Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? - The Firearms Forum

JohnHenry · 10-09-2011, 12:28 PM

I see no logic in what these people are trying to do .... do you ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZa4L...re=uploademail

Python · 10-09-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

I see no logic in what these people are trying to do .... do you ?

This is a trick question?

ampaterry · 10-09-2011, 01:53 PM

I think it might depend on which "these people" we are talking about.

The classroom display of the ten commandments, as part of a larger display concerning the historical basis and development of our laws, makes very good logical sense, since they have had an undeniable influence on them.

Those that object deny and ignore this influence, instead simply injecting their personal opinion and pretending to not see the very clear and obvious hostorical connection, are behaving in a very illogical manner. They seem to think that if they say the same thing long enough, somehow it will become true.

Bobitis · 10-09-2011, 02:48 PM

The 9th circuit displays the Ten Commandments?

Old Grump · 10-09-2011, 03:22 PM

If they do not like it they are free to move to Iran, or Saudi Arabia. The ten commandments are not allowed by law there. That should make them feel right at home.

Of course they do have the Koran and their version is:

[QUOTE]Say, “Come, I will recite what your Lord has forbidden you; that you associate not anything with Him, and to be good to your parents, and not to slay your children because of poverty; We will provide you and them, and that you approach not any indecency outward or inward, and that you slay not the soul God has forbidden, except by right. That then He has charged you with; haply you will understand.

(- 6:150 -)
Noble Quran

And that your approach not the property of the orphan, save in the fairer manner, until he is of age. And fill up the measure and the blanace with justice. We charge not any soul save to its capacity. And when you speak, be just, even if it should be to a near kinsman. And fulfil God’s covenant. That then He has charged you with; haply you will remember.

(- 6:151 -)
Noble Quran

Now here is the heart of morality. I think that these two verses contain the answers to all moral dilemmas, if you are wise enough to apply them properly to the dilemma. But the Bible’s version of the Commandments suffers from five problems:

1. It does not actually forbid you from worshiping other gods (so long as they are not graven images), but only from worshiping them before Jehovah.

2. It claims that God is a jealous God.

3. In the same breath, it claims that God punishes and rewards people for what other people do. (This contradicts Ezekiel 18, but that’s another story.)

4. It forbids only killing, not murder. Some translations, to be sure, say “murder”, but the RSV is the only one I trust completely, as comparing translations and learning about certain verses has led me to conclude that it is the most honestly translated one. In any case God repeatedly orders people in the Old Testament to commit what can only be called murder, such as in the command in 1 Samuel 15:3 to slay even the infants and sucklings of a raided civilization.

5. Wives are included on a list of property on a list with slaves, houses and farm animals.

The Koran’s version of the commandments, as you may have noticed, is free from these problems. Even if the hardcore inerrantist Christian apologists are right and I have misunderstood the text in all five of my points (as they would undoubtably say), there is no room for misunderstanding the Koran’s version of the Commandments in such an evil way, so no matter how you figure it, the Koran’s version is cleaned up from the Bible’s version, superior one way or another. Its superiority is also evident in numerous other ways:

1. While the Bible’s version, as I’ve pointed out, simply says not to have other gods before God, the Koran’s version actually says not to associate anything with Him.

2. The Koran’s version mentions the basic fact of justice, not just a few select forms of it like not stealing or committing adultery. It tells you to be just, and that covers so much more ground than these “perfect ten” do, n’est-ce pas?

3. The simple command to fulfill God’s covenant is somehow not in the Bible’s version of the Commandments! Not so with the Koran’s version.

4. The Koran’s version guides your whole speech, not just your speech about God.

/QUOTE]Of course there is the minor problem that if they question the Koran or try to bring suit against the teaching or display of any of its teachings in a public place they could find themselves in a very uncomfortable place.

Like under a large pile of small rocks. Time for those idiots to shut up and be thankful that they live in a free society where they are free to believe in and worship or not believe in and free not to worship.

cycloneman · 10-09-2011, 04:43 PM

We are in the last days so get used to it.

