What is the optimal Survival Rifle? - The Firearms Forum

scotticism101 · 05-30-2003, 09:57 PM

Hey all, Im looking for what is the optimal survival rifle. This is a rifle for a bushplane in Alaska, and a takedown rifle is needed. I need it to fit my budget, under about $500, and it should be realativly easy for a beginner shooter to shoot if they have a basic knowlage about guns, in case anything happens to me in a crash situation, so not a really large caliber.

thanks to all

Happy Hunting

Smokin Guns · 05-30-2003, 10:08 PM

Nice handle!...Gunna have to think about the kind of gun your looking for?...Don't you have any caliber desire?...

scotticism101 · 05-30-2003, 10:21 PM

sorry smokin guns, i dont know a whole lot about guns, thats why im askin you!

somethin smaller, like a .223, .22, to about a .30 .

pickenup · 05-30-2003, 11:10 PM

Hello scotticism101.
Welcome to TFF.
If you are just talking about a 22 caliber. Where you can throw a box of 50 rounds of ammo in your pocket, with room to spare, then the Charter arms AR-7 is a dandy little survival rifle. It all folds up into the plastic stock. Snaps tight and floats. This rifle is NOT a tack driver, but it would put meat over the fire, if you do your part.

bigboom338 · 05-30-2003, 11:58 PM

Welcome to TFF Scotticism ,hope you enjoy our site.
Another option would be a Springfield armory M6 Scout rifle it is a break action stack barrel ,the top barrel comes in 22 lr or 22 Hornet and the bottom is a 410 shotgun, stainless steel or parkerized for around $200 bucks. I will assume that other guys and gals will come along and give you 20 more suggestions and really confuse you. Good luck in your search.

misiu · 05-31-2003, 01:18 AM

Hello Scotticism and welcome to our site:

Firstly let me say that the above post is right-if you ask 20 of us you will probably get 20 different answers. One of the reasons for that is that you don't provide enough info as to your use for this gun. Eg: Do you just want it to be able to shoot small game for food? Do you want it for a source of self protection against predators? These answers will make a big difference in the type of gun you want. I live and hunt in Grizz country and I fly airplanes so I will give you an alternative that will offer some protection against bears, wolves,etc. and yet be usable for hunting smaller game while not kicking the heck out of you.

Three choices come to my mind:
1-Winchester model 94 in .307 Win. - While not a powerhouse will give some protection against bears and shoots relatively flat. Rifle is not a take down but is short enough to fit into a small airplane comfortably.

2-Winchester model 94 in .356 Win. - A much better gun for protection and same comments as to size.

3.Winchester model 94 Trapper model which comes in 3 or 4 calibers of which the best for you would be 30-30 Win. This gun while being the poorest for protection (but still better than any .22) comes with a short 16" barrel which makes storage very easy.

Finally consider a short barreled shotgun which may be your best all around choice.

Good luck:

Slimslam · 05-31-2003, 08:03 AM

Scotticism,
I'm looking at the Henry US Survival 22LR. It comes in black, silver or camo. It breaks down to 16.5". The MSRP is $189. Go to Henry Repeating Arms website for more info. Good Luck!
SS

05-31-2003, 10:00 AM

Check out the Savage model 24F

http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire...alty/2412f.htm

20 or 12 gauge barrel and a rifle barrel from 22lr to 30-30 it is a break open over under and is 40 inches long and weighs 8 lbs

Check out the Marlin lever action guide guns

steelshooter · 05-31-2003, 10:18 AM

I guess when I think about a “survival rifle” I think about a gun that I would bet my butt on to keep me alive when times got tough. Plane down in nowhere land, lost camping or hiking, camping when the bad guys showed up, home defense, etc. So I’d need a rifle that could put food on the fire, is reasonably lightweight, and had enough firepower to curb the minds of evil doers, be they man or beast.

My choice? An AR-15 and a few magazines. I could take small game, deer sized game, defend myself and family very well from those with less than good intentions. If you ran into the rare bear that would like to see you on “his’ dinner plate ( most would just as soon leave you alone ) a magazine of .223’s in the face is likely to send him looking elsewhere. Something to think about, a 55 grain .223 turns out about 1200 ft/lbs. of energy compared to a 240 grain JHP from a .44 mag at 750 ft/lbs.

