Rifle die question - The Firearms Forum

44stevenson · 02-22-2011, 10:07 PM

What is the reason for having a full length sizer in your rifle die set, I know that some sets don't even have it, all they seem to do for me is piss me off when they get a shell stuck in them.

JLA · 02-22-2011, 10:16 PM

All dies sets, save for the ones that are 'necksize only', come with a standard FL die. They wont stick if you lube them... Most pistol dies are carbide and do not require case lube, quite the contrary for rifle dies. They are precision ground steel and require a thin film of case lube on the case and a dab in the mouth so the case doesnt stick... My preferred method of case lubing is to squeeze an entire tube of LEE case lube into a pint sized pump spray bottle (one that sprays fine mist) and dilute it to liquid form with stout (91 or 97%) rubbing alcohol and spray the cases inside a gallon size freezer bag, then shake em. this allows you to spray and even film over the cases and the alcohol dries very quickly leaving a thin white residue even in the case mouth. I guarantee you your cases wont stick...

JLA · 02-22-2011, 10:19 PM

oh yeah, and to answer your question, the reason for the FL die is because not all rifles have the same chamber dimensions having an FL die allows you to load for all of them. Also, say you have just one rifle and you necksize for it, eventually you will need to bump the shoulder back so it will chamber. after a few cycles they still stretch to the point that they wont chamber easily...

steve4102 · 02-22-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

oh yeah, and to answer your question, the reason for the FL die is because not all rifles have the same chamber dimensions having an FL die allows you to load for all of them. Also, say you have just one rifle and you necksize for it, eventually you will need to bump the shoulder back so it will chamber. after a few cycles they still stretch to the point that they wont chamber easily...

This^

44stevenson · 02-23-2011, 08:13 AM

I know you have to Ludendorff the case for the fl die, my method just doesn't seem to work that great. So what exactly do you "adjust" with the FL die?

JLA · 02-23-2011, 08:26 AM

how do you lube your cases?

What exactly do you mean by what do you adjust with the die???

The die doesnt adjust anything you adjust the die to set the fired case back to factory specs.... simple as that...

44stevenson · 02-23-2011, 09:28 AM

With a cotton swab and lube pad. You said the fl die adjust the case back to factory specs, that's what I was asking. I just didn't know what it was for since everything looked right without it on some .223 cases I was loading.

JLA · 02-23-2011, 09:33 AM

Ok I understand where youre coming from now.

Everytime I have ever used a lube pad with case 'oil' I get stuck cases, particularly .223. Not to mention if you get too much lube on the case itll cause hydraulic dents in the shoulder.

Thats why i switched to diluted Lee case lube. One tube costs 4 bucks, mixed into a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol it will lube many thousands of cases and your cases wont stick in the die...

JLA · 02-23-2011, 09:40 AM

heres a pic of what im talking about... This is just the bottle from the cabelas case lube. I bought it to try and ended up pouring it out and putting diluted LEE case lube in there... Its about the consistency of water.

44stevenson · 02-23-2011, 11:24 AM

i've got a tube of Lee resizing lube, a pasty type stuff, are you talking about mixing it with water?

woolleyworm · 02-23-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44stevenson

i've got a tube of Lee resizing lube, a pasty type stuff, are you talking about mixing it with water?

rubbing alcohol, it evaporates quickly and ensures a nice light and even coat.

JLA · 02-23-2011, 02:34 PM

thanks worm, ya beat me to it.

Yes 44, I dilute with stout rubbing alcohol (91-97%) til its thin as water so it will spray thru the bottle. The alcohol dries very quickly leaving a very thin white film on the cases.

I spray them in a gallon size freezer bag, spray em real good, shake em, then spray em again, and shake em. then take them all out and set them up on end on the desk, by the time i get the last ones out of the bag, the first ones are dry and ready to size. this method gets the lube just inside the case mouth too without special attention to getting it inside the casemouth...

Sandman · 02-23-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

thanks worm, ya beat me to it.

Yes 44, I dilute with stout rubbing alcohol (91-97%) til its thin as water so it will spray thru the bottle. The alcohol dries very quickly leaving a very thin white film on the cases.

I spray them in a gallon size freezer bag, spray em real good, shake em, then spray em again, and shake em. then take them all out and set them up on end on the desk, by the time i get the last ones out of the bag, the first ones are dry and ready to size. this method gets the lube just inside the case mouth too without special attention to getting it inside the casemouth...