All part of making our kids stupid.

tho shall not kill
tho shall not sleep with your neighbor wife
tho shall not steal from your neighbor
You see these laws really dont fit in modern day drug dealing (reality tv) world our kids are grown into.

the devil would rather have a set of laws like

its ok to steal, kill, screw your neighbor, kill yourself bla bla bla and he is working towards that, S L O W L Y

Like i said before on another thread. You want me to take it down? Fine. I am not one to make waves. But I will be shoving it up someones backside.
Do that one or twice and they will get the picture.

ampaterry · 10-09-2011, 04:46 PM

Old Grump, maybe I can clarify this a bit for the folks by saying that your quote in this post is from:
The House of the Crescent Moon

Excellent piece, too -
Everyone knows that if you want REALLY FRESH PURE MANURE, you go right to the stable for it.

bakerconch · 10-10-2011, 07:07 AM

Take away the basic fundamentals of the Bible like the commandments and this is what you get. As for me, I will teach my children and grandchildren the ways of God!

2 Timothy 3

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.

Python · 10-10-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakerconch

Take away the basic fundamentals of the Bible like the commandments and this is what you get. As for me, I will teach my children and grandchildren the ways of God!

2 Timothy 3

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.

Amen.

Joshua 24:15
"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".

Old Grump · 10-11-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Old Grump, maybe I can clarify this a bit for the folks by saying that your quote in this post is from:
The House of the Crescent Moon

Excellent piece, too -
Everyone knows that if you want REALLY FRESH PURE MANURE, you go right to the stable for it.

Yeah I know.

jeffadaklin · 10-11-2011, 05:15 PM

IMHO, it's time the vast majority stood up and made more noise than the minority. They started removing the Lord and His teachings back in the 60s, and it's pretty obvious where that's taken us. No, can't blame it ALL on removal of Christian teachings, but....

Juker · 10-11-2011, 05:37 PM

Fun, travel, and adventure awaits.

So come on, Wall Street crybaby pukes, step up and do something with your lives!

10-09-2011, 12:28 PM	#1
JohnHenry Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Livingston county, Michigan Posts: 1,215	Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? I see no logic in what these people are trying to do .... do you ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZa4L...re=uploademail __________________ Freedom .... Is Never Free ! We need Term Limits .... Send the "Professional Politicians" home . -->

10-09-2011, 01:53 PM	#3
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,269	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? I think it might depend on which "these people" we are talking about. The classroom display of the ten commandments, as part of a larger display concerning the historical basis and development of our laws, makes very good logical sense, since they have had an undeniable influence on them. Those that object deny and ignore this influence, instead simply injecting their personal opinion and pretending to not see the very clear and obvious hostorical connection, are behaving in a very illogical manner. They seem to think that if they say the same thing long enough, somehow it will become true. __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

10-09-2011, 02:48 PM	#4
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? The 9th circuit displays the Ten Commandments? __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