As you can probably tell I’m not a fan of “survival” rifles. I just don’t believe that I would trust the life of myself or that of my families on some (fill in the blank) rifle. As misiu pointed out with his choices, use a quality rifle. My second choice would be a shotgun as well.

Is an AR expensive? Yup but if “survival “ is at stake…

Oh last minute thought, a Mini 14 would fit the bill nicely. Tons of stock options, reliable, plenty of firepower, lots of high cap magazines out there, and in your price range.

calicollector · 05-31-2003, 10:18 PM

well this is going to fit the bill, but rather loosely. what about a rifle sighted 12 gauge pump shotgun? simple to use, realibale, built to run and runs to last, assuming that its a quality rig, and for $500 theres NO reason it shouldnt be! with rifle sites on it, you could procure deer sized game out to 50 yards reliably using rifled slugs, an assortment of different shot shells could yeild you anything from ptarmigan to bear repelant. its also about as basic and easy to use as i can think of, short of a NEF Handi-Rifle or a NEF type single shot shotgun.
OR..............
if the shotgun isnt your thing, what about a USED .300 Win Mag, .30-06, .308 bolt action rifle?? a few sub caliber inserts fro potting small game, and the full house premium hunting ammo for taking care of business?
the AR-7 is a good foraging tool, reliable, easy to use, although some folks for some reason dont seem to be able to put one together without some instruction.. wich never ceases to amaze me. ive got an AR-7 Industries AR-7 and im happy with it.. henry currently produces one as well right now, shamelessly marketed as the "Henry Survival Rifle" ... just a pot hunters rig, no more.
the Savage model 24 is another good choice thats been mentioned, BUT they aint a light rifle, and they are single shot respective of rifle or shotgun, BUT they are a VERY good rifle. ive talked to quite a few folks who own them and they love them.
the Springfield M6 Scout rifle that was mentioned is another good foraging rifle. they have a new version that is chambereed .22lr or .22 Hornet over .45LC/.410 with screw in choke tubes... available in S.S, of course. prety much a good small game forager, no more no less, with teh ability to take deer sized game. i question its bear repelant properties though.
i dont want to sound like im pimping anyone off to another forum, and i dont want to sound like i have ANY doubts as to the knowledge of the extremely knowledgable members of this forum, but if youd like to talk to some survival oriented people about this subject, i can suggest 2 forums on EZBoards. Survival Oriented as in Wilderness type survival.
first is Hoods Woods, ran by Ron and karen Hood. very good people, they produce a video series to teach people wilderness survival. they know their stuff! plain and simple. the link is:
http://pub1.ezboard.com/bhoodlums
the other is Plainsmans Cabin, its ran by a gent whos name of course is Plainsman. a good guy with a forum that deals with subjects ranging from wilderness survival to other sorts of survival. the link is:
http://pub35.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin.html?
the first place id go to would be Hoods Woods being that this would be primarily a wilderness survival thing, and then Plainsmans cabin. if youd like, tell them i sent you... theyll treat you well at both places as you are though. hope this helps, Ray in California
p.s. im known as CaliCollector on those forums.

wuzzagrunt · 06-02-2003, 01:48 AM

...or down here (depending on your perspective) in the Northeast the weapon of choice for nutritional sustenance would be a book of coupons from a Denny's resturant. There's hardly anyplace you could go down that's not within a few hours walk of a sit-down eatery. A pistol would be handy to deal with (two-legged) predators.

For an Alaskan bush pilot, the equation changes. There are lots of ways to snare small game without a gun. With a little ingenuity, you could feed yourself like a king without firing a shot. Defense against bears would be utmost on my mind. That means a repeater with some real energy.

For bears, a 12 gauge pump gun is pretty effective and the price is right (about $300 used) They are not take-down in any meaningful sense but you can get one with a folding stock--so I guess that qualifies. The Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70 or .450 Marlin are very handy and under $500.00. Wild West Guns makes a take-down Marlin Guide Gun in .450 that is the bees knees. They are way expensive, though. Remington makes a nice short action magnum based on the old Model 600 in .350 Rem. Mag. That also is a bit more than you wanted to spend but still a spiffy little rifle. Just the ticket for negotiating real estate deals with big bears.

