pre 64 model 70 308 - The Firearms Forum

R.C.G. · 01-01-2011, 04:18 PM

Is a Winchester pre 64 in 308 caliber less commom than than other calibers? I get conflicting info from my blue book

300 H&H · 01-01-2011, 05:42 PM

Yes it is....

Just over 41,000 rifles, and Only about 7% of production are in .308. Rifles in 308 that are not in the standard sporting configuration are very rare, such as a target model. But to put this in perspective, it is also the 4th most common caliber, behind the 30/06, 270 Win, and the .243 Win..

The rare ones are in this order, 1st to last.....300 Savage. 35 Remington, 458 Win., 7X57, 358 Win., 250 Savage, 300 Win Mag.. All of these individually are less than 1% of production, and consequently are worth the most in excellent condition.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Kirk

R.C.G. · 01-02-2011, 12:37 PM

thanks Kirk!

Gamemaster 760 · 01-02-2011, 03:37 PM

I have a neighbor that has a Pre 64 Model 70 Featherweight 308 Winchester.
He honestly thinks that it is worth a small mint, even though it looks as if it had been dragged behind the hunting truck on a rope for a couple of miles.

You can say that anything is valuable - if there is someone interested in collecting it.
But if you do not take care of it, or if it is not in mint condition, the value of it depreciates considerably.

20 years ago, I could have bought a pre 64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum and did not. I personally knew the man that owned it and figured that it was not worth much due to the fact that they were selling it at an auction and that it was going to go to the highest bidder and that I did not have enough money to bid on it.

I would not sell everything I own to own one.
There is nothing wrong in my opinion with a post 64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum - so the only value is to a person that collects them and not in the precision for which they shot or the exact tolerances that they held when Winchester made them 46+ years ago....

R.C.G. · 01-03-2011, 08:00 AM

Can you recommend a good reference book for the pre 64 model 70's? I am interested in how many in each caliber and grade were manufactured and what years. thanks

300 H&H · 01-04-2011, 06:45 AM

The book I like is "The Riflemans Rifle" By Roger Rule. It is the standard referance for M70 collectors, although there are some errors, claimed by some.....It is still the definative work on the pre 64 M70. I don't know if it is still in print however....I gave $100 for mine quite a few years ago......

Even the book that is about these rifles is a collectors item!

That is how strong the urge to own pre 64 M70's is. Many folks want to by, only so many to go around. Supply and demand. Pre 64 Winchesters are about as good of a firearm investment as you can make, IMHO.

Best regards, Kirk

Road America · 01-04-2011, 07:37 PM

Where is the 220 swift in the rarity order?

muddober · 01-05-2011, 07:17 AM

The 220 swift is not all that rare, just guessing I would say somewhere between the 22 Hornet and the 270. They made it in a standard rifle, a supper grade, a varmit and a target. There are some very strange model 70's showing up lately. I saw one in 30M1 carbine just yesterday as well as a 7.65 MM not to be confused with the 7x57 MM. I knew of 7.65 chambering but never the 30M1.

Ron

R.C.G. · 01-16-2011, 05:01 PM

hey guys I just picked-up my first pre-64 model 70 at a local gun show. It is a transition model sn 85xxx in 220 swift, probably would rate at 90-98%. I also just ordered Roger Rules book. Of all my old guns, it seems to me that these pre 64's are the only ones that are bringing more than blue book. I think they are a good investment. Thank you for all your help. I am sure I will be back, you can't stop at just one can you? Helmer

dragman · 01-18-2011, 10:35 AM

Should be over a $1000 gun if in good condition.

jpmccr · 01-21-2011, 02:44 PM

How would my Pre-64 300 H&H fall into place? The serial number is 405XXX and has a dob of 1957.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...ester+model+70

R.C.G. · 01-26-2011, 02:30 PM

what scopes from the pre 64 era other than Weaver were popular back then? I would like to mount one on my 220 swift. any suggestions?

300 H&H · 01-26-2011, 08:44 PM

jpmccr,

Your 300 H&H is the 5th most popular calibe at 6.4% of production, 37,000 rifles so chambered...Great old round by the way......

Road America,

The Swift is the 8th most popular with 3.4% of M70's so chambered or about 20,000 rifles.

Helmer,

The only scope I would put on your old Swift, if it is a varmit and drilled for target blocks, is a long tubed Unertl 2" target or varmit. Classic setup., IMHO

Regards, all, Kirk

wonderwhippet · 01-26-2011, 09:04 PM

Aclassy scope at that time was the Bausch and Lomb Balvar line of scopes.

