Bad Math Continues in Washington

[PPK 32]

Just got done reading all I could on the government mandated health care plan. Once again the boys up there can't add 2 and 2. All businesses with 25 or more people will have to follow the guidelines. There is a penalty for "too little insurance" A penalty for not enough and of course a penalty for none at all. Basically, if you own or run a company larger than 24 you are screwed. The price tag is so great it would sink this company in a heartbeat. Sure ya get a federal tax credit, have no idea how much or what it is. Last time I checked the insurance company will only take a check, no federal tax credits. I guess I have to fire 8 people and call it a day.

[red14]

Originally Posted by PPK 32

Just got done reading all I could on the government mandated health care plan. Once again the boys up there can't add 2 and 2. All businesses with 25 or more people will have to follow the guidelines. There is a penalty for "too little insurance" A penalty for not enough and of course a penalty for none at all. Basically, if you own or run a company larger than 24 you are screwed. The price tag is so great it would sink this company in a heartbeat. Sure ya get a federal tax credit, have no idea how much or what it is. Last time I checked the insurance company will only take a check, no federal tax credits. I guess I have to fire 8 people and call it a day.

Exactly why it's stupid. Nobody up there has ever run a small business. It's all written on theory. Well, theory, never got anything done.

[walien]

Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then. People don't want government healthcare, so if you're going to get everyone covered, these are the kinds of things you need to do. Do you pay your staff enough that they can afford to get a private policy for their families? Perhaps you don't care about them having insurance.

The senate bill provides a $750 penalty for companies that don't provide insurance. For your company, that would be $23,250 in penalties. Compare that to the cost of reducing the size of your business by 33%. Of course, if laying off 1/3 of your workforce is worth more than a $23,250 penalty, I'm not sure why you'd have them employed in the first place.

The insurance companies might not take credits, but I'm sure your accountant could help you find ways to mend the gap.

Exactly why it's stupid. Nobody up there has ever run a small business.

http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml#fl

I checked the backgrounds of the first two people on that list. One Democrat and one Republican. Both have run small businesses.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by walien

Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then. People don't want government healthcare, so if you're going to get everyone covered, these are the kinds of things you need to do. Do you pay your staff enough that they can afford to get a private policy for their families? Perhaps you don't care about them having insurance.

The senate bill provides a $750 penalty for companies that don't provide insurance. For your company, that would be $23,250 in penalties. Compare that to the cost of reducing the size of your business by 33%. Of course, if laying off 1/3 of your workforce is worth more than a $23,250 penalty, I'm not sure why you'd have them employed in the first place.

The insurance companies might not take credits, but I'm sure your accountant could help you find ways to mend the gap.



http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml#fl

I checked the backgrounds of the first two people on that list. One Democrat and one Republican. Both have run small businesses.

Perhaps you can outline why people should be forced to have insurance. Beyond your usual nebulous fell-good, social justice liberal blather.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by walien

Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then. People don't want government healthcare, so if you're going to get everyone covered, these are the kinds of things you need to do. Do you pay your staff enough that they can afford to get a private policy for their families? Perhaps you don't care about them having insurance.

The senate bill provides a $750 penalty for companies that don't provide insurance. For your company, that would be $23,250 in penalties. Compare that to the cost of reducing the size of your business by 33%. Of course, if laying off 1/3 of your workforce is worth more than a $23,250 penalty, I'm not sure why you'd have them employed in the first place.

The insurance companies might not take credits, but I'm sure your accountant could help you find ways to mend the gap.



http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml#fl

I checked the backgrounds of the first two people on that list. One Democrat and one Republican. Both have run small businesses.

You are unreasonable.

[walien]

Perhaps you can outline why people should be forced to have insurance. Beyond your usual nebulous fell-good, social justice liberal blather.

People like me end up paying for people who don't have insurance (last time I checked, people like you) regardless. Pretty simple.

You are unreasonable.

Excellent post. You detailed your argument so well. Perhaps you'd like to outline how I thought that I was unreasonable. I think I made some pretty valid points. Care to outline how they were mistaken? I'd be interested to read that.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by walien

People like me end up paying for people who don't have insurance (last time I checked, people like you) regardless. Pretty simple.



Excellent post. You detailed your argument so well. Perhaps you'd like to outline how I thought that I was unreasonable. I think I made some pretty valid points. Care to outline how they were mistaken? I'd be interested to read that.

I won't argue with you, walien. I don't argue with anyone, I am certain that you are judging my friend when you know next to nothing about his business. I think that is unreasonable.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by walien

People like me end up paying for people who don't have insurance (last time I checked, people like you) regardless. Pretty simple.

So you're complaining that lack of insurnace means you have to pay for my healthcare (as far as I recall, my bills have never been sent to your house), but yet you think gov't run healthcare that includes 17 new taxes is a good idea? You dislike the idea of "paying for my healthcare" but yet you're wetting your pants in anticipation of paying more taxes to pay for everyone's healthcare? Guess that's more of your liberal "logic."

Going by your "logic," then the gov't should provide socialized electric service to everyone because when someone moves and cancels service without paying their final bill, it increases everyone's light bill. Also your "logic" would mean that the gov't should provide car insurance to all of us because when someone drives without insurance and has an accendent, that's another cost eaten by the provider that is passed on to everyone. Or how about the gov't paying for whatever you want to buy in a store, because when someone shoplifts, it drives up the cost paid by the rest of us. Taking your "logic" (and in case you haven't noticed from the quotation marks, in your case I use the term logic very very loosly) to its final conclusion, then we should not pay for anything but rather have everything provided to us by the government. Oh wait, I think there's a name for that, it's called COMMUNISM! How well is that communism working out in Cuba? Or Vietnam? Or North Korea? How well did it work out in the USSR? How well was it working in China before we started trading with them and they modified their system to include aspects of a free market system?

