More Trouble on the Mexican Border - The Firearms Forum

KyBlaster · 01-24-2006, 09:56 AM

The Article

This came from the Daily Bulletin.

Police face Mexican military, smugglers
Armed standoff along U.S. border
By Sara A. Carter and Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writers

Mexican soldiers and civilian smugglers had an armed standoff with nearly 30 U.S. law enforcement officials on the Rio Grande in Texas on Monday afternoon, according to Texas police and the FBI.
Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States, said Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, of the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department.

Mexican Army troops had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border -- near Neely's Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso -- when Border Patrol agents called for backup. Hudspeth County deputies and Texas Highway patrol officers arrived shortly afterward, Doyal said.

"It's been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it's been going on for years," Doyal said. "When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us."

An FBI spokeswoman confirmed the incident happened at 2:15 p.m. Pacific Time.

"Bad guys in three vehicles ended up on the border," said Andrea Simmons, a spokeswoman with the FBI's El Paso office. "People with Humvees, who appeared to be with the Mexican Army, were involved with the three vehicles in getting them back across."

Simmons said the FBI was not involved and referred inquiries to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

ICE did not return calls seeking comment.

Doyal said deputies captured one vehicle in the incident, a Cadillac Escalade reportedly stolen from El Paso, and found 1,477 pounds of marijuana inside. The Mexican soldiers set fire to one of the Humvees stuck in the river, he said.

Doyal's deputies faced a similar incident on Nov. 17, when agents from the Fort Hancock border patrol station in Texas called the sheriff's department for backup after confronting more than six fully armed men dressed in Mexican military uniforms. The men -- who were carrying machine guns and driving military vehicles -- were trying to bring more than three tons of marijuana across the Rio Grande, Doyal said.

Doyal said such incidents are common at Neely's Crossing, which is near Fort Hancock, Texas, and across from the Mexican state of Chihuahua.

"It happens quite often here," he said.

Deputies and border patrol agents are not equipped for combat, he added.

"Our government has to do something," he said. "It's not the immigrants coming over for jobs we're worried about. It's the smugglers, Mexican military and the national threat to our borders that we're worried about."

Citing a Jan. 15 story in the Daily Bulletin, Reps. David Dreier, R-Glendora, and Duncan Hunter, R-San Diego, last week asked the House Judiciary Committee, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the House Homeland Security Committee and the House International Relations Committee to investigate the incursions. The story focused on a Department of Homeland Security document reporting 216 incursions by Mexican soldiers during the past 10 years and a map with the seal of the president's Office of National Drug Control Policy, both of which were given to the newspaper.

Requests by Dreier, chairman of the House Rules Committee, and Hunter were made in jointly signed letters.

On Wednesday, Chertoff played down the reports of border incursions by the Mexican military. He suggested many of the incursions could have been mistakes, blaming bad navigation by military personnel or attributing the incursions to criminals dressed in military garb.

Mexican officials last week denied any incursions made by their military.

But border agents interviewed over the past year have discussed confrontations those they believe to be Mexican military personnel.

"We're sitting ducks," said a border agent speaking on condition of anonymity. "The government has our hands tied."

flopshot · 01-24-2006, 10:10 AM

el paso would be a good place for A10 training

JohnK3 · 01-24-2006, 11:10 AM

Where's Blackjack Pershing when you need him?!?!?!

I grew up in Houston. I met and was friends with lots of legal immigrants from Mexico. These were hardworking, honest types who worked hard to learn to speak English and to become US Citizens. These gangsters in Mexican uniforms are like other Mexican gang-bangers: BULLIES. As long as they think nobody will fight back, they'll keep using their strong-arm tactics to bully US Citizens near the border and infiltrate our country with drugs. The Texas National Guard should be patrolling the border.

If, as Chertoff says, they are criminals dressed in military garb, then ARREST THE CRIMINALS AND INVESTIGATE THEIR STORY!!! If they're criminals, then we'll find out soon enough. If they're Mexican military personell, then we'll find that out, too!

Deputy Dawg · 01-24-2006, 11:58 AM

It is time to take back our Borders. I second the A-10 training. It is now time we meet force with force.We should bring in the Texas National Guard with orders to shoot.

ValleyBoy · 01-24-2006, 12:25 PM

I realy feel a great sense of concern at the thought of armed soldiers, acting in a menacing manner on our borders. An illiegal immigrant is one thing and should be dealt with in an appropriate, dignified, and humane manner. But another country's soldier? Dead where they stand!

ValleyBoy · 01-24-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnK3

I grew up in Houston. I met and was friends with lots of legal immigrants from Mexico. These were hardworking, honest types who worked hard to learn to speak English and to become US Citizens. These gangsters in Mexican uniforms are like other Mexican gang-bangers: BULLIES. As long as they think nobody will fight back, they'll keep using their strong-arm tactics to bully US Citizens near the border and infiltrate our country with drugs.

+1

Gabob · 01-24-2006, 03:26 PM

One good strafing run with the A-10 would break all that crap up.

Marlin · 01-24-2006, 06:31 PM

Pull a Thunderbolt out of retirement and turn loose of all eight 50s!!!!

Marlin T · 01-24-2006, 07:22 PM

One word, Apache.

They could double up and shoot those people that run from the H way patol too!

Those high speed chases really piss me off. It isn't the driver in the chased vehicle that usually gets killed or hurt.

polishshooter · 01-24-2006, 11:05 PM

You know, if I had just a little more vavation time and a little more money to spend, I think I just might volunteer to help the "Minutemen" for a week or so...

I DO need to tell you a story though...I travel a lot, and on the way home late one night I stopped for dinner at a 'Golden Corral," outside of Indy, and there was a nice looking Mexican family, about three generations, Grandma, Gramps, Mom, Dad and three kids, youngest in a high chair...all talking in Spanish, too darn fast for my 20 year old rusty at BEST Espanol to even EAVESDROP...

...And I was having a bad day, not a REAL good mood, going to get home LATE and had listened on the way home from another Sean Hannity report from the border, so I'm eating my steak and cold broccoli and starting to think "unAmerican thoughts" about immigrants...when I hear the teenaged boy playing with his younger (about 3 yr old) brother in a high chair, start teaching him to count...Uno... UNO! Dos...DOS! Tres...TRES! (and I'm thinking under my breath, how about teaching the little Mexican ENGLISH and giving him a CHANCE to be an AMERICAN...) when they get to Diez DIEZ....and the teenager starts in with ....Won WON! Two..TWO! Tree...TREE!....

And I got a REALLY warm feeling all over...(even though the boy missed "six" and said "Ocho" for 8. he DID nail NINE and TEN...

)

It REALLY was just ANY other first and second generation HARD WORKING immigrant middle class AMERICAN family out for a meal...

And when I went by and smiled and told them the little guy was going to end up smarter than all of us, they all smiled and said THANK YOU!

I might just be LUCKY that I'm a third or fourth generation decendent of an immigrant who came when it was EXPECTED that you learned English and DIDN'T teach the kids Polish if you wanted him to "succeed..."

They really were trying to assimilate, and there's ALWAYS room for THAT kind here....from ANYWHERE....

Pistolenschutze · 01-24-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

They really were trying to assimilate, and there's ALWAYS room for THAT kind here....from ANYWHERE....

Absopositively, Polish. This great land was built by immigrants, hard-working honest people who came here to begin a new life, to become AMERICANS! With them I have no quarrel whatsoever, and never shall. To those relative few, however, who flaunt our laws, ignore our customs, and abuse the privileges of this land, I say, BEWARE. I truly sense an emerging, deep-seated, burning anger in the American people against this blatant disregard for our sovereignty and way of life. And once aroused, there is nothing on the face of this planet more powerful.

polishshooter · 01-25-2006, 12:09 AM

Oh I hear you, PS, there's a BIG difference between "legal immigrants" and "parasites..."

I also have NO problem philosphically with "Guest Workers," who do NOT intend to stay, but are on their BEST behaviour while they are our "Guests..." and LEAVE when they are supposed to!

Heck, I just MAY have some (very little) sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants if their motives are to BE AMERICANS...and to work hard to have a better life...maybe we DO need to streamline the process so they can do the right thing LEGALLY... we ARE the "City on the Hill" that beckons to MANY peoples yearning to be free...can you really blame them? Especially if the option is living somewhere like the garbage dumps outside Manilla? Or a hovel somewhere in Ghana?

