Cops called because student discussed guns in class - The Firearms Forum

satellite66 · 03-05-2009, 02:36 PM

Professor Takes Heat for Calling Cops on Student Who Discussed Guns in Class

Wednesday, March 04, 2009
By Maxim Lott

A professor in Connecticut reported one of her students to the police after he gave a class presentation on why students and teachers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. Now, free speech activists say the professor’s actions are what really need to be investigated.

Last October, John Wahlberg and two classmates at Central Connecticut State University gave an oral presentation for a communications class taught by Professor Paula Anderson. The assignment was to discuss a “relevant issue in the media,” and the students presented their view that the death toll in the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre would have been lower if professors and students had been carrying guns.

That night, police called Wahlberg, a 23-year-old senior, and asked him to come to the station. When he arrived, they they read off a list of firearms that were registered in his name and asked where he kept them. Guns are strictly prohibited on the CCSU campus and residence halls, but Wahlberg says he lives 20 miles off-campus and keeps his gun collection locked up in a safe. No further action was taken by police or administrators.

“I don’t think that Professor Anderson was justified in calling the CCSU police over a clearly non-threatening matter,” Wahlberg told The Recorder, the CCSU student newspaper that first reported the story. “Although the topic of discussion may have made a few individuals uncomfortable, there was no need to label me as a threat.”

Wahlberg declined to comment further to FOXNews.com, saying he did not want more media attention.

According to The Recorder, Anderson cited safety as her reason for calling the police.

“It is also my responsibility as a teacher to protect the well-being of our students, and the campus community at all times,” she told The Recorder. “As such, when deemed necessary because of any perceived risks, I seek guidance and consultation from the Chair of my Department, the Dean and any relevant University officials.”

Anderson did not respond to calls from FOXNews.com. Campus police forwarded requests to university spokesman Mark McLaughlin, who declined to comment, citing Wahlberg’s privacy.

Robert Shibley, vice president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), said Anderson's actions appeared to be out of line.

“If all he did was discuss reasons for allowing guns on campus, it seems a bit much to call the police and grill him about it,” Shibley said. “If you go after students for just discussing an idea, that goes against everything a university is supposed to stand for.”

Shibley said FIRE has seen many more cases of hair-trigger responses by administrators over anything gun-related since the Virginia Tech shooting.

In 2007, Shibley noted, a student at Hamline University in Minnesota was suspended after writing a letter to an administrator arguing that carrying concealed weapons on campus may help prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech. The student was allowed to return only after undergoing a psychological evaluation, he said.

Shibley also cited an incident at Colorado College last year in which campus administrators denounced a flyer as "threatening and demeaning content" because it mentioned guns. He said the students who produced the flyer were found guilty of violating the school’s violence policy, which was added to their school records.

“It is, of course, important that administrators identify real threats to students,” Shibley said. “But they need to use logic to discern whether a threat is real.”

But Jerold Duquette, an associate professor of political science at CCSU who sits on the Faculty Senate Committee on Academic Freedom, say the Wahlberg case is not so clear-cut.

“This is a situation where both sides can come up with a reasonable explanation,” Duquette said.

“[Wahlberg] certainly has a reason to complain, since he didn’t do anything directly threatening. But I wouldn’t say the administration has a reason to sanction or punish the professor or the police.... I don’t know if I would have done anything differently in the situation.”

Katie Kasprzak, a spokeswoman for the group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, suggested that the professor called the police because she disagreed with Wahlberg’s political views.

"Critics of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus argue that colleges and universities are dedicated to the free flow of ideas,” she said. “Yet when a student gives a class presentation on a relevant issue in the media, it is acceptable to label the student as a threat? The only threat posed was a threat to the professor’s personal beliefs.”

Duquette said there was no evidence to support that.

“I think a lot of people see this as a liberal professor going after a student because he likes guns. I don’t know if that’s the case,” Duquette said, adding that more would need to be known about the incident.

Link

jacksonco · 03-05-2009, 02:48 PM

Common sense got thrown out with the dishwater. Zero tolorance anything is as stupid as anything a person could ever dream up.

There is never black and white for any rule or policy. There is always a shade of gray where the two meet up and sadly this teachers actions were no where near the gray area. What she did is wrong. If she had other reasons to be concerned about this student she should of had a sit down with him and determine if there was any threat.

From the info in this thread I can see no justifiable reason to notify the police. I will give the police an A+ for calling the student and asking him to come to the station rather than busting down his door in the middle of the night to arrest him. At least the police were using good judgement in this situation that should have never been.

Jeff

SaddleSarge · 03-05-2009, 03:13 PM

The teacher (term used loosely) should be fired as that is tantamount to yelling "fire" in the movie show. I know she won't or can't be, but it would sure be nice.

