Prayer

[Sorrowful Jones]

Not too long ago I heard a speaker say "pray this prayer...Say these words" and then go on to tell others what words to use. I take issue with this approach. To me, this implies the speaker's words will get through and your own words might not. It is my opinion that God knows our needs and wants before we even ask. He does not need a third party writing the script. I also believe some of the most sincere prayers are done by those who are not polished speakers.

Folks, please pray...and when you do use your own words. God knows.

Having said that, let me say that I have no issue with someone leading a prayer, such as in church, sporting event, ceremony, etc.

Your thoughts??

[ampaterry]

I agree completely.
Someone bought me a book of prayers many years ago.
I find it interesting to read how others pray, but as far as being useful, it is not.

Outside of the occasional group recitation of the Model prayer and Shepherds Prayer given by Jesus, I have used no pre-written prayer.

You don't go to your father with a script -
You don't go to someone you love with a script -

And God should be approached as BOTH of these.

[jack404]

i'm of the same mind , lead prayers yes, ask for prayers for someone or thing , sure , tell you the words to pray??

unless like the anglican background i had you have a liturgy
example

Minister " And The Lord's Love be upon you "
Congregational response " and also upon you "

then its wrong

your prayers are yours ,

heck what would folks think of mine ??

i talk to God like i talked with my grand father or a trusted mate

full of bloody's and bugger's and all

i mean who knows us better ?/ be yourself always

[BlackEagle]

The only times I have suggested words for someone else to pray were when I was talking to someone who had never prayed before, leading him in asking Jesus into his life. They have no idea what it means to pray, so I had to show them, explaining that it was just talking to God, the same as he was talking to me.

I sometimes take issue with the routine repitition of what's called "The Lord's Prayer". Jesus prefaced it with "After this manner pray ye..." He was saying this is the pattern or outline we are to use, the topics to cover, not necessarily to use these very words.

[RunningOnMT]

I recall many years ago, in restaurants they used to have little stands on the tables with sample prayers for those wishing to say grace before a meal. While reading a script is not the ideal way to pray, it did remind people to be thankful for their food and from whom it came. Using those sample prayers might have been a start for those raised in homes where they didn't pray or say grace. I kind of wish those were still found in restaurants today.

I have heard more than one minister say that it's perfectly fine not to pray or say grace in public so as not to offend others. I think what they really meant is that it's OK to avoid the embarrassment of acknowledging God in public. There was a time in America when it wasn't politically incorrect to do so. A better time I think.

As for other situations, I will bow my head and pray in agreement with someone else leading a prayer, such as a pastor, but I wont lead a prayer in front of others. Yes I'm embarrassed, but not for acknowledging God but because I sort of stammer and struggle for the right words to say. When I pray it's just a private chat between God and myself, and He doesn't care if I'm not good at public speaking.

[CampingJosh]

I have used a couple books to learn about praying. Prayer is one of those things that you can definitely get better at by reading, studying and (most importantly) practicing. And I don't mean "better" in the sense that other people will be impressed with how eloquent you sound spouting off these words. I mean that we can learn to pray more effectively, to communicate with God more effectively.

[BlackEagle]

John Brown of Priesthill was a Christian in Scotland during the 1600's. Christians were being persecuted big time...that time was called "The Killing Times". John Brown was a cartier-a truck driver. He had a terrible stutter and very seldom talked in public. At the most crucial time of his life God took away his stutter and he was able to pray such that even his enemies were deeply moved... http://www.covenanter.org.uk/JohnBrown/

God has a way of saying He will give us the right way of saying things, and the ability to say them when the time is right. But also it is a great privelage to learn from others what God has taught them about prayer, among other things.