I'd say: get a used Remington 870 slug gun and carry slugs for bears, 000 buck for two legged vermin and a couple of shells loaded with #6 shot for bagging grouse and ptarmagin. For survival purposes, you have my permission to bushwhack 'em on the ground.

Slimslam · 06-02-2003, 02:06 PM

calicollector,
Please elaborate from your experience as to the better value/choice between the Survival Arms AR7 v. the Henry US Survival 22 LR, ie., durability, reliability, etc. The price appears to similar. I appreciate your help. Thanks.
SS

Logansdad · 06-03-2003, 04:19 PM

I was born and raised in Alaska...I wouldn't recommend a .22lr..I'd be more inclined towards a Remington 870 Marine Magnum or a stainless Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum with a peep sight

Marlin · 06-03-2003, 07:38 PM

From one Scot to another, Welcome, Scotticism. Hope you will join us frequently.

I would buy into the Marlin 1894 .44 mag. I have one and love it!

calicollector · 06-05-2003, 02:37 AM

SlimSlam, i own a AR-7 Industries Ar-7 and am happy with it. i bought it over a henry for a couple reasons. one id heard of folks having probs with henry's and i figured the AR-7 built from the original plans and improved would be better. not really a trial and error purchase. Henry kind of pi$$es me off with their shameless name of "the HENRY Survival Rifle" like THEY designed and invented it instead of Eugene Stoner. so me being the irritable kinda sort i am, i dont buy shameless fallacies like that. my AR-7 has only had one real problem.. and it was kinda MY fault i guess for not paying attention. the rear sight screw backed out of my rifle and got lost, the peep site plate stayed though thankfully. AR-7 industries wanted more than i was willing to spend for a stupid screw, so a trip to Orchard Supply Hardware and about $0.65 got me a bag of a few stainless steel screws of appropriate thread size and pitch, so now i have a SS screw that i may or may not ever paint to match... memory says the rifle has been reliable and accurate, its been awhile since i shot it.. i havent been shooting for tooo long... and i can only shoot so many at once...lol.
im sorry, but i doubt ill be of any help on this one.. i like my AR-7 Industries AR-7 and ive advised people before to puchase one, and those that i know who have bought one, have been happy with them. the rifles arent tack drivers, just foraging rifles. sorry i cant be of more help. Ray in California

Cow Caregiver · 06-08-2003, 01:14 PM

These folks have all posted some good ideas. That said, I don't think the .22 is the optimum round for your purposes. If the kind of luck you're having strands you in the boonies, it will probably hand you something to solve that will need more gun. Same with the single shot items. Get yourself a good .303 British Enfield, which you can find for $75 or so, and have a gunsmith convert it to takedown for you. This will cost you another $100 or $150. Then practice with it until you get good. .303 is available if you come down on the Canadian side of the line, which is one reason I recommend it.

The Number 4 Enfield with the peep sight is the better way to go, even if you have to pay a bit more for the gun. If you need a .22, get a Ruger auto pistol and keep it with the Enfield. Fine small game gun, and you don't run off all the game with the roar of the .303.

Now, there's my two cents worth.

Logansdad · 06-08-2003, 05:45 PM

If I had to have an AR-7 I'd take the Henry before I'd take any others...

the major · 07-09-2003, 06:19 PM

I use a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 with Williams Peep Sight, will work great on anything.

wsmc667 · 08-11-2003, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by steelshooter
I guess when I think about a “survival rifle” I think about a gun that I would bet my butt on to keep me alive when times got tough. ... My choice? An AR-15 and a few magazines. ... Oh last minute thought, a Mini 14 would fit the bill nicely. Tons of stock options, reliable, plenty of firepower, lots of high cap magazines out there, and in your price range.

yup, i was thinking the same thing!! i've got a ar15 with flat top 16" barrel. take it apart and it fits in a large camping style back pack. or a normal backpack with the barrel sticking out. the upper receiver is 24" long total. red dot and/or iron sights for far away and a 30 round mag or 3 for a bear. i ain't never seen no bear but on tv, but if it's true about loud noises, then they'll turn tail when my ar starts barkin!

i can't agree on the mini14. i shot one. inaccurate as heck, clumsy controls, and felt cheap. ( but i'm spoiled )

chris in sandy eggo

Tony Mig · 08-26-2003, 05:20 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned an SKS with a folding stock.
You need something that breaks down to fit into a small plane, something with some knockdown power, something with a little bit of accuracy....and the Yugo models come with thier own survival knife attacked to the barrel....