That brings up another question. I have read not to lube the shoulder of the cases. Is this not a problem doing it the way you describe?

gdmoody · 02-23-2011, 04:13 PM

I tell you what, a fellow can learn something new every day around here. Thanks Josh, I have never even thought of something like that. I don't know if this is your idea or someone else's, but thanks for so much knowledge.

JLA · 02-23-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandman

That brings up another question. I have read not to lube the shoulder of the cases. Is this not a problem doing it the way you describe?

The LEE case lube doesnt effect the shoulders because its paraffin based, it doesnt have a hydraulic denting effect like oil based case lubes like lyman or RCBS. This is why you can spray them all over like this and it works great!

JLA · 02-23-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmoody

I tell you what, a fellow can learn something new every day around here. Thanks Josh, I have never even thought of something like that. I don't know if this is your idea or someone else's, but thanks for so much knowledge.

actually i got it from somebody on here about a year or two ago. Been using it that way since.

Sandman · 02-25-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

The LEE case lube doesnt effect the shoulders because its paraffin based, it doesnt have a hydraulic denting effect like oil based case lubes like lyman or RCBS. This is why you can spray them all over like this and it works great!

I did not know that, and am glad you have enlightened me. That will make my case lubing go a whole lot faster!

polishshooter · 02-25-2011, 01:14 PM

Aha! I have been using Hornady One Shot spray case lube that does the same thing, about the same technique.

EXCEPT I paid like $7 for the can and it's almost empty and I haven't loaded more than about 100 cases!

I'll have to try the Lee and dilution method, it sounds like it would go a lot farther, AND be cheaper.

howlnmad · 02-25-2011, 02:43 PM

I've had a tube of the Lee case lube sitting on the shelf for about 10 years. I should check and see if it's still good and try that with the alkyhaul. Been using Imperial sizing wax with real good results and never thought about the Lee lube

.

howlnmad · 02-25-2011, 02:46 PM

JLA,

What happens when someone calls that number on the front of your computer? That isn't one of those asian spas, is it? Just kidding

.

JLA · 02-25-2011, 07:56 PM

dunno... its somethin the wife wrote up there. prolly the pizza joint in Godley TX... try it and see who ya get....

gdmoody · 03-01-2011, 01:45 PM

Josh, you said dilute it with "Rubbing" alcohol. I have some Ethyl Rubbing alcohol and I have seen something like Isopropyl alcohol. The Ethyl stuff seems to be a tiny bit "thicker" that the other. Should I use the isopropyl which seems to be thinner??

I know this is probably a silly question but I want to make sure before I waste a tube of Lee lube with the wrong stuff.

woolleyworm · 03-01-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmoody

Josh, you said dilute it with "Rubbing" alcohol. I have some Ethyl Rubbing alcohol and I have seen something like Isopropyl alcohol. The Ethyl stuff seems to be a tiny bit "thicker" that the other. Should I use the isopropyl which seems to be thinner??

I know this is probably a silly question but I want to make sure before I waste a tube of Lee lube with the wrong stuff.

Rubbing alcohol can be either; most commonly you'll find isopropyl. There are varied concentrations; I'd use the higher concentrations for diluting; but as long as you find one that works with the lube you're using and the rate you're diluting, then its fine.

JLA · 03-01-2011, 05:21 PM

Isopropyl george. I like to use 97% but have used 91%. they sell them at walmart in the pharmacy section.

gdmoody · 03-01-2011, 09:35 PM

Thanks woolley and Josh!!

02-22-2011, 10:07 PM	#1
44stevenson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 60	Rifle die question What is the reason for having a full length sizer in your rifle die set, I know that some sets don't even have it, all they seem to do for me is piss me off when they get a shell stuck in them. -->

02-22-2011, 10:16 PM	#2
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question All dies sets, save for the ones that are 'necksize only', come with a standard FL die. They wont stick if you lube them... Most pistol dies are carbide and do not require case lube, quite the contrary for rifle dies. They are precision ground steel and require a thin film of case lube on the case and a dab in the mouth so the case doesnt stick... My preferred method of case lubing is to squeeze an entire tube of LEE case lube into a pint sized pump spray bottle (one that sprays fine mist) and dilute it to liquid form with stout (91 or 97%) rubbing alcohol and spray the cases inside a gallon size freezer bag, then shake em. this allows you to spray and even film over the cases and the alcohol dries very quickly leaving a thin white residue even in the case mouth. I guarantee you your cases wont stick... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-22-2011, 10:19 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question oh yeah, and to answer your question, the reason for the FL die is because not all rifles have the same chamber dimensions having an FL die allows you to load for all of them. Also, say you have just one rifle and you necksize for it, eventually you will need to bump the shoulder back so it will chamber. after a few cycles they still stretch to the point that they wont chamber easily... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-23-2011, 08:13 AM	#5
44stevenson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 60	Re: Rifle die question I know you have to Ludendorff the case for the fl die, my method just doesn't seem to work that great. So what exactly do you "adjust" with the FL die?