10-09-2011, 03:22 PM	#5
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,285	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? If they do not like it they are free to move to Iran, or Saudi Arabia. The ten commandments are not allowed by law there. That should make them feel right at home. Of course they do have the Koran and their version is: [QUOTE]Say, “Come, I will recite what your Lord has forbidden you; that you associate not anything with Him, and to be good to your parents, and not to slay your children because of poverty; We will provide you and them, and that you approach not any indecency outward or inward, and that you slay not the soul God has forbidden, except by right. That then He has charged you with; haply you will understand. (- 6:150 -) Noble Quran And that your approach not the property of the orphan, save in the fairer manner, until he is of age. And fill up the measure and the blanace with justice. We charge not any soul save to its capacity. And when you speak, be just, even if it should be to a near kinsman. And fulfil God’s covenant. That then He has charged you with; haply you will remember. (- 6:151 -) Noble Quran Now here is the heart of morality. I think that these two verses contain the answers to all moral dilemmas, if you are wise enough to apply them properly to the dilemma. But the Bible’s version of the Commandments suffers from five problems: 1. It does not actually forbid you from worshiping other gods (so long as they are not graven images), but only from worshiping them before Jehovah. 2. It claims that God is a jealous God. 3. In the same breath, it claims that God punishes and rewards people for what other people do. (This contradicts Ezekiel 18, but that’s another story.) 4. It forbids only killing, not murder. Some translations, to be sure, say “murder”, but the RSV is the only one I trust completely, as comparing translations and learning about certain verses has led me to conclude that it is the most honestly translated one. In any case God repeatedly orders people in the Old Testament to commit what can only be called murder, such as in the command in 1 Samuel 15:3 to slay even the infants and sucklings of a raided civilization. 5. Wives are included on a list of property on a list with slaves, houses and farm animals. The Koran’s version of the commandments, as you may have noticed, is free from these problems. Even if the hardcore inerrantist Christian apologists are right and I have misunderstood the text in all five of my points (as they would undoubtably say), there is no room for misunderstanding the Koran’s version of the Commandments in such an evil way, so no matter how you figure it, the Koran’s version is cleaned up from the Bible’s version, superior one way or another. Its superiority is also evident in numerous other ways: 1. While the Bible’s version, as I’ve pointed out, simply says not to have other gods before God, the Koran’s version actually says not to associate anything with Him. 2. The Koran’s version mentions the basic fact of justice, not just a few select forms of it like not stealing or committing adultery. It tells you to be just, and that covers so much more ground than these “perfect ten” do, n’est-ce pas? 3. The simple command to fulfill God’s covenant is somehow not in the Bible’s version of the Commandments! Not so with the Koran’s version. 4. The Koran’s version guides your whole speech, not just your speech about God. /QUOTE]Of course there is the minor problem that if they question the Koran or try to bring suit against the teaching or display of any of its teachings in a public place they could find themselves in a very uncomfortable place. Like under a large pile of small rocks. Time for those idiots to shut up and be thankful that they live in a free society where they are free to believe in and worship or not believe in and free not to worship. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA Last edited by Old Grump; 10-09-2011 at 03:30 PM..

10-09-2011, 04:43 PM	#6
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,398	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? We are in the last days so get used to it. All part of making our kids stupid. tho shall not kill tho shall not sleep with your neighbor wife tho shall not steal from your neighbor You see these laws really dont fit in modern day drug dealing (reality tv) world our kids are grown into. the devil would rather have a set of laws like its ok to steal, kill, screw your neighbor, kill yourself bla bla bla and he is working towards that, S L O W L Y Like i said before on another thread. You want me to take it down? Fine. I am not one to make waves. But I will be shoving it up someones backside. Do that one or twice and they will get the picture. __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

10-09-2011, 04:46 PM	#7
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,269	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? Old Grump, maybe I can clarify this a bit for the folks by saying that your quote in this post is from: The House of the Crescent Moon Excellent piece, too - Everyone knows that if you want REALLY FRESH PURE MANURE, you go right to the stable for it. __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

10-10-2011, 07:07 AM	#8
bakerconch V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: North Florida Posts: 259	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? Take away the basic fundamentals of the Bible like the commandments and this is what you get. As for me, I will teach my children and grandchildren the ways of God! 2 Timothy 3 1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.

10-11-2011, 05:15 PM	#11
jeffadaklin V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SC Posts: 137	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? IMHO, it's time the vast majority stood up and made more noise than the minority. They started removing the Lord and His teachings back in the 60s, and it's pretty obvious where that's taken us. No, can't blame it ALL on removal of Christian teachings, but.... __________________ Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

10-11-2011, 05:37 PM	#12
Juker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Land of Lincoln Contributor Posts: 2,872	Re: Who, What and Why Are These People .... ? Fun, travel, and adventure awaits. So come on, Wall Street crybaby pukes, step up and do something with your lives! Attached Images __________________ SHOOT FIRST. SHOOT SECOND. MOST IMPORTANTLY, BE THE MAN WHO'S SHOOTING LAST.