But look how we as a society have degraded ourselves as well as trivialized the role of the police, and/or use the subject matter in conjunction with the police to promote a personal agenda, or is so clueless and wants to absolve themselves of any responsibility in the minutest situation where they can say, "I called the cops and they didn't do anything." I'm sure the officers involved in this one were rolling their eyes, but they must follow up and obviously made the right determination of the accusation being unfounded for any further action since NO LAWS WERE BROKEN.

(Coming home the other day I heard a neighboring agency get a call from an adult who wanted to speak with a deputy and file a complaint because a juvenile gave her the finger.

)

glocknut · 03-05-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaddleSarge

(Coming home the other day I heard a neighboring agency get a call from an adult who wanted to speak with a deputy and file a complaint because a juvenile gave her the finger.

)

Back in Arkansas i heard several people talking about someone flipping to bird to an LEO was probable cause for being detained. I thought they were BSing until i read something about it in the newspaper. There was an incident over the subject i guess?

Our nation has become so weak/feeble minded that i am getting very leery of people these days...

mike
gn

bluesea112 · 03-05-2009, 10:45 PM

That guy should return the favor by reporting her for dicrimination and for violating his constitutional right of free speech. What a dumb b...h!

1shot1k · 03-05-2009, 11:00 PM

out with dishwater is right........

when I was reading this (another good one Satellite66) the music..I swear was playin in my head..."are you goin to San Franscisco...then " there's somethin happnin here..what it is aint exactly clear..." then pictures of mobs and mobs of "BERKLEY" students were lynching this teacher...for even thinkin about supressing free speach......then......wow....

"u know, any flash back without chopper sounds " "is a good flashback".......u may quote me.......

good friends..with a daughter and 2 little granddaughters starting school and the news ..and of course, daughter just started "teaching carrer"...i do understand the zero tolerance mentallity and finger on trigger actions.....but we must treat this particular incident as the many others of an "idiot " teacher who would be the "idiot" in any other job.....

down here ..we've seen the reverse too...teachers spanked for talkin gun talk.....so who knows ?

KING64 · 03-06-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satellite66

“It is also my responsibility as a teacher to protect the well-being of our students, and the campus community at all times,” (Professor Paula Anderson)

My question to her: How are you going to protect them when some wackjob wanders on to campus hacking students with a machete or any other type of weapon available to such nutcases? She seems so concerned about protecting the students do you suppose she will run out and disarm the assailant? Or will she wait for someone with a firearm?

gdmoody · 03-06-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING64

My question to her: How are you going to protect them when some wackjob wanders on to campus hacking students with a machete or any other type of weapon available to such nutcases? She seems so concerned about protecting the students do you suppose she will run out and disarm the assailant? Or will she wait for someone with a firearm?

She will be under her desk, trembling with fear and yes, she will wait for someone with a firearm. She will then be the loudest one protesting the shooting of the assailant.

KING64 · 03-06-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmoody

She will then be the loudest one protesting the shooting of the assailant.

And will criticize whoever shot the assailant for not shooting him in the leg, or arm, or toe or his right ear or some stupid thing. It infuriates me no end when there is criticism of police, or any armed individual, for not placing a "non-lethal" shot at an armed aggressor. There was an actual statement made by a local individual after a police shooting of an armed and threatening man for not having "grazed" him as that would have "made him drop his weapon and grab his wound."

Try that one the next time you are threatened with lethal force by an assailant.

LDBennett · 03-06-2009, 02:35 PM

While this teacher was way off base for calling the police I think the police were a bit off base as well.

Why should anyone go "downtown" for such an inquiry? If the COPs want to talk, the phone ought to suffice or a visit to the guys front door. And what right do they have to question anyone as why that person has a legal firearm? If they have information that the guns are illegal or were on campus where it was illegal then the COPs need to get a search warrant. In this case no judge would ever issue a search warrant because a student , using his right of free speech, advocates guns on campus for protection. The COPs should have dismissed this immediatley and done nothing. No crime was done! They most certainly should have not requested the student to go to the police department or should they have asked him why he owned guns. The answer to this question is the Second Amendment.

This paranoia about gun ownership distress me no end. It ranks right up there with "Politically Correct".

LDBennett

KING64 · 03-06-2009, 06:00 PM

I am certainly critical of the "teacher" for having elevated a non-issue to the level of calling LE. She could have talked with the student privately and he could have responded as he chose with respect to the location of the firearms.

I don't know if I am that concerned about the student being questioned (voluntary response) as to where he kept the firearms. Unless I missed it, it sounds like campus police were the ones the teacher notified. If so it was probably a reasonable inquiry by campus police to determine if the firearms were kept on campus or at another location. Most campus rules prohibit the possession of firearms on campus. Now, that is another story entirely and is one that is being challenged in several venues, as well it should be.

If it was the local police who were called, and had I been the watch commander at the time,I would have referred it back to campus police and not bothered to dispatch or make any further inquiry.

Gewehrwolf · 03-06-2009, 06:14 PM

Heavens above...............How can we be talking about E-VIL guns in a classroom when we need to be disscussing how to put on a condom or gay rights.......or oh my gosh..........GLOBAL WARMING

How much longer till this country is totally turned over to the people that want see it destroyed??????????

Bruce FLinch · 03-06-2009, 08:57 PM

I'd like to post a sign in that Professors yard. "Unarmed & Stupid"

03-05-2009, 02:36 PM	#1
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Cops called because student discussed guns in class Professor Takes Heat for Calling Cops on Student Who Discussed Guns in Class Wednesday, March 04, 2009 By Maxim Lott A professor in Connecticut reported one of her students to the police after he gave a class presentation on why students and teachers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. Now, free speech activists say the professor’s actions are what really need to be investigated. Last October, John Wahlberg and two classmates at Central Connecticut State University gave an oral presentation for a communications class taught by Professor Paula Anderson. The assignment was to discuss a “relevant issue in the media,” and the students presented their view that the death toll in the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre would have been lower if professors and students had been carrying guns. That night, police called Wahlberg, a 23-year-old senior, and asked him to come to the station. When he arrived, they they read off a list of firearms that were registered in his name and asked where he kept them. Guns are strictly prohibited on the CCSU campus and residence halls, but Wahlberg says he lives 20 miles off-campus and keeps his gun collection locked up in a safe. No further action was taken by police or administrators. “I don’t think that Professor Anderson was justified in calling the CCSU police over a clearly non-threatening matter,” Wahlberg told The Recorder, the CCSU student newspaper that first reported the story. “Although the topic of discussion may have made a few individuals uncomfortable, there was no need to label me as a threat.” Wahlberg declined to comment further to FOXNews.com, saying he did not want more media attention. According to The Recorder, Anderson cited safety as her reason for calling the police. “It is also my responsibility as a teacher to protect the well-being of our students, and the campus community at all times,” she told The Recorder. “As such, when deemed necessary because of any perceived risks, I seek guidance and consultation from the Chair of my Department, the Dean and any relevant University officials.” Anderson did not respond to calls from FOXNews.com. Campus police forwarded requests to university spokesman Mark McLaughlin, who declined to comment, citing Wahlberg’s privacy. Robert Shibley, vice president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), said Anderson's actions appeared to be out of line. “If all he did was discuss reasons for allowing guns on campus, it seems a bit much to call the police and grill him about it,” Shibley said. “If you go after students for just discussing an idea, that goes against everything a university is supposed to stand for.” Shibley said FIRE has seen many more cases of hair-trigger responses by administrators over anything gun-related since the Virginia Tech shooting. In 2007, Shibley noted, a student at Hamline University in Minnesota was suspended after writing a letter to an administrator arguing that carrying concealed weapons on campus may help prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech. The student was allowed to return only after undergoing a psychological evaluation, he said. Shibley also cited an incident at Colorado College last year in which campus administrators denounced a flyer as "threatening and demeaning content" because it mentioned guns. He said the students who produced the flyer were found guilty of violating the school’s violence policy, which was added to their school records. “It is, of course, important that administrators identify real threats to students,” Shibley said. “But they need to use logic to discern whether a threat is real.” But Jerold Duquette, an associate professor of political science at CCSU who sits on the Faculty Senate Committee on Academic Freedom, say the Wahlberg case is not so clear-cut. “This is a situation where both sides can come up with a reasonable explanation,” Duquette said. “[Wahlberg] certainly has a reason to complain, since he didn’t do anything directly threatening. But I wouldn’t say the administration has a reason to sanction or punish the professor or the police.... I don’t know if I would have done anything differently in the situation.” Katie Kasprzak, a spokeswoman for the group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, suggested that the professor called the police because she disagreed with Wahlberg’s political views. "Critics of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus argue that colleges and universities are dedicated to the free flow of ideas,” she said. “Yet when a student gives a class presentation on a relevant issue in the media, it is acceptable to label the student as a threat? The only threat posed was a threat to the professor’s personal beliefs.” Duquette said there was no evidence to support that. “I think a lot of people see this as a liberal professor going after a student because he likes guns. I don’t know if that’s the case,” Duquette said, adding that more would need to be known about the incident. Link __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948 -->