[ampaterry]

We always give thanks for the meal, no matter where we are or who we are with. We have never had anyone show displeasure at this, and on more than one occasion someone has come to our table afterward and said they were happy to see someone giving thanks in a public restaurant like that -

[Sorrowful Jones]

I do not take issue with The Lord's Prayer. I agree this is somewhat of a "model" by which we should pray. Sometimes, even when alone, I say the Lord's Prayer verbatim. Sometimes I just want to get back to Bible basics.
I do have a prayer that I sometimes read to myself (well, not to MYSELF exactly, but to God) on occasion. (I will post it if anyone wants)
I believe prayer is the strongest power in the universe, next to God.
Ron

[rosierita]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

John Brown of Priesthill was a Christian in Scotland during the 1600's. Christians were being persecuted big time...that time was called "The Killing Times". John Brown was a cartier-a truck driver. He had a terrible stutter and very seldom talked in public. At the most crucial time of his life God took away his stutter and he was able to pray such that even his enemies were deeply moved... http://www.covenanter.org.uk/JohnBrown/

God has a way of saying He will give us the right way of saying things, and the ability to say them when the time is right. But also it is a great privelage to learn from others what God has taught them about prayer, among other things.

your post made me think of jason gray. have you ever heard of him? he's 1 of my absolute favorite artists.

he's a christian singer, who is AWESOME. he has a stutter, but when he sings, he doesnt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKyY8zfjBMQ (him singing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrqiHov0MdY (him talking)

edited to add another link of him talking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOxEa...eature=related

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by rosierita

your post made me think of jason gray. have you ever heard of him? he's 1 of my absolute favorite artists.

he's a christian singer, who is AWESOME. he has a stutter, but when he sings, he doesnt.

Awesome, Rosierita;
I have heard about him, but only vaguely. Thanks for the links. He has a great testimony about how God can work through our weaknesses.

[Krogen]

I've wondered for some time about group prayer or praying in public. I feel prayer is something between God and me. I admit to being self-conscious praying in public, but beyond that I have difficulty reconciling public prayer with Matthew 6:5-6.

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What is it that I'm missing here? I read this as prayer should be done privately. Or is Matthew 6:5-6 all about one's motive? In other words praying in public in an attempt to glorify one's self rather than God?

[rosierita]

Originally Posted by Krogen

I've wondered for some time about group prayer or praying in public. I feel prayer is something between God and me. I admit to being self-conscious praying in public, but beyond that I have difficulty reconciling public prayer with Matthew 6:5-6.

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What is it that I'm missing here? I read this as prayer should be done privately. Or is Matthew 6:5-6 all about one's motive? In other words praying in public in an attempt to glorify one's self rather than God?

God looks at our hearts & motives, i believe that is the issue being referred to you in that verse. what came to my mind when i read what you posted was the scripture below.

Matthew 18
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

eta ~ i don't believe God is against public prayer, i believe He is against wrong motives. sometimes we recognize our wrong motives, sometimes we don't. (or we're not being honest with ourselves.)

[ampaterry]

Rosierita, I agree -

Krogen, it is quite common to be self-conscious about saying a prayer in public, but it is certainly not contrary to scripture to do so. I believe that passage you quote from Matthew 6 is indeed dealing with ones motive, and the key to that is the "hypocrits" who "love to pray" where others can hear.
You express discomfort in doing so - which is proof positive that you do not "love" to be heard by others, so you are not guilty of being contrary to these words of Christ.

There are simply too many positive examples of public and group prayer for it to be contrary to God's will. Here are just a few of them:

Matthew 14:19 (KJV)
19 And he (Jesus) commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Luke 3:21 (KJV)
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

Acts 1:12-14 (KJV)
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 12:12 (KJV)
12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

[Krogen]

Thanks rosierita and ampaterry! I appreciate your replies. I'm new here in the forum and finding it to be a great place.

[BlackEagle]

Welcome to the forum, Krogen. Glad to have you aboard. It is a great place; the people are friendly and helpful. There is genuine care for each other here.

[Marlin]

Welcome, Krogan, to TFF, the best, not only firearm, but forum on the net.

May God richly bless you and yours and keep you in His care, always.

[rosierita]

Originally Posted by Krogen

Thanks rosierita and ampaterry! I appreciate your replies. I'm new here in the forum and finding it to be a great place.

you're welcome! i'm glad you've joined us!