02-23-2011, 08:26 AM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question how do you lube your cases? What exactly do you mean by what do you adjust with the die??? The die doesnt adjust anything you adjust the die to set the fired case back to factory specs.... simple as that... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-23-2011, 09:28 AM	#7
44stevenson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 60	Re: Rifle die question With a cotton swab and lube pad. You said the fl die adjust the case back to factory specs, that's what I was asking. I just didn't know what it was for since everything looked right without it on some .223 cases I was loading.

02-23-2011, 09:33 AM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question Ok I understand where youre coming from now. Everytime I have ever used a lube pad with case 'oil' I get stuck cases, particularly .223. Not to mention if you get too much lube on the case itll cause hydraulic dents in the shoulder. Thats why i switched to diluted Lee case lube. One tube costs 4 bucks, mixed into a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol it will lube many thousands of cases and your cases wont stick in the die... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-23-2011, 09:40 AM	#9
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question heres a pic of what im talking about... This is just the bottle from the cabelas case lube. I bought it to try and ended up pouring it out and putting diluted LEE case lube in there... Its about the consistency of water. Attached Images __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-23-2011, 11:24 AM	#10
44stevenson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 60	Re: Rifle die question i've got a tube of Lee resizing lube, a pasty type stuff, are you talking about mixing it with water?

02-23-2011, 02:34 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question thanks worm, ya beat me to it. Yes 44, I dilute with stout rubbing alcohol (91-97%) til its thin as water so it will spray thru the bottle. The alcohol dries very quickly leaving a very thin white film on the cases. I spray them in a gallon size freezer bag, spray em real good, shake em, then spray em again, and shake em. then take them all out and set them up on end on the desk, by the time i get the last ones out of the bag, the first ones are dry and ready to size. this method gets the lube just inside the case mouth too without special attention to getting it inside the casemouth... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-23-2011, 04:13 PM	#14
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,306	Re: Rifle die question I tell you what, a fellow can learn something new every day around here. Thanks Josh, I have never even thought of something like that. I don't know if this is your idea or someone else's, but thanks for so much knowledge. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

02-25-2011, 01:14 PM	#18
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Rifle die question Aha! I have been using Hornady One Shot spray case lube that does the same thing, about the same technique. EXCEPT I paid like $7 for the can and it's almost empty and I haven't loaded more than about 100 cases! I'll have to try the Lee and dilution method, it sounds like it would go a lot farther, AND be cheaper. __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

02-25-2011, 02:43 PM	#19
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,565	Re: Rifle die question I've had a tube of the Lee case lube sitting on the shelf for about 10 years. I should check and see if it's still good and try that with the alkyhaul. Been using Imperial sizing wax with real good results and never thought about the Lee lube . __________________

02-25-2011, 02:46 PM	#20
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,565	Re: Rifle die question JLA, What happens when someone calls that number on the front of your computer? That isn't one of those asian spas, is it? Just kidding . __________________

02-25-2011, 07:56 PM	#21
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question dunno... its somethin the wife wrote up there. prolly the pizza joint in Godley TX... try it and see who ya get.... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-01-2011, 01:45 PM	#22
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,306	Re: Rifle die question Josh, you said dilute it with "Rubbing" alcohol. I have some Ethyl Rubbing alcohol and I have seen something like Isopropyl alcohol. The Ethyl stuff seems to be a tiny bit "thicker" that the other. Should I use the isopropyl which seems to be thinner?? I know this is probably a silly question but I want to make sure before I waste a tube of Lee lube with the wrong stuff. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

03-01-2011, 05:21 PM	#24
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,298	Re: Rifle die question Isopropyl george. I like to use 97% but have used 91%. they sell them at walmart in the pharmacy section. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-01-2011, 09:35 PM	#25
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,306	Re: Rifle die question Thanks woolley and Josh!! __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)