03-05-2009, 02:48 PM	#2
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class Common sense got thrown out with the dishwater. Zero tolorance anything is as stupid as anything a person could ever dream up. There is never black and white for any rule or policy. There is always a shade of gray where the two meet up and sadly this teachers actions were no where near the gray area. What she did is wrong. If she had other reasons to be concerned about this student she should of had a sit down with him and determine if there was any threat. From the info in this thread I can see no justifiable reason to notify the police. I will give the police an A+ for calling the student and asking him to come to the station rather than busting down his door in the middle of the night to arrest him. At least the police were using good judgement in this situation that should have never been. Jeff

03-05-2009, 03:13 PM	#3
SaddleSarge Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,025	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class The teacher (term used loosely) should be fired as that is tantamount to yelling "fire" in the movie show. I know she won't or can't be, but it would sure be nice. But look how we as a society have degraded ourselves as well as trivialized the role of the police, and/or use the subject matter in conjunction with the police to promote a personal agenda, or is so clueless and wants to absolve themselves of any responsibility in the minutest situation where they can say, "I called the cops and they didn't do anything." I'm sure the officers involved in this one were rolling their eyes, but they must follow up and obviously made the right determination of the accusation being unfounded for any further action since NO LAWS WERE BROKEN. (Coming home the other day I heard a neighboring agency get a call from an adult who wanted to speak with a deputy and file a complaint because a juvenile gave her the finger.) Last edited by SaddleSarge; 03-05-2009 at 03:15 PM.. Reason: ()

03-05-2009, 10:45 PM	#5
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class That guy should return the favor by reporting her for dicrimination and for violating his constitutional right of free speech. What a dumb b...h!

03-05-2009, 11:00 PM	#6
1shot1k Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 904	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class out with dishwater is right........ when I was reading this (another good one Satellite66) the music..I swear was playin in my head..."are you goin to San Franscisco...then " there's somethin happnin here..what it is aint exactly clear..." then pictures of mobs and mobs of "BERKLEY" students were lynching this teacher...for even thinkin about supressing free speach......then......wow.... "u know, any flash back without chopper sounds " "is a good flashback".......u may quote me....... good friends..with a daughter and 2 little granddaughters starting school and the news ..and of course, daughter just started "teaching carrer"...i do understand the zero tolerance mentallity and finger on trigger actions.....but we must treat this particular incident as the many others of an "idiot " teacher who would be the "idiot" in any other job..... down here ..we've seen the reverse too...teachers spanked for talkin gun talk.....so who knows ?

03-06-2009, 02:35 PM	#10
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,719	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class While this teacher was way off base for calling the police I think the police were a bit off base as well. Why should anyone go "downtown" for such an inquiry? If the COPs want to talk, the phone ought to suffice or a visit to the guys front door. And what right do they have to question anyone as why that person has a legal firearm? If they have information that the guns are illegal or were on campus where it was illegal then the COPs need to get a search warrant. In this case no judge would ever issue a search warrant because a student , using his right of free speech, advocates guns on campus for protection. The COPs should have dismissed this immediatley and done nothing. No crime was done! They most certainly should have not requested the student to go to the police department or should they have asked him why he owned guns. The answer to this question is the Second Amendment. This paranoia about gun ownership distress me no end. It ranks right up there with "Politically Correct". LDBennett

03-06-2009, 06:00 PM	#11
KING64 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 517	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class I am certainly critical of the "teacher" for having elevated a non-issue to the level of calling LE. She could have talked with the student privately and he could have responded as he chose with respect to the location of the firearms. I don't know if I am that concerned about the student being questioned (voluntary response) as to where he kept the firearms. Unless I missed it, it sounds like campus police were the ones the teacher notified. If so it was probably a reasonable inquiry by campus police to determine if the firearms were kept on campus or at another location. Most campus rules prohibit the possession of firearms on campus. Now, that is another story entirely and is one that is being challenged in several venues, as well it should be. If it was the local police who were called, and had I been the watch commander at the time,I would have referred it back to campus police and not bothered to dispatch or make any further inquiry. __________________ Conlige suspectos semper habitos Last edited by KING64; 03-06-2009 at 06:04 PM..

03-06-2009, 06:14 PM	#12
Gewehrwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 47	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class Heavens above...............How can we be talking about E-VIL guns in a classroom when we need to be disscussing how to put on a condom or gay rights.......or oh my gosh..........GLOBAL WARMING How much longer till this country is totally turned over to the people that want see it destroyed?????????? __________________ " A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." (John Stewart Mill)

03-06-2009, 08:57 PM	#13
Bruce FLinch Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Point, Kali..aka Gun Point Posts: 5,016	Re: Cops called because student discussed guns in class I'd like to post a sign in that Professors yard. "Unarmed & Stupid" __________________ A bad day @ the Range, is better than a good day @ work.