More NRA Shinanigans

[Marlin]

It seems to keep getting worse and worse.....

What next ??????????

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NRA Issues Gag Order to Its Board Members on Elena Kagan



Posted by Erick Erickson
Sunday, June 27th at 12:45PM EDT

Internal Senate emails confirmed by NRA Board Members are highlighting just how far the National Rifle Association has fallen.


The organization recently collaborated with the left to obtain a carve out of the DISCLOSE Act, legislation designed to silence bloggers and outside interest groups like tea party activists. This was a first amendment issue and the NRA gladly took a position and campaigned for its members to take a position on the DISCLOSE Act.


One of the NRA’s chief arguments was that it needed the carve out to be effective in its advocacy of Second Amendment issues. But here’s the problem: these internal Senate emails confirmed by NRA Board Members show that the National Rifle Association’s management team has explicitly and directly told the NRA’s board they are prohibited from testifying about second amendment issues during the Elena Kagan confirmation hearings.


That’s right: the foremost gun rights lobby in the nation is prohibiting its board from testifying in the Elena Kagan confirmation hearings about the second amendment.


The NRA did issue a statement on Friday after the internal Senate email began leaking out informing people of the gag order. The statement noted Kagan’s problematic record on guns, but that’s just smoke and mirrors.


Don’t believe them when they say they are working with Senators to investigate her record. If they were really working with Senators, they would have accepted an invitation to testify on the Kagan nomination when they were invited. The gag order on board members is not limited to providing testimony, but it prohibits board members from coming out against Kagan in their individual capacity.



If the NRA is really working with pro-guns Senators and Kagan is really hostile to Second Amendment rights, which she is, they will score her confirmation vote and actually make the score count this time, unlike they did on the confirmation of Sonya Sotomayor. With Sotomayor, they waited until several days after RedState began demanding a score and then, in effect, announced they’d score it and ignore it.


First they collaborated with the left to get the DISCLOSE Act through the House, now they are blocking their own from speaking out against Elena Kagan. Is this the deal the NRA cut with the left? They get a carveout and shut up their board?

[AL MOUNT]

I want to gag when I see a picture of Ms. Kagan......

[rentalguy1]

Anybody else seeing these signs from the NRA as the beginning of the end?

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

Anybody else seeing these signs from the NRA as the beginning of the end?

no.....the DISCLOSE Act was going to pass with a House and Senate majority, and as a result would have restricted speech for all such groups....the NRA compromised and did what they had to do to ensure they could at least be able to have their say in pre-election times. I agree it sucks for other groups, but at least the NRA will be able to broadcast many commercials prior to the elections and I'm sure turning many voters to vote conservative.

If the NRA had not compromised, it is likely all would have lost. If GOA can get over 1 million members, then they too will be exempt.

Martin....I know you despise the NRA....but please, for the sake of keeping TFF cohesive on a single theme of protecting the 2nd Amendment, please stop trashing the NRA. It would be different if it was a "regular" TFF member, but you are like the "Grand Poo Pa" of this place...so it's like the leadership of this forum is anti-NRA, and thus pushing an anti-NRA agenda.

[rentalguy1]

I'm sorry, but I cannot support a group that is willing to trample on the 1st Amendment right of everyone else, that they can still freely speak. This is a huge affront on the rights of everyone, and if they do not change their tune, then I hope they go down in flames with the dems.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by new308handloader

If the NRA had not compromised, it is likely all would have lost. If GOA can get over 1 million members, then they too will be exempt.

Martin....I know you despise the NRA....but please, for the sake of keeping TFF cohesive on a single theme of protecting the 2nd Amendment, please stop trashing the NRA. It would be different if it was a "regular" TFF member, but you are like the "Grand Poo Pa" of this place...so it's like the leadership of this forum is anti-NRA, and thus pushing an anti-NRA agenda.

He posted a story from another source. He didn't say those things. The NRA did them, and a story writer wrote about it.

Why is it such a problem to bring such things to light? I understand that you and others here are passionate about the NRA, but, it's the NRA that is proving itself to be two faced, NOT the senior/members/Mods here. They are simply bringing us the information and asking relevant questions.

The leaders/mods here are NOT anti-NRA, they are anti-compromise on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms. When the NRA compromises, or ANY organization compromises, they should be exposed.

The NRA wants to be BIG, they want to be the big dog on the block when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues. Well, when the big dog lets you down, EVERYONE should know about it. If they keep making these types of decisions - compromises - they will fulfill the faithful saying: "the bigger they are....the harder they fall."

[Marlin]

Originally Posted by new308handloader

Martin....I know you despise the NRA....but please, for the sake of keeping TFF cohesive on a single theme of protecting the 2nd Amendment, please stop trashing the NRA. It would be different if it was a "regular" TFF member, but you are like the "Grand Poo Pa" of this place...so it's like the leadership of this forum is anti-NRA, and thus pushing an anti-NRA agenda.