7.62 X 39mm will probably stop a bear better than a .223 (5.56mm) round. The SKS comes with a fixed 10 round magazine so there's no dickering around with incerting a mag, just push a stripper clip full into the mag, push the top round down while closing the bolt so you're not bouncing around with a loaded chamber, when the rifle is needed, just pull back the bolt and let it go, and you're ready for anything that comes your way....

The best part is....

SKS.....$139.00 to $169.00
Folding stock.....$80.00 to $100.00
Ammo......dirt cheap........

Hydra Shok · 08-27-2003, 01:34 AM

I thought I was going to be the only one to suggest an SKS till I saw Tony's reply. The SKS is affordable, accurate, easy to clean and maintain, ammo is plentiful and dirt cheap, parts are easy to come by, and plenty of aftermarket pretties to dress one up. Check out www.sksman.com to see some things you can get for them. I ordered a receiver from D.C. Engineering that allowed me to put a 3x9x40 scope on the top and still alllowed me to use the iron sights as well. I also got a muzzle brake from them too. My original wood stock is gone, replaced by a folding stock (pre ban) and I also have a 30 round magazine, that I rarely use but it looks cool and is functional. If I was going to be tromping around in the Alaskan wilderness, where you could become part of the food chain, I wouldn't hesitate to take a SKS with me, and maybe a large caliber magnum revolver.

Here is a link for the scopes at D.C. Engineering http://www.rifletech.com/2direct.htm
They also have stuff for AR's and AK's too, just check out the site.

FN_Project90 · 08-28-2003, 04:49 PM

The thing about those survival rifle to me is usually if you are put into a survival situation and you have one, its merely an extended hunt or I am just cynical. Like I just happen to carry that rifle on planes with me in case it goes down in a remote swamp and I am the only survivor, or something like that.

02-23-2004, 09:55 AM

but mostly because of the .22 lr conversion unit you can get for it ($150, do a yahoo search for Jonathan Arthur Ciener Firearms). I do not believe in having lots of specialized guns. I believe in being truly skilled with the very few guns that a man can always carry. The rifle has to be capable of extreme rapidfire, in case you have to fight several men at once. That leaves out the bolt actions. It needs to be able to penetrate light cover, like a vehicle, and Kevlar concealed armor, which is one of the reasons that the shotgun sucks. It needs to take the GI rifle rd and the .22lr as well, both for training at snapshooting, and for quiet foraging of small game, birds, etc.

You can build an AR without Big Brother knowing anything about it, by starting with the KT Ordnance 80% finished lower receiver. It is $160, no serial number, legal and easy to "finish", and the rest of the parts run about $450, or $500 if you want the CAR15 version. The .22 unit costs no more than does the 10-22 Ruger, and it's a much better training device. It weighs less than 1 lb and stows in the leg pocket of your cammies. It's perfectly legal to use any name you wish, as long as no harm comes to anyone, nor any crime is committed by so doing. For an extra $20, UPS will guarantee" next day" delivery to any place you name. The Driver only wants a signature, not your ID. I recommend doing the same thing for the parts kit.

The KT lower has the hole locations already marked, and the tower for the buttstock extention is already threaded. There is thus no need of $300 worth of drill jig, tap, huge drill bit, etc. Use that drill bit in the threaded portion of the jig, as it's designed for, and you ruin the threads in the jig, so it's unusable more than 1-2 times. So you will never be able to sell it.

02-23-2004, 10:02 AM

both a "foot slogger's" longarm, and guns that are so bulky and heavy (and same goes for their ammo) that you have to have a vehicle in order to lug them around. I also see no reason to take 4x as long for the second shot as need be ( which is what you lock yourself into when you choose a bolt action over an auto-rifle) Nor do I see any reason to settle for just a pistol, or just a .22 rifle, out of concerns for concealability and weight-bulk.

You can have a CAR-15 with a folding stock and have it weigh only 4 lbs, if you start with the CarBon 15 "pistol" and add the stock, as well as either the ZM or Kurt Kustom AK type upper receiver group. These dont require the buffer in the buttstock, you see. You have to add a "removable" carrying handle, in order to get decent rifle sights, and then LocTite the handle onto the grooves.

