frame game

[mitchell38]

j-frame,k-frame,l-frame etc. how exactly do you define them,are the letters brand specific or is it universal? cant't find a good answer online anywere else,i'm shooting a colt cobra 38,not sure i see any letter in the shape of it,j maybe?

[PanhandlePop]

The frame designations you cite were coined by Smith and Wesson. They denote the size/bulk/weight of their various revolver frames. J being the small frame like the 5-shot Model 36. L frames tend to be the big boys that handle magnum cartridges. There may be other mfgs that use these designations for comparison purposes, but they are basically a S&W "thing."

[Twicepop]

The J, K, and L frames you ask about are frame size designations from Smith and Wesson revolvers. Colt has their own frame sizes that are different from the S-W guns, I'm not familiar enough with their guns to add them to what I already put in the post. With the S-W revolvers the J frame is the smallest, followed by K, L, and N and then the X frame as the largest in that order.

those who beat their guns into plowshares, will plow for those who didn't

[ozo]

The Colt Cobra is a Light-Weight .38 caliber Double Action (or Single Action) Six Shot Revolver. The Cobra was made of a special aluminum alloy and this gun is nickel plated.

It was an earlier version of the Colt Cobra that Jack Ruby used to kill Lee Harvey Oswald. The serial number of Ruby's Colt was 2744LW (note the LW stands for Light-Weight). The Jack Ruby Colt Cobra was returned to his estate many years later and was sold at auction. An anonymous New Jersey gun collector paid $220,000 for it.

[ozo]

Serial Number Table For:

Cobra, Aircrewman, Courier, Agent
1950
Begin Aircrewman 1951
1952
1953
Begin Courier 1954
1955
End Courier 1956
1957
1958
End Aircrewman 1959
1960
1961
Begin Agent 1962
1963
1964
1965
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970
1971
1972
1973
1974
1975
1976
1977
1978
Begin serial # for 1950 with 1LW and so on:
1LW
1500LW, 1902LW
7000LW
20200LW
26150LW, 26275LW
33900LW
44600LW, 56001LW
56201LW
71450LW
85000LW, 90470LW
94800LW
104600LW
122500LW
132600LW
140800LW
154100LW
171400LW, 175955LW, 200101LW
220000LW
245700LW
274000LW, 275115LW, A60000
A84900, A99999, B60000, B61701
B61701, B83550
B83551, B99999, C61001, C68950
C68951, C99999
F60001, F99999, H60001, H66000
H66001, H99999, M60001, M84900
M52001, M59999, M84901, M99999, 60001M, 71400M
71401M, 99999M, 60001R, 63400R
63401R

The Colt Cobra was manufactured from 1950 to 1981.

[Alpo]

As twicepop said, that J-K-L thing is Smith and Wesson. It usually will work for Taurus and/or Rossi, because they are copies of S&W.

Colt has different sizes. The Cobra is a Police Positive/Detective Special/Diamonback size. Colt called it the D frame. It is bigger than a S&W J frame, but smaller than a S&W K frame. Nothing made for a J or a K will fit it.

The Colt Python and Trooper are built on the Colt I-frame, which is the same size as the S&W L-frame. So holsters for the Python will work for a Smith 686, and vice-versa. Speedloaders won't interchange, though. Neither will grips.

[Lanrezac]

The I frame was S&W's small frame, dating back to the 1890's. It was a 6 shot 32 Long, 5 shot 38 S&W, or 6 shot 22. Over the course of the 1950's, it was replaced by the J frame, which could be a 5 shot 38 Special. Nowadays the J frame has been strengthened to take 357 Magnum.

The I and J frames can use the same grips, pretty much; in fact, I have put J frame grips on a 38 S&W "Perfected Model", the last of the S&W top-breaks.

The K frame was S&W's medium frame, dating back to just before 1900. It was generally a 6 shot 38 Special or a 6 shot 32-20. In the 1960's S&W made it as a 6 shot 357 Magnum, but it wasn't really happy with shooting Magnums full time, so in the early 1980's, S&W introduced the L frame, which was slightly larger.

I've never had an L-frame, but I believe its grip frame is identical to the K frame. The Ks were ultimately chambered in a wide range of cartridges - 22 rimfire, 22 Jet, 32 Long, 380 Enfield, 9mm Parabellum, and so on. S&W still makes K frames, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was phased out one of these decades.

The N frame was the largest, and was introduced as a 6 shot 44 Special in 1907, I think. It has been modified a lot over the years, but I think the grip frame has always stayed the same. It's most famous in 44 Magnum now.

Now that I think of it, I don't know if the frame S&W builds the big hand-cannons on (revolvers like .500 S&W) are just stretched N frames or have their own letter. Can anyone say?

Trivia note: Back around 1900, S&W made a tiny 7 shot swing-out cylinder revolver in 22 Long (not Long Rifle) called the Ladysmith. I believe it was called the M frame. You will never see one; they are like hen's teeth.

[Alpo]

The 500 is an X-frame.

[hardluk1]

Mitchell38 This does not help with colt but will cover the frame sizes for S&W. Go here to find all s&w frame sizes and numbers for the revolvers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson

[RJay]

And not a word about the S&W M frame

[Alpo]

.

[hardluk1]

jray the m frame at wiki, model 38 only.

[RJay]

M Frame, smallest hand ejector revolver model ever made by S&W, the original Lady Smith , 22 Long. 1902 until 1921.

[hardluk1]

There was also a C and a I s&w frame.

http://armchairgunshow.com/images/11framesizes.jpg

[Alpo]

I believe whoever made that picture is confused.

The Model 1 frame was a 7-shot 22 tip-up.

Model 1 1/2 was a slightly larger 5-shot 32 tip-up.

Model 2 was a "medium frame" 6-shot 32 tip-up or 5-shot 38 top break.

Model 3 was a large frame 6-shot 44 break top.

When they went to hand ejectors they quit using numbers and went to letters.

M - tiny 7-shot 22

I -small, 6-shot 32

Improved I - slightly larger, still 6-shot 32 or 5-shot 38.

J - basically an I, but with the hole in the frame stretched so they could put a 38 special in there.

K - medium frame 6-shot 38

L - "medium +" frame - larger than "medium", but smaller than "large". 6-shot 357 magnum

N - large frame 6-shot 44

X - extra large frame for the 500 S&W

These additional ones nobody but the S&W factory uses.

E - stainless steel J

F - stainless steel K

H - stainless steel L

G - stainless steel N

Can't find any reference anywhere, except for that page, for a "C" frame.

[Lanrezac]

IIRC - which is iffy - the C frame was an S&W design project for a small-frame 6 shot 38 Special, to compete directly with Colt's Detective Special / Police Positive Special. S&W made some prototypes, but never went into production. I think this was in the 1960's or 1970's.

Anything I know about this comes from "The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" by Jim Supica, my copy of which is packed away at the moment, so I can't check.

[ozo]

The C-frame was a 'more-or-less'
spit-in-the-face version of the J frame
directed at Colt......
no production was amounted, as I know of.
[Nicholas Kimling was a top smith at S&W
and these are his words.....and MY family]