First, the name IS NOT Martin...

Secondly, I do not hate the NRA. After all I am a longtime Life Member, going on fifty years.

I am, however, very upset that they seem to wish to compromise, which leads to surrender little by little.

My post is not my words, but those of a reliable reporter siting statements by the management of NRA ordering its board to be subject to a gag order.

Like Jack Webb, I just report the FACTS, Ma'am.....

[Eddie N]

I have to agree, Marlin. Compromise is not always, if ever, a good thing. If what I read is true, then, it looks like the NRA needs a whole new (board of directors)? If compromise is part of a bigger plan, then it better be a good one. Just my 2 cents.

[al45lc]

Perhaps it's time for another Cincinnati.

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

I'm sorry, but I cannot support a group that is willing to trample on the 1st Amendment right of everyone else, that they can still freely speak. This is a huge affront on the rights of everyone, and if they do not change their tune, then I hope they go down in flames with the dems.

I don't think they trampled on the rights of everyone else, that they could speak freely.....had the law passed without the comprimise of the NRA, ALL groups would have lost their 1st Ammendment rights....I think the NRA was powerful enough to make sure they were exempt. Do I wish the NRA had stuck up for all other groups and not just their own? Yes....maybe they tried but that was a show stopper and without the comprimise all would have lost.

Almost every significant pro-gun advance has been because of the NRA....members of this forum most likely can carry in their state because of the NRA.

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by graehaven

He posted a story from another source. He didn't say those things. The NRA did them, and a story writer wrote about it.

Why is it such a problem to bring such things to light? I understand that you and others here are passionate about the NRA, but, it's the NRA that is proving itself to be two faced, NOT the senior/members/Mods here. They are simply bringing us the information and asking relevant questions.

The leaders/mods here are NOT anti-NRA, they are anti-compromise on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms. When the NRA compromises, or ANY organization compromises, they should be exposed.

The NRA wants to be BIG, they want to be the big dog on the block when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues. Well, when the big dog lets you down, EVERYONE should know about it. If they keep making these types of decisions - compromises - they will fulfill the faithful saying: "the bigger they are....the harder they fall."

I believe it is more than just bringing information to light....previous post show clearly a dislike of the NRA.

As pro 2nd Ammendment people, we don't want compromise...we want to carry without permits...I totally agree...BUT, in many cases, without compromise you wont even get a little of what you want (carry with permits)...you end up with nothing. If getting to the ultimate end game of carry in all states without permits means getting there via compromise, than I am OK with that.

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by Marlin

First, the name IS NOT Martin...

Secondly, I do not hate the NRA. After all I am a longtime Life Member, going on fifty years.

I am, however, very upset that they seem to wish to compromise, which leads to surrender little by little.

My post is not my words, but those of a reliable reporter siting statements by the management of NRA ordering its board to be subject to a gag order.

Like Jack Webb, I just report the FACTS, Ma'am.....

Marlin...I am so sorry I mis-typed your name...no disrespect was intended.
Why don't the NRA and GOA work together? Of all the NRA mags and literature I have read, I have never seen the NRA bash GOA.....but GOA members bashing the NRA, yes. I actually am very open minded and will often change my mind based on new information to me....but I am having a hard time thinking the group that fought for all these rights is somehow bad.

Is the government bad? No, but certain elements in government are bad (more these days with all the Liberals)
Is the NRA bad? No, but certain elements might be bad....and certain elements in GOA might be bad.....as within any organization.

[wpage]

We will regret the day Kagan gets on the court.

[Nighthawk]

When the NRA is the only one who can support guns thru free speech then
just the threat of losing this monopoly will make them toe the line.

[Bobitis]

That's a different perspective.

Hmmm...

[rentalguy1]

Originally Posted by new308handloader

I don't think they trampled on the rights of everyone else, that they could speak freely.....had the law passed without the comprimise of the NRA, ALL groups would have lost their 1st Ammendment rights....I think the NRA was powerful enough to make sure they were exempt. Do I wish the NRA had stuck up for all other groups and not just their own? Yes....maybe they tried but that was a show stopper and without the comprimise all would have lost.

Almost every significant pro-gun advance has been because of the NRA....members of this forum most likely can carry in their state because of the NRA.

You're saying exactly the same thing they are; so long as they are not silenced, it is ok. No! It's not ok!

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by Marlin

It seems to keep getting worse and worse.....

What next ??????????

Snicker.......snicker.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by pickenup

Snicker.......snicker.