A regular CAR (with either the "skinny" barrel or a fluted one) weighs 6 lbs, which is 2-3 lbs less than an SKS or a 308 auto rifle. The 223 ammo weighs about half as much as the .30 ammo, as do the magazines. The 223, using good handloads or Black Hills ammo, with Nosler Partition sp';s, will take deer just fine, with careful shots at the ribs, from the side, to 150 yds, and do the same with good FMJ ammo, to 75 yds. It will also brain larger animals just fine, to 50 yds or so (assuming a scope, an unaware animal, and a braced firing position).

02-23-2004, 10:05 AM

and are an expensive, noisy way to take small game. The .22 rifle, or better yet, the AR-15 and .22 conversion, are a far better answer for small game, and the 223 autorifle is a far better combat gun than is the 12 gauge, because of range, penetration, rapidfire, precison, and mag-capacity issues. Trigger jobs, ambi safeties, luminous sights, are all "drop in " modifications to the AR, and expensive, custom gunsmithing for nearly any other lonarm, especially shotguns.

05-30-2003, 09:57 PM	#1
scotticism101 Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 5	What is the optimal Survival Rifle? Hey all, Im looking for what is the optimal survival rifle. This is a rifle for a bushplane in Alaska, and a takedown rifle is needed. I need it to fit my budget, under about $500, and it should be realativly easy for a beginner shooter to shoot if they have a basic knowlage about guns, in case anything happens to me in a crash situation, so not a really large caliber. thanks to all Happy Hunting __________________ "Beware the fury of the patient man" "I don't want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do, I hire a lawyer to tell me how to do what I want to do." - J.P. Morgan -->

05-30-2003, 10:08 PM	#2
Smokin Guns Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"... Posts: 4,463	Welcome to you scotticism101... Nice handle!...Gunna have to think about the kind of gun your looking for?...Don't you have any caliber desire?... __________________

05-30-2003, 10:21 PM	#3
scotticism101 Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 5	sorry smokin guns, i dont know a whole lot about guns, thats why im askin you! somethin smaller, like a .223, .22, to about a .30 . __________________ "Beware the fury of the patient man" "I don't want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do, I hire a lawyer to tell me how to do what I want to do." - J.P. Morgan

05-30-2003, 11:10 PM	#4
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,838	Hello scotticism101. Welcome to TFF. If you are just talking about a 22 caliber. Where you can throw a box of 50 rounds of ammo in your pocket, with room to spare, then the Charter arms AR-7 is a dandy little survival rifle. It all folds up into the plastic stock. Snaps tight and floats. This rifle is NOT a tack driver, but it would put meat over the fire, if you do your part. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

05-30-2003, 11:58 PM	#5
bigboom338 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 399	Welcome to TFF Scotticism ,hope you enjoy our site. Another option would be a Springfield armory M6 Scout rifle it is a break action stack barrel ,the top barrel comes in 22 lr or 22 Hornet and the bottom is a 410 shotgun, stainless steel or parkerized for around $200 bucks. I will assume that other guys and gals will come along and give you 20 more suggestions and really confuse you. Good luck in your search. __________________ "Aim Small Miss Small"

05-31-2003, 01:18 AM	#6
misiu V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: British Columbia Posts: 158	Hello Scotticism and welcome to our site: Firstly let me say that the above post is right-if you ask 20 of us you will probably get 20 different answers. One of the reasons for that is that you don't provide enough info as to your use for this gun. Eg: Do you just want it to be able to shoot small game for food? Do you want it for a source of self protection against predators? These answers will make a big difference in the type of gun you want. I live and hunt in Grizz country and I fly airplanes so I will give you an alternative that will offer some protection against bears, wolves,etc. and yet be usable for hunting smaller game while not kicking the heck out of you. Three choices come to my mind: 1-Winchester model 94 in .307 Win. - While not a powerhouse will give some protection against bears and shoots relatively flat. Rifle is not a take down but is short enough to fit into a small airplane comfortably. 2-Winchester model 94 in .356 Win. - A much better gun for protection and same comments as to size. 3.Winchester model 94 Trapper model which comes in 3 or 4 calibers of which the best for you would be 30-30 Win. This gun while being the poorest for protection (but still better than any .22) comes with a short 16" barrel which makes storage very easