able to shoot more for less, and any load that I put together that got a minute of angle would be more than just fine! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old. Last edited by carver; 02-27-2011 at 12:35 PM..

02-27-2011, 03:24 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: powder ? carver is right. there is no substitiute for knowledge and reloading safely requires lot of knowledge. Its not something you can wing and you cant safely just use any load from joesfavoriteload.com... Now, that said. Buy you some manuals, and if all your gonna load is .30-06, buy some IMR4350. Its been one of the best for the 06 for decades and covers many bullet weights.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-27-2011, 03:41 PM	#6
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	Re: powder ? WOW! i've figuered out the best ammo off the shelf for my gun 3006. i went through alot of money trying to figure out the best round, i ended up with federal premium nbt 165. k. that said the 308 is new and i was turned onto 168gr blackhills copper match. now i really want to make my own but dam is it gonna be a real bitch to make it to the final product and cost me more than just buying it. what do u guys think. and like i said it has to be great at long range.

02-27-2011, 03:50 PM	#7
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	Re: powder ? i do alot of hunting and i shot bow to for ten years i just shot bow for deer. used guns all my life though. so that said with a bow and arrow for me it's about how close u can be for rifle it's how far u can be. i like to shot targets at long range it's alot of fun. if this makes any differece my scopes are top of the line NF.

02-27-2011, 08:23 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: powder ? those nightforces and high end rifles aint gonna amount to nuttn if your ammo aint up to snuff. The .308 uses faster powders than the .30-06. Buy some loading manuals and read the first few chapters. itll get you up to speed If that would be what you consider 'a bitch' to accomplish, then reloading isnt for you my friend... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-28-2011, 10:37 AM	#10
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	Re: powder ? my guns are top of the line custom made barrels and so on. i know the twist and size makes a difference. my buddies do both reload and use premade ammo some do things different from others. shooting is thier job lets put it that way, but i like to get alot of info before making up my mind the way i want to make bullets. i have all my dope for different temps and altitudes and have shot the dopes. i just found this fourm and want to pick some minds. my buddies are great people but one never knows everything and i want your guys opinion. sounds like i need to get manuals first and bone up on them then go from there that seems to be the first step i'm getting. the press i'm looking at is RCBS rock chucker press what do u think about about that press or is there a better one. i really do thank everyone for thier opinion i like it the more info the better for me.

02-28-2011, 12:05 PM	#13
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: powder ? One can not have too many manuals. In fact, when the weather is cold there is nothing like sitting next to the wood stove with three or more of them and look at their recommendations for some of the same cartridges! There are a LOT of variances between manuals, some are more conservative than others. And some times they leave you scratching your head! Like the "Complete Reloading manual for the 220 Swift" I just bought...under the Hornady section, they used MY rifle for the test rifle..Ruger 77 Mark II, 26" 1/14 twist so I am thinking WOW here is all I need.... In the TEXT they say "Best overall loading results in our rifle were obtained with....the heavier 55 and 60 gr bullets." But inder the 60 grain Bullet section, it says "NOTE: The 60 gr Vmax and Hollow Point bullets will not stabilize in a 1-14" and slower twist." HUH???? __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

02-28-2011, 09:38 PM	#14
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: powder ? The 'chucker' will serve you very well. Everyone has their preference of presses and the ones they think are the best. I will someday buy a redding boss or big boss, or maybe even a T7, but until then Ill make do with an RCBS. Redding equipment is tip of the spear IMO. Far and away the most precise reloading equipment money can buy. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-01-2011, 11:36 AM	#15
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: powder ? Since you seem to like Nosler bullets I'd suggest your first or one of your first manuals ought to be the Nosler manual. Different brand bullets in the same weights have been shown to vary as much as 10k of pressure in the 30-06. As the manuals are specific to the brand of bullets, you'll want the brand of manual to go along with your bullets. If you're into long range shooting (500-1200 yards seems like you are) you may also want the Sierra manual. They've got some great match bullets. Although a bit more pricey for bullets, I've been having lots of fun shooting Barnes solid copper bullets long range. They put out a good manual too. As for a powder that is showing up more & more in all the manuals for non-mag 30 caliber you may want to check out Varget powder. I've always gotten great performance from IMR-4064, & IMR-4895 in the two calibers you're working with & as was mentioned, IMR-4350 is super good for the "06 with heavier bullets. That dang Varget seems to be very popular with those that write the manuals. I've tried it & liked it. Last edited by Popgunner; 03-01-2011 at 11:38 AM..

03-01-2011, 01:14 PM	#16
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,330	Re: powder ? I agree with Popgunner on the use of Varget, I use it in 30.06, 308, 7mm-08, and 223. It is a good choice in powders. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

03-03-2011, 08:12 AM	#20
madbuck22 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 64	Re: powder ? just ordered my first manuals nosler, hornaday,sierra it's a first step yeppy.i'll get there one step at a time.

03-03-2011, 10:14 AM	#21
Gene Seward V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Batesville, Arkansas Posts: 477	Re: powder ? Madbuck, your RCBS will give you years of great reloading and if you ever need anything they are fantastic to send any part that you may need. I started with the turret press for the simple reason I didn't want to go as fast as a progressive to start, but did not want to take as long as the rock chucker. In the future I may go to the progressive, but I doubt it. I also load for the .308 and .223 with great results. For the .308 I use H4895 and with the .223 I use Benchmark mostly. Like some of the others I agree Varget is great with some bullets in both. Just take your time and read read read. Also everyone here have always helped me with any help I might need. I read post even when it is nothing I load now, but you never can tell in the future. Good Luck.