Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops - The Firearms Forum

LurpyGeek · 09-17-2008, 01:20 PM

See Story Here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/17/atf...uns/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Wednesday it is changing its ways after an audit showed that the agency was losing guns and laptops, often through carelessness.
ATF Director Michael Sullivan says the agency is revising its procedures on lost weapons and laptops.

ATF Director Michael Sullivan says the agency is revising its procedures on lost weapons and laptops.

According to a Justice Department audit released Wednesday, the inspector general reported the ATF was unable to account for 76 weapons and 418 laptops over the past five years.

The report said the rate of loss had tripled since the last audit was conducted by the ATF's then-parent agency, the Treasury Department.

"It is especially troubling that ATF's rate of loss for weapons was nearly double that of the FBI and DEA," the report said.

ATF Director Michael Sullivan said he agreed with most of the report's findings.

"We are revising our procedures of reporting losses of weapons or laptops," Sullivan said.

Of the 76 missing weapons, 35 were stolen from agents' homes, hotel rooms or vehicles, the report said. Some of the others were left in public places or lost in shipping -- or their losses were still unexplained.

Two of the stolen guns were used to commit crimes, the report said. One was used to shoot through the window of a residence, and the other was recovered from suspects arrested on burglary charges.

The inspector general determined that 53 percent of the weapon losses were the result of employees' carelessness or failure to follow ATF policies.

Of the 418 laptops, 50 were reported stolen.

The report said that in most cases, it was not clear whether the missing laptops contained sensitive or classified information. Seven did; 13 did not.

"ATF could not provide adequate information" about the contents of the other 398, the report said, and therefore, "ATF could not assess what damage these losses could have had on ATF's operations or national security."

Few, if any, of the missing laptops had the data encrypted, according to the report.

The ATF has nearly 5,000 agents, more than 7,500 laptops and more than 22,000 weapons, the report said.

--

Wonder if any of my info was on those laptops... what about you?

LDBennett · 09-17-2008, 02:24 PM

OK. I "loose" a gun and all of the BATF crunches down on me. What happened to those responsible in the BATF for the weapons and the US property lost by them? Nothing, I would guess! Rules are for the great unwashed masses, not the elite government employees.

What if those that lost the laptops were made to relaced them or pay for them? I'll bet few would get stolen then.

What if those that had the reponsibility for the lost guns were made criminally responsible? I'd bet fewer would get "lost". The government is all over me if I "loose" a gun from my collection (because I did not secure it properly, like in a safe) but government officials who more than likely had evidence firearms get no repercussions from the loss?

LDBennett

Tom Militano · 09-17-2008, 03:13 PM

Probably promoted them.

Terry_P · 09-17-2008, 04:19 PM

BATF goes into dealers like Red's and tries to shut down their business because of technical violations like using the two character state abbreviation rather than writing out the full name of the state and this is how they conduct business? Is anyone really surprised? I have thought they needed a wing clipping for years.

LDBennett · 09-17-2008, 04:52 PM

Those that gravitate towards working for government agencies, I believe, are incapable of holding down real jobs and/or are on a power quest.

I have zero respect for the firearms division of the BATF. Remember Waco? And the poor guy that lost his wife and one of his kids in a BATF raid prompted by an undercover attempt by the BATF to entrap him, as the court later determind. So the agents failed to do the right thing and get promoted for incompetence and poor judgement....That's the government for you!

It has been the time for a long time for the BATF to get their "wings clipped".

LDBennett

Marlin T · 09-17-2008, 06:07 PM

Shoot, they will most likely receive metals. This kind of double standard is truly sickening!

Wings clipped? How about having their wings chopped completely off? Twice

LurpyGeek · 09-17-2008, 10:12 PM

I think it's funny (not ha ha funny) that a lot of anti-gunners claim that one reason that we need more laws and fewer firearms is because they will be stolen from law abiding citizens and used for crime.

Well, we now know that they are more likely to be "lost" by the agency tasked with enforcing those laws.