Yea, its hillarious. Without the NRA, the left wing lunitics will freely write laws however they see fit. What other organization do the politicians fear? While everyone laughs, its the leftist anti gunners that are winning. Not so funny anymore. Is it going to take loosing it all for us to unite? Sorry but I cant afford to wait until then. The NRA is no where near perfect, but I will add this...Those of you without sin may cast the first stone......Yea, didnt think so, it cant be done. Nobody is perfect and no organization is either. I will continue to pray for our NRA leaders.

[zaxx]

This administration would like nothing better than to tighten its strangle-hold on the Bill of Rights. Particularly the first and second amendments. The Disclose Act is crap legislation in the first place. However, it's my understanding that by its action the NRA has put itself in position to be vocal when other smaller entities cannot. The NRA can now speak to its own agenda as well as support other related issues the Disclose Act would have axed for smaller outfits.

Compromise, in this case, was a necessary evil.

Let me add that I am not a big fan of Wayne LaPierre or his tactics, but I am an NRA member.

[rentalguy1]

Originally Posted by Double D

Yea, its hillarious. Without the NRA, the left wing lunitics will freely write laws however they see fit. What other organization do the politicians fear? While everyone laughs, its the leftist anti gunners that are winning. Not so funny anymore. Is it going to take loosing it all for us to unite? Sorry but I cant afford to wait until then. The NRA is no where near perfect, but I will add this...Those of you without sin may cast the first stone......Yea, didnt think so, it cant be done. Nobody is perfect and no organization is either. I will continue to pray for our NRA leaders.

If you think the politicians "fear" the NRA, you are only fooling yourself.

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

You're saying exactly the same thing they are; so long as they are not silenced, it is ok. No! It's not ok!

Perhaps....but maybe you are not seeing the outcome had the NRA not compromised.

Had the NRA not compromised, the bill would have passed and then no group could have done pre-election commercials, ads, articles. At lease the NRA can now play their commercials, ads, articles and almost certainly will convert many voters....that is a good thing.

Do I wish the GOA could now also be exempt? Yes...but I honestly don't ever recall seeing any commercial that they have made.
Should the NRA have fought for GOA and had them included in the criteria that meets exemption? Yes...IF the GOA doesn't bash the NRA every chance they get....but they do...would you want to help someone that bashes you all the time?
GOA can easily become exempt themselves.....obtain over 1 million members....if they stop bashing the NRA, then GOA will be +1 (me...I will join).

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by zaxx

Compromise, in this case, was a necessary evil.

Let me add that I am not a big fan of Wayne LaPierre or his tactics, but I am an NRA member.

+1 My thoughts exactly

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by Marlin

First, the name IS NOT Martin...

Secondly, I do not hate the NRA. After all I am a longtime Life Member, going on fifty years.

I am, however, very upset that they seem to wish to compromise, which leads to surrender little by little.
My post is not my words, but those of a reliable reporter siting statements by the management of NRA ordering its board to be subject to a gag order.

Like Jack Webb, I just report the FACTS, Ma'am.....

I'm with you on that one, and it seems that's exactly what's going on.
Ive been a member for several years and reading everything I can on what's
going on with the NRA. It is somewhat disheartening and I for one am waiting to see how this all plays out with the NRA and just where exactly they stand and they need to "pull their (stuff)" together and quick as not to compromise
what the have stood for all this time.

[new308handloader]

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

If you think the politicians "fear" the NRA, you are only fooling yourself.

I must adamantly disagree…..it is generally considered an undisputed fact that the “Left” fears the NRA and its ability to stop/counter/hinder anti-gun bills. The Dems themselves admit they lost previous elections because of the NRA.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

When the NRA is the only one who can support guns thru free speech then
just the threat of losing this monopoly will make them toe the line.

This is a VERY good point, and should not be ignored.

Nor should TFF members here get caught up taking the discussion too personally or allowing it to develop into a hurtful tit for tat flame war.

The point is that the NRA is NOT the awesome worshipfullness that many claim it to be. With its largess comes corruption - there is no denying that. With its longevity in the nation's capitol, it has become as much a compromising ORG as any lobbying group / special interest group, and as principled supporters, we expect more than that.

We are getting bogged down in the semantics of the discussion. The assertion that ground is gained in the 2nd Amendment battle by compromise is not a logical conclusion. Further compromise becomes the "expected norm" and politicians know this. EVERY little bit of compromise leads to LOST ground in the overall fight.

In effect what we are doing by supporting such ORGs in this fight is simply delaying the inevitable... that being the full surrender of all firearms to a totalitarian government. It WILL happen eventually. Understanding THAT fact is paramount, and gives proper perspective.

All this said....I'm glad to have so MANY brothers on here who are concerned about 2A rights and retaining them / protecting them. All of us are RIGHT in THAT.