300 H&H · 01-26-2011, 09:46 PM

Standard rifle.....+1 above

R.C.G. · 01-29-2011, 05:07 PM

where can you tell me about lyman scopes fromthat era? thanks

R.C.G. · 02-05-2011, 10:21 AM

the Lyman wolverine scope adjustment is in the crosshairs, instead of the lenses. So now my crosshairs aren't centered. bad choice. I can't shim it enough without being obvious.
Did the pre 64 243 supergrade come with a recoil pad? It is a Winchester solid red pad correct for the era, but most supergrades I see don't have a recoil pad. I think the rifle is rare, according to Roger Rule's book they only made 291 in 243 supergrade. any thoughts? thanks

300 H&H · 02-05-2011, 08:25 PM

helmer,

The key to centering your retical with these older scopes is in the selection of the mounts. Redfield Jr or Sr. bases have windage built in. Shimming for elevation should be no problem as well. I have yet to see a pre 64 M70 that required them though. Yes your rifle is truely a rare one! I have seen an know were there is another 243 Super Grade..... Probably the only one I will ever see...Unless yours should be for sale......

The Lyman scopes are good as well, but check them for crazing of the lens coatings before you buy. ( Look backwards through the scope at different objects, but focus on the objective lens, looking around the edges for cracking or peeling of the lens coatings.) Some will do this, some have not. The super target spot barrel mount types are notabley good scopes, for this type.

Wishing I owned your rifle,

Kirk

R.C.G. · 02-06-2011, 08:33 AM

Kirk, I did not buy the 243 supergrade. the stock had been cut to allow for a recoil pad. why anyone would want a pad on a 243 was my first clue. also the front sight was not correct for the rifle. I am thinking someone might have put a jeweled bolt and supergrade stock on a 243 receiver. If not they sure screwed up cutting the stock. I guy really has to check this stuff out anymore. Scott

01-01-2011, 04:18 PM	#1
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	pre 64 model 70 308 Is a Winchester pre 64 in 308 caliber less commom than than other calibers? I get conflicting info from my blue book -->

01-01-2011, 05:42 PM	#2
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Yes it is.... Just over 41,000 rifles, and Only about 7% of production are in .308. Rifles in 308 that are not in the standard sporting configuration are very rare, such as a target model. But to put this in perspective, it is also the 4th most common caliber, behind the 30/06, 270 Win, and the .243 Win.. The rare ones are in this order, 1st to last.....300 Savage. 35 Remington, 458 Win., 7X57, 358 Win., 250 Savage, 300 Win Mag.. All of these individually are less than 1% of production, and consequently are worth the most in excellent condition. Hope this helps, Regards, Kirk Last edited by 300 H&H; 01-01-2011 at 05:50 PM..

01-02-2011, 12:37 PM	#3
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 thanks Kirk!

01-02-2011, 03:37 PM	#4
Gamemaster 760 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 72	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 I have a neighbor that has a Pre 64 Model 70 Featherweight 308 Winchester. He honestly thinks that it is worth a small mint, even though it looks as if it had been dragged behind the hunting truck on a rope for a couple of miles. You can say that anything is valuable - if there is someone interested in collecting it. But if you do not take care of it, or if it is not in mint condition, the value of it depreciates considerably. 20 years ago, I could have bought a pre 64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum and did not. I personally knew the man that owned it and figured that it was not worth much due to the fact that they were selling it at an auction and that it was going to go to the highest bidder and that I did not have enough money to bid on it. I would not sell everything I own to own one. There is nothing wrong in my opinion with a post 64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum - so the only value is to a person that collects them and not in the precision for which they shot or the exact tolerances that they held when Winchester made them 46+ years ago....

01-03-2011, 08:00 AM	#5
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Can you recommend a good reference book for the pre 64 model 70's? I am interested in how many in each caliber and grade were manufactured and what years. thanks

01-04-2011, 06:45 AM	#6
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 The book I like is "The Riflemans Rifle" By Roger Rule. It is the standard referance for M70 collectors, although there are some errors, claimed by some.....It is still the definative work on the pre 64 M70. I don't know if it is still in print however....I gave $100 for mine quite a few years ago...... Even the book that is about these rifles is a collectors item! That is how strong the urge to own pre 64 M70's is. Many folks want to by, only so many to go around. Supply and demand. Pre 64 Winchesters are about as good of a firearm investment as you can make, IMHO. Best regards, Kirk

01-04-2011, 07:37 PM	#7
Road America V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 177	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Where is the 220 swift in the rarity order?

01-05-2011, 07:17 AM	#8
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 The 220 swift is not all that rare, just guessing I would say somewhere between the 22 Hornet and the 270. They made it in a standard rifle, a supper grade, a varmit and a target. There are some very strange model 70's showing up lately. I saw one in 30M1 carbine just yesterday as well as a 7.65 MM not to be confused with the 7x57 MM. I knew of 7.65 chambering but never the 30M1. Ron Last edited by muddober; 01-05-2011 at 07:21 AM..

01-16-2011, 05:01 PM	#9
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 hey guys I just picked-up my first pre-64 model 70 at a local gun show. It is a transition model sn 85xxx in 220 swift, probably would rate at 90-98%. I also just ordered Roger Rules book. Of all my old guns, it seems to me that these pre 64's are the only ones that are bringing more than blue book. I think they are a good investment. Thank you for all your help. I am sure I will be back, you can't stop at just one can you? Helmer

01-18-2011, 10:35 AM	#10
dragman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: PA Posts: 201	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Should be over a $1000 gun if in good condition.

01-21-2011, 02:44 PM	#11
jpmccr Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NJ (really don't know why?) Posts: 530	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 How would my Pre-64 300 H&H fall into place? The serial number is 405XXX and has a dob of 1957. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...ester+model+70 __________________ J.P. "The Desire to Serve, The Ability to Perform, and The Courage to Act." *"God invented whiskey to keep the Irish from conquering the world!"* "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Last edited by jpmccr; 01-21-2011 at 02:51 PM..

01-26-2011, 02:30 PM	#12
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 what scopes from the pre 64 era other than Weaver were popular back then? I would like to mount one on my 220 swift. any suggestions?

01-26-2011, 08:44 PM	#13
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 jpmccr, Your 300 H&H is the 5th most popular calibe at 6.4% of production, 37,000 rifles so chambered...Great old round by the way...... Road America, The Swift is the 8th most popular with 3.4% of M70's so chambered or about 20,000 rifles. Helmer, The only scope I would put on your old Swift, if it is a varmit and drilled for target blocks, is a long tubed Unertl 2" target or varmit. Classic setup., IMHO Regards, all, Kirk Last edited by 300 H&H; 01-26-2011 at 08:46 PM..

01-26-2011, 09:04 PM	#14
wonderwhippet Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,583	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Aclassy scope at that time was the Bausch and Lomb Balvar line of scopes.

01-26-2011, 09:46 PM	#15
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Standard rifle.....+1 above

01-29-2011, 05:07 PM	#16
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 where can you tell me about lyman scopes fromthat era? thanks

02-05-2011, 10:21 AM	#17
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 the Lyman wolverine scope adjustment is in the crosshairs, instead of the lenses. So now my crosshairs aren't centered. bad choice. I can't shim it enough without being obvious. Did the pre 64 243 supergrade come with a recoil pad? It is a Winchester solid red pad correct for the era, but most supergrades I see don't have a recoil pad. I think the rifle is rare, according to Roger Rule's book they only made 291 in 243 supergrade. any thoughts? thanks Last edited by R.C.G.; 02-05-2011 at 10:24 AM..

02-05-2011, 08:25 PM	#18
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 helmer, The key to centering your retical with these older scopes is in the selection of the mounts. Redfield Jr or Sr. bases have windage built in. Shimming for elevation should be no problem as well. I have yet to see a pre 64 M70 that required them though. Yes your rifle is truely a rare one! I have seen an know were there is another 243 Super Grade..... Probably the only one I will ever see...Unless yours should be for sale...... The Lyman scopes are good as well, but check them for crazing of the lens coatings before you buy. ( Look backwards through the scope at different objects, but focus on the objective lens, looking around the edges for cracking or peeling of the lens coatings.) Some will do this, some have not. The super target spot barrel mount types are notabley good scopes, for this type. Wishing I owned your rifle, Kirk

02-06-2011, 08:33 AM	#19
R.C.G. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Payson AZ Posts: 15	Re: pre 64 model 70 308 Kirk, I did not buy the 243 supergrade. the stock had been cut to allow for a recoil pad. why anyone would want a pad on a 243 was my first clue. also the front sight was not correct for the rifle. I am thinking someone might have put a jeweled bolt and supergrade stock on a 243 receiver. If not they sure screwed up cutting the stock. I guy really has to check this stuff out anymore. Scott