But YEAH, we BETTER get a handle on our borders, and soon! The "Parasites" just may be the death of us all, or at least our country as we know it....

SouthernMoss · 01-25-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

You know, if I had just a little more vavation time and a little more money to spend, I think I just might volunteer to help the "Minutemen" for a week or so...

Not sure if you're aware, but one of our own, 1952Sniper, did just that. Here's his account: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25696

BobMcG · 01-27-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopshot

el paso would be a good place for A10 training

Sounds like a plan to me.

01-24-2006, 09:56 AM	#1
KyBlaster V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 250	More Trouble on the Mexican Border The Article This came from the Daily Bulletin. Police face Mexican military, smugglers Armed standoff along U.S. border By Sara A. Carter and Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writers Mexican soldiers and civilian smugglers had an armed standoff with nearly 30 U.S. law enforcement officials on the Rio Grande in Texas on Monday afternoon, according to Texas police and the FBI. Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States, said Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, of the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department. Mexican Army troops had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border -- near Neely's Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso -- when Border Patrol agents called for backup. Hudspeth County deputies and Texas Highway patrol officers arrived shortly afterward, Doyal said. "It's been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it's been going on for years," Doyal said. "When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us." An FBI spokeswoman confirmed the incident happened at 2:15 p.m. Pacific Time. "Bad guys in three vehicles ended up on the border," said Andrea Simmons, a spokeswoman with the FBI's El Paso office. "People with Humvees, who appeared to be with the Mexican Army, were involved with the three vehicles in getting them back across." Simmons said the FBI was not involved and referred inquiries to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE did not return calls seeking comment. Doyal said deputies captured one vehicle in the incident, a Cadillac Escalade reportedly stolen from El Paso, and found 1,477 pounds of marijuana inside. The Mexican soldiers set fire to one of the Humvees stuck in the river, he said. Doyal's deputies faced a similar incident on Nov. 17, when agents from the Fort Hancock border patrol station in Texas called the sheriff's department for backup after confronting more than six fully armed men dressed in Mexican military uniforms. The men -- who were carrying machine guns and driving military vehicles -- were trying to bring more than three tons of marijuana across the Rio Grande, Doyal said. Doyal said such incidents are common at Neely's Crossing, which is near Fort Hancock, Texas, and across from the Mexican state of Chihuahua. "It happens quite often here," he said. Deputies and border patrol agents are not equipped for combat, he added. "Our government has to do something," he said. "It's not the immigrants coming over for jobs we're worried about. It's the smugglers, Mexican military and the national threat to our borders that we're worried about." Citing a Jan. 15 story in the Daily Bulletin, Reps. David Dreier, R-Glendora, and Duncan Hunter, R-San Diego, last week asked the House Judiciary Committee, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the House Homeland Security Committee and the House International Relations Committee to investigate the incursions. The story focused on a Department of Homeland Security document reporting 216 incursions by Mexican soldiers during the past 10 years and a map with the seal of the president's Office of National Drug Control Policy, both of which were given to the newspaper. Requests by Dreier, chairman of the House Rules Committee, and Hunter were made in jointly signed letters. On Wednesday, Chertoff played down the reports of border incursions by the Mexican military. He suggested many of the incursions could have been mistakes, blaming bad navigation by military personnel or attributing the incursions to criminals dressed in military garb. Mexican officials last week denied any incursions made by their military. But border agents interviewed over the past year have discussed confrontations those they believe to be Mexican military personnel. "We're sitting ducks," said a border agent speaking on condition of anonymity. "The government has our hands tied." __________________ "From my cold, dead hands"-- Charlton Heston 2000 -->

01-24-2006, 10:10 AM	#2
flopshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 294	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border el paso would be a good place for A10 training __________________ take a kid shooting... they are the next vote

01-24-2006, 11:10 AM	#3
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border Where's Blackjack Pershing when you need him?!?!?! I grew up in Houston. I met and was friends with lots of legal immigrants from Mexico. These were hardworking, honest types who worked hard to learn to speak English and to become US Citizens. These gangsters in Mexican uniforms are like other Mexican gang-bangers: BULLIES. As long as they think nobody will fight back, they'll keep using their strong-arm tactics to bully US Citizens near the border and infiltrate our country with drugs. The Texas National Guard should be patrolling the border. If, as Chertoff says, they are criminals dressed in military garb, then ARREST THE CRIMINALS AND INVESTIGATE THEIR STORY!!! If they're criminals, then we'll find out soon enough. If they're Mexican military personell, then we'll find that out, too!

01-24-2006, 11:58 AM	#4
Deputy Dawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 2,229	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border It is time to take back our Borders. I second the A-10 training. It is now time we meet force with force.We should bring in the Texas National Guard with orders to shoot. __________________ LOCK and LOAD................................... GOD, GUNS,GUTS the three that keep us FREE!!!! Last edited by Deputy Dawg; 01-24-2006 at 12:00 PM..

01-24-2006, 12:25 PM	#5
ValleyBoy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 50	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border I realy feel a great sense of concern at the thought of armed soldiers, acting in a menacing manner on our borders. An illiegal immigrant is one thing and should be dealt with in an appropriate, dignified, and humane manner. But another country's soldier? Dead where they stand! __________________ " A gun is a tool, no better or worse than the man behind it."

01-24-2006, 03:26 PM	#7
Gabob Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW GA CSA Posts: 1,161	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border One good strafing run with the A-10 would break all that crap up. __________________ NRA Endowment Member Keep Your Powder Dry

01-24-2006, 06:31 PM	#8
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border Pull a Thunderbolt out of retirement and turn loose of all eight 50s!!!! __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-24-2006, 07:22 PM	#9
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border One word, Apache. They could double up and shoot those people that run from the H way patol too! Those high speed chases really piss me off. It isn't the driver in the chased vehicle that usually gets killed or hurt. __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

01-24-2006, 11:05 PM	#10
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border You know, if I had just a little more vavation time and a little more money to spend, I think I just might volunteer to help the "Minutemen" for a week or so... I DO need to tell you a story though...I travel a lot, and on the way home late one night I stopped for dinner at a 'Golden Corral," outside of Indy, and there was a nice looking Mexican family, about three generations, Grandma, Gramps, Mom, Dad and three kids, youngest in a high chair...all talking in Spanish, too darn fast for my 20 year old rusty at BEST Espanol to even EAVESDROP... ...And I was having a bad day, not a REAL good mood, going to get home LATE and had listened on the way home from another Sean Hannity report from the border, so I'm eating my steak and cold broccoli and starting to think "unAmerican thoughts" about immigrants...when I hear the teenaged boy playing with his younger (about 3 yr old) brother in a high chair, start teaching him to count...Uno... UNO! Dos...DOS! Tres...TRES! (and I'm thinking under my breath, how about teaching the little Mexican ENGLISH and giving him a CHANCE to be an AMERICAN...) when they get to Diez DIEZ....and the teenager starts in with ....Won WON! Two..TWO! Tree...TREE!.... And I got a REALLY warm feeling all over...(even though the boy missed "six" and said "Ocho" for 8. he DID nail NINE and TEN... ) It REALLY was just ANY other first and second generation HARD WORKING immigrant middle class AMERICAN family out for a meal... And when I went by and smiled and told them the little guy was going to end up smarter than all of us, they all smiled and said THANK YOU! I might just be LUCKY that I'm a third or fourth generation decendent of an immigrant who came when it was EXPECTED that you learned English and DIDN'T teach the kids Polish if you wanted him to "succeed..." They really were trying to assimilate, and there's ALWAYS room for THAT kind here....from ANYWHERE.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

01-25-2006, 12:09 AM	#12
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: More Trouble on the Mexican Border Oh I hear you, PS, there's a BIG difference between "legal immigrants" and "parasites..." I also have NO problem philosphically with "Guest Workers," who do NOT intend to stay, but are on their BEST behaviour while they are our "Guests..." and LEAVE when they are supposed to! Heck, I just MAY have some (very little) sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants if their motives are to BE AMERICANS...and to work hard to have a better life...maybe we DO need to streamline the process so they can do the right thing LEGALLY... we ARE the "City on the Hill" that beckons to MANY peoples yearning to be free...can you really blame them? Especially if the option is living somewhere like the garbage dumps outside Manilla? Or a hovel somewhere in Ghana? But YEAH, we BETTER get a handle on our borders, and soon! The "Parasites" just may be the death of us all, or at least our country as we know it.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.