Animal Graveyards - The Firearms Forum

tman1234 · 04-06-2003, 11:59 AM

Something I had completely forgotten about, until I started writing about my experiences in the Gulf were the animal graveyards we saw when we first got to Saudi in late August of 1991.

We were moved to a forward position somewhere in Saudi Arabia to provide Air Defense for the Apache units. We were beside an airfield outside of some medium size town, and the whole area was littered with animal carcases, camels, goats, and sheep.

We asked about this at the time, and we were told that is where the animals were taken when they were severely sick, or dead. Sounded reasonable at the age of 19.

At the age of 32, I think back and find this really odd. First of all, if that is what they do with their livestock, I don't think it would be at an airfield. Also, I would think they would eat the animals before they died, and use the hides etc. People still do that in other parts of the world. I just can't see these poor people throwing away such a resource of food and material.

After thinking about it some more, I remember noticing that no carrion creatures or insects would have anything to do with these carcases. No flies, no camel spiders (that feed on dead carcases), no birds, no nothing. This seems to indicate that they were contaminated in some way. Possibly there had been a chemical weapon attack of some kind before we ever got there.

Does anyone else have a similar story, or more importantly pictures of something like this? I was with the 101st, and the 18th Airborne Corp. I have some pics of our position there, but none that show all the dead animals. Like I said, I guess at the age of 19 I couldn't make the kinds of connections I can now. I just trusted what was told to me.

More memories to come.

280freak · 04-06-2003, 04:03 PM

Tman1234 -

That is strange, no flies, bugs, etc. on dead animals. Weird. It will be interesting to see if anybody has any ideas on this.

Before I forget, welcome to the forum, and thank you very much for your service to our country. I'm not a Vet, myself. My only brother did a stint in lovely Southeast Asia, but my draft number was just high enough to allow me to give that one a pass if I so chose.

I was all set to join up, but my folks asked me to stay out of the service and start taking over the family farm, since older brother was already overseas. Always wonder if I would have had what it takes, but at 50 years old now, I guess I'll never know!

Post more of your memories as they occur to you, interesting reading even for those of us who didn't share your experiences.

tman1234 · 04-07-2003, 09:58 AM

Thanks for your gratitude! Lately I've been feeling pretty low, wishing we would have done the job while we were there, and the enemy was already devastated, but that wasn't the objective.

I'm sure you would have had what it takes, the proof is in your dedication to your family, Your parents needed one of you to stay around, or I'm sure it would have been even more unbearable for them worrying about both their sons.

Thanks for the welcome, and I will try to direct some more people here. I'm really active in some Gulf War forums, and as I post more here, you will get to hear my stories of Desert Storm, and the real battles which have taken place long after my time in the service, fighting our own government rather than a foreign enemy.

TF118 · 04-07-2003, 10:51 PM

Hi tman1234…it’s good to see another Gulf War Veteran here ….I’ve been keeping company with some really good people here @ TFF & VMBB ….I came along at just the right time and as they opened this new site they added GWVB and expanded the Veteran boards for all …regarding your post...I have also seen these carcass’s without fly’s or other insects…there’s only one good explanation in my mind…chemical warfare agents…I posted a picture for you in the GW PHOTO’S section …DEAD CAMMEL…NO FLY’S …soon we will be able to post photo’s here sorry for any inconvenience …the Admin has done an excellent job getting the site up & is still working 24/7 getting everything worked out & he’s done nothing short of working miracles...hope to keep seeing ya !!
Now that the photo box has been added the cammel pic is posted below ...burger anyone ?

tman1234 · 04-08-2003, 08:16 AM

Thanks for the welcome, I like this board, as there are many forums to post on.

I watched a show on Discovery Times chanel last night, that showed the almost exact thing at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah. Lots of dead sheep with no flies.

The use of chemical weapons is the only possible cause I can ascertain for this, as the flies and other carrion creatures normally survive on these things. They knew something we didn't. Since having that memory, I know I'll pay far more attention to mother nature.

I'll check out the pic.

Shizamus · 04-09-2003, 12:26 AM

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/

removed non active hyperlink to same URL - ruffitt

Admin · 04-09-2003, 07:11 PM

We are one under the sun, what I mean is that there is no
better feeling than to see what I see between brothers here!

I think TF & Shiz will get more out of what I'm trying to say, but
maybe you will all get it!

Carry on my friends, work together in the name of love!

ruffitt · 04-10-2003, 03:32 AM

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be - brother helpiing brother standing back to back or side by side to look out for each other!!

THE BROTHERHOOD exists, and it makes its presence known here.

TF118 · 04-25-2003, 11:04 PM

And now we have the photo capability on this forum ...here's the cammel refered to in my earlier post above

tman1234 · 04-26-2003, 06:55 AM

I can't tell for sure, but aren't those more dead camels in the background? It's like I was talking about, except where I was at there were hundreds of them.

TF118 · 04-26-2003, 10:47 AM

Not all of'em tman...

Artillery Mech · 02-02-2004, 01:09 PM

tman, I went into Iraq with the 24th ID via Rafha, Saudi Arabia. My job was to bring back vehicles that were destroyed or disabled. After the cease-fire, I had to go into Iraq and bring back the vehicles that were abandoned. On one of my trips out, I drove through an area, about five acres, that had those sheep/goat critters. You know the ones that looked like goats but were wooly like sheep? These critters were dead but had no wounds. I got out and checked them out. One of the things I noticed, on top of no wounds were there no flies or other insects in the area. There were no crows or rats either. In other places around towns, there were rats and ravens/crows eating the dead. But not where the goat/sheep were.

Here's the kicker. On the return trip, someone was putting constitina wire around the area with signs saying the area was contaminated. They told us to see the medics when we got back and to keep a close watch over each other. They never did say what was the contamination.

tman1234 · 02-03-2004, 07:11 AM

That is a kicker, that would make for good pics if anyone had them. I guess we just got used to it while we were there at the airfield, and once we left for another position, I guess we just kind of forgot about it all, at least I did, until I started writing about my experiences over there and remembered not too long ago. So many similar stories, yet the govt. rarely mentions these observations so many of us had.

Artillery Mech · 02-04-2004, 10:20 AM

A bud of mine reminded me of something that happened. We had a lamb come into our logbase before the groundwar. About a day or two afterwards, it died. We tossed it a ways away from the logbase. I guess someone found it because a bunch of guys came over wearing their NBC suits and took the thing away. We never heard what become of the dead lamb. I think he got pictures of the lamb prior to it dieing. If I remember correctly, it was pretty lethargic before it died.

04-06-2003, 11:59 AM	#1
tman1234 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Campbellsville, KY Posts: 31	Animal Graveyards Something I had completely forgotten about, until I started writing about my experiences in the Gulf were the animal graveyards we saw when we first got to Saudi in late August of 1991. We were moved to a forward position somewhere in Saudi Arabia to provide Air Defense for the Apache units. We were beside an airfield outside of some medium size town, and the whole area was littered with animal carcases, camels, goats, and sheep. We asked about this at the time, and we were told that is where the animals were taken when they were severely sick, or dead. Sounded reasonable at the age of 19. At the age of 32, I think back and find this really odd. First of all, if that is what they do with their livestock, I don't think it would be at an airfield. Also, I would think they would eat the animals before they died, and use the hides etc. People still do that in other parts of the world. I just can't see these poor people throwing away such a resource of food and material. After thinking about it some more, I remember noticing that no carrion creatures or insects would have anything to do with these carcases. No flies, no camel spiders (that feed on dead carcases), no birds, no nothing. This seems to indicate that they were contaminated in some way. Possibly there had been a chemical weapon attack of some kind before we ever got there. Does anyone else have a similar story, or more importantly pictures of something like this? I was with the 101st, and the 18th Airborne Corp. I have some pics of our position there, but none that show all the dead animals. Like I said, I guess at the age of 19 I couldn't make the kinds of connections I can now. I just trusted what was told to me. More memories to come. __________________ "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire -->

04-07-2003, 09:58 AM	#3
tman1234 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Campbellsville, KY Posts: 31	Thanks for your gratitude! Lately I've been feeling pretty low, wishing we would have done the job while we were there, and the enemy was already devastated, but that wasn't the objective. I'm sure you would have had what it takes, the proof is in your dedication to your family, Your parents needed one of you to stay around, or I'm sure it would have been even more unbearable for them worrying about both their sons. Thanks for the welcome, and I will try to direct some more people here. I'm really active in some Gulf War forums, and as I post more here, you will get to hear my stories of Desert Storm, and the real battles which have taken place long after my time in the service, fighting our own government rather than a foreign enemy. __________________ "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire

04-07-2003, 10:51 PM	#4
TF118 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: VERMONT Posts: 437	Hi tman1234…it’s good to see another Gulf War Veteran here ….I’ve been keeping company with some really good people here @ TFF & VMBB ….I came along at just the right time and as they opened this new site they added GWVB and expanded the Veteran boards for all …regarding your post...I have also seen these carcass’s without fly’s or other insects…there’s only one good explanation in my mind…chemical warfare agents…I posted a picture for you in the GW PHOTO’S section …DEAD CAMMEL…NO FLY’S …soon we will be able to post photo’s here sorry for any inconvenience …the Admin has done an excellent job getting the site up & is still working 24/7 getting everything worked out & he’s done nothing short of working miracles...hope to keep seeing ya !! Now that the photo box has been added the cammel pic is posted below ...burger anyone ? __________________ Click here to visit the Gulf War Veteran forums Last edited by TF118; 04-25-2003 at 11:08 PM..