We know what you are. Your attempts to "teach" us the glory of King-Emperor Barack I and his wonderful system of wealth redistribution will not work because we know what it is and we DO NOT WANT MARXISM!

[Gun Geezer]

I deeply resent the government trying to take the freedom of choice from our citizens. People freely choose their lifestyles, occupations, relationships, education, and employment, to name a few. And if they don't work out, they are free to change or accept the responsibility for the consequences of their failures. Why is it that the government is eager to make me responsible for the things that other people won't take ownership of by making me pony up my hard earned dollars to give to those who choose not to work as hard as I do or bear the responsibility for for what they choose to do with their life? Will making me poorer make poor people work harder or be more productive? I think not!

There is no doubt in my mind that the government's main motivation is getting in power and staying in power by pandering to the ever increasing numbers of voters who would rather have a handout than a job. Unfortunately, when you add the bleeding heart liberals into the mix, you end up with enough votes to take your's and my money under the guise of public service.

One day the house of cards that's being built in Washington by the bureaucrats will come crashing down and they will find a way to put the blame on someone else. Til then keep watching reality TV and think how good we have it. Sorry for the rant but I'm old enough to remember the 50's.

[PPK 32]

[QUOTE=walien;572277]Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then. People don't want government healthcare, so if you're going to get everyone covered, these are the kinds of things you need to do. Do you pay your staff enough that they can afford to get a private policy for their families? Perhaps you don't care about them having insurance.


No offense but my problem is not how to insure everyone else, just my people. My staff is insured therefore they do not have to worry about getting coverage. We already pay over 132,000 dollars a year in health, dental, life and eye care. The penalties in one bill would add another 70,000 dollars to expenses. I have a good accountant, but he can't figure out how I am gonna add 70 grand in expenses to a company that won't clear 20 this year. Thanks for your input.

[cakes]

Originally Posted by walien

Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then.

Everyone in the country doesn't want/need insurance. I voluntarily did not have health insurance for about 8 years. I paid my for my healthcare expenses out of my own pocket. I saved A LOT of money by doing this.

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by walien

Perhaps you can outline how to get everyone in the country insurance then...

The problem truly isn't that everyone doesn't have insurance. The problem is that most do have insurance, and they use it for damn near every ailment that comes along that might inconvenience them. My contention is that the insurance industry has caused this disparagement in availability of treatment. When insurance companies are making sweetheart deals for their group members someone who doesn't have any insurance gets screwed. When more insurance is available to all it will only raise the cost of care, and consequently force the reduction of benefits. Supply and demand laws will not be suspended because everyone is insured.

Oh yeah, and those who fall through the current plan and truly have no insurance in the face of a mounting population that does... Yeah, they're REALLY screwed.

One of my agreements in this current healthcare debate is the idea of health care cooperatives as a low-cost alternative to company-sponsored insurance plans. Unfortunately the authors of these bills have not taken the idea seriously. There's nothing to be gained for politicians when citizens form non-profit groups who fend for themselves. No, these politicians want control. Non-profit competition can be a very good thing, such as that displayed in banks vs. credit unions and private utilities versus utility cooperatives. While it's true that this idea would also increase coverage to more people (and probably will hurt those who can afford nothing) it eliminates government intervention through forcefully requiring companies to increase their costs.

I also like the idea of transparency in cost. I don't believe that concept is EVER going to happen as long as insurance exists. Why?... It won't happen because every insurance company/private payer/medicare/medicaid recipient pays something different for the same care.

Walien, Keep in mind too that 'insurance' was bread of Democrat liberal policy. In the 1940s wages were frozen in certain industrial sectors to induce so-called 'fairness' in the war effort. Employers were forced to pay the same to a like worker so they started offering health insurance as a benefit not regulated by the government. It worked, and the employers with the same pay but better 'benefits' got the better workers. Does this seem like deja vu?... You know, the better workers going for the higher price?... Supply and demand, etc....?... Hmmmmmmmm?... So liberal policy sparked the benefits debate even as liberal policy dictated that workers be compensated justly for the same jobs. Hmmm, did that work?... Hell no it didn't. Liberal policy could be blamed justly for all of the current health care crisis that they now want to correct.

[red14]

Originally Posted by pinecone70

You are unreasonable.

Originally Posted by walien

People like me end up paying for people who don't have insurance (last time I checked, people like you) regardless. Pretty simple.
Excellent post. You detailed your argument so well. Perhaps you'd like to outline how I thought that I was unreasonable. I think I made some pretty valid points. Care to outline how they were mistaken? I'd be interested to read that.

Originally Posted by pinecone70

I won't argue with you, walien. I don't argue with anyone, I am certain that you are judging my friend when you know next to nothing about his business. I think that is unreasonable.

My son doesn't have healthcare because he doesn't want it. Nuff said. No one elses opinion matters. This is America, you know, freedom to make our own decisions. When he was on my insurance, he didn't have a claim for 5 years.

Who are you, or anyone, to try to make him have insurance.

If Piney can't reason with you. You are hopeless.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by red14

My son doesn't have healthcare because he doesn't want it. Nuff said. No one elses opinion matters. This is America, you know, freedom to make our own decisions. When he was on my insurance, he didn't have a claim for 5 years.

Who are you, or anyone, to try to make him have insurance.

If Piney can't reason with you. You are hopeless.

My son doesn't have health care.
Seems I make too much money to send him to college full time, and the fed takes my money so illegals can attend.

The economy SUCKS, so he can't get a job, and I can't afford a cobra for him.

How does that work?

Take my hard earned money and give it to Appu and Jose.

Then deny my kid cuz I pay too much in taxes to afford his education.

Land of the free indeed.