09-17-2008, 01:20 PM	#1
LurpyGeek Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UT Posts: 1,436	Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops See Story Here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/17/atf...uns/index.html WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Wednesday it is changing its ways after an audit showed that the agency was losing guns and laptops, often through carelessness. ATF Director Michael Sullivan says the agency is revising its procedures on lost weapons and laptops. ATF Director Michael Sullivan says the agency is revising its procedures on lost weapons and laptops. According to a Justice Department audit released Wednesday, the inspector general reported the ATF was unable to account for 76 weapons and 418 laptops over the past five years. The report said the rate of loss had tripled since the last audit was conducted by the ATF's then-parent agency, the Treasury Department. "It is especially troubling that ATF's rate of loss for weapons was nearly double that of the FBI and DEA," the report said. ATF Director Michael Sullivan said he agreed with most of the report's findings. "We are revising our procedures of reporting losses of weapons or laptops," Sullivan said. Of the 76 missing weapons, 35 were stolen from agents' homes, hotel rooms or vehicles, the report said. Some of the others were left in public places or lost in shipping -- or their losses were still unexplained. Two of the stolen guns were used to commit crimes, the report said. One was used to shoot through the window of a residence, and the other was recovered from suspects arrested on burglary charges. The inspector general determined that 53 percent of the weapon losses were the result of employees' carelessness or failure to follow ATF policies. Of the 418 laptops, 50 were reported stolen. The report said that in most cases, it was not clear whether the missing laptops contained sensitive or classified information. Seven did; 13 did not. "ATF could not provide adequate information" about the contents of the other 398, the report said, and therefore, "ATF could not assess what damage these losses could have had on ATF's operations or national security." Few, if any, of the missing laptops had the data encrypted, according to the report. The ATF has nearly 5,000 agents, more than 7,500 laptops and more than 22,000 weapons, the report said. -- Wonder if any of my info was on those laptops... what about you? __________________ Knowing is half the battle... Of course, the other half is violence. -->

09-17-2008, 02:24 PM	#2
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,719	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops OK. I "loose" a gun and all of the BATF crunches down on me. What happened to those responsible in the BATF for the weapons and the US property lost by them? Nothing, I would guess! Rules are for the great unwashed masses, not the elite government employees. What if those that lost the laptops were made to relaced them or pay for them? I'll bet few would get stolen then. What if those that had the reponsibility for the lost guns were made criminally responsible? I'd bet fewer would get "lost". The government is all over me if I "loose" a gun from my collection (because I did not secure it properly, like in a safe) but government officials who more than likely had evidence firearms get no repercussions from the loss? LDBennett

09-17-2008, 03:13 PM	#3
Tom Militano Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jacksonville, AL Posts: 1,255	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops Probably promoted them.

09-17-2008, 04:19 PM	#4
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops BATF goes into dealers like Red's and tries to shut down their business because of technical violations like using the two character state abbreviation rather than writing out the full name of the state and this is how they conduct business? Is anyone really surprised? I have thought they needed a wing clipping for years. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

09-17-2008, 04:52 PM	#5
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,719	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops Those that gravitate towards working for government agencies, I believe, are incapable of holding down real jobs and/or are on a power quest. I have zero respect for the firearms division of the BATF. Remember Waco? And the poor guy that lost his wife and one of his kids in a BATF raid prompted by an undercover attempt by the BATF to entrap him, as the court later determind. So the agents failed to do the right thing and get promoted for incompetence and poor judgement....That's the government for you! It has been the time for a long time for the BATF to get their "wings clipped". LDBennett

09-17-2008, 06:07 PM	#6
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops Shoot, they will most likely receive metals. This kind of double standard is truly sickening! Wings clipped? How about having their wings chopped completely off? Twice __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

09-17-2008, 10:12 PM	#7
LurpyGeek Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UT Posts: 1,436	Re: Great and Noble BATFE Loses 76 Firearms and 418 Laptops I think it's funny (not ha ha funny) that a lot of anti-gunners claim that one reason that we need more laws and fewer firearms is because they will be stolen from law abiding citizens and used for crime. Well, we now know that they are more likely to be "lost" by the agency tasked with enforcing those laws. __________________ Knowing is half the battle... Of course, the other half is violence.