04-08-2003, 08:16 AM	#5
tman1234 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Campbellsville, KY Posts: 31	Thanks for the welcome, I like this board, as there are many forums to post on. I watched a show on Discovery Times chanel last night, that showed the almost exact thing at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah. Lots of dead sheep with no flies. The use of chemical weapons is the only possible cause I can ascertain for this, as the flies and other carrion creatures normally survive on these things. They knew something we didn't. Since having that memory, I know I'll pay far more attention to mother nature. I'll check out the pic. __________________ "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire

04-09-2003, 12:26 AM	#6
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	http://www.gulfwarvets.com/ removed non active hyperlink to same URL - ruffitt Last edited by ruffitt; 04-10-2003 at 03:29 AM..

04-06-2003, 04:03 PM	#2
280freak Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sitting at my computer Posts: 1,581	Tman1234 - That is strange, no flies, bugs, etc. on dead animals. Weird. It will be interesting to see if anybody has any ideas on this. Before I forget, welcome to the forum, and thank you very much for your service to our country. I'm not a Vet, myself. My only brother did a stint in lovely Southeast Asia, but my draft number was just high enough to allow me to give that one a pass if I so chose. I was all set to join up, but my folks asked me to stay out of the service and start taking over the family farm, since older brother was already overseas. Always wonder if I would have had what it takes, but at 50 years old now, I guess I'll never know! Post more of your memories as they occur to you, interesting reading even for those of us who didn't share your experiences.

04-09-2003, 07:11 PM	#7
Admin Site Network Webmaster Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Site Control Panel Posts: 11,654	We are one under the sun, what I mean is that there is no better feeling than to see what I see between brothers here! I think TF & Shiz will get more out of what I'm trying to say, but maybe you will all get it! Carry on my friends, work together in the name of love!

04-10-2003, 03:32 AM	#8
ruffitt TFF Admin Staff In Heaven Now Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sparta, MI / Now In Heaven Also Posts: 2,880	Isn't that the way it's supposed to be - brother helpiing brother standing back to back or side by side to look out for each other!! THE BROTHERHOOD exists, and it makes its presence known here. __________________ Any politician who doesn't trust me to own a weapon is not someone worthy of my vote, my respect, ~~ or my tax dollars.

04-25-2003, 11:04 PM	#9
TF118 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: VERMONT Posts: 437	And now we have the photo capability on this forum ...here's the cammel refered to in my earlier post above Attached Images __________________ Click here to visit the Gulf War Veteran forums

04-26-2003, 06:55 AM	#10
tman1234 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Campbellsville, KY Posts: 31	I can't tell for sure, but aren't those more dead camels in the background? It's like I was talking about, except where I was at there were hundreds of them. __________________ "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire

04-26-2003, 10:47 AM	#11
TF118 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: VERMONT Posts: 437	Not all of'em tman... __________________ Click here to visit the Gulf War Veteran forums

02-02-2004, 01:09 PM	#12
Artillery Mech Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Pac North-west Posts: 49	tman, I went into Iraq with the 24th ID via Rafha, Saudi Arabia. My job was to bring back vehicles that were destroyed or disabled. After the cease-fire, I had to go into Iraq and bring back the vehicles that were abandoned. On one of my trips out, I drove through an area, about five acres, that had those sheep/goat critters. You know the ones that looked like goats but were wooly like sheep? These critters were dead but had no wounds. I got out and checked them out. One of the things I noticed, on top of no wounds were there no flies or other insects in the area. There were no crows or rats either. In other places around towns, there were rats and ravens/crows eating the dead. But not where the goat/sheep were. Here's the kicker. On the return trip, someone was putting constitina wire around the area with signs saying the area was contaminated. They told us to see the medics when we got back and to keep a close watch over each other. They never did say what was the contamination. __________________ Life is too short to drink bad coffee!

02-03-2004, 07:11 AM	#13
tman1234 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Campbellsville, KY Posts: 31	That is a kicker, that would make for good pics if anyone had them. I guess we just got used to it while we were there at the airfield, and once we left for another position, I guess we just kind of forgot about it all, at least I did, until I started writing about my experiences over there and remembered not too long ago. So many similar stories, yet the govt. rarely mentions these observations so many of us had. __________________ "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire

02-04-2004, 10:20 AM	#14
Artillery Mech Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Pac North-west Posts: 49	A bud of mine reminded me of something that happened. We had a lamb come into our logbase before the groundwar. About a day or two afterwards, it died. We tossed it a ways away from the logbase. I guess someone found it because a bunch of guys came over wearing their NBC suits and took the thing away. We never heard what become of the dead lamb. I think he got pictures of the lamb prior to it dieing. If I remember correctly, it was pretty lethargic before it died. __________________ Life is too short to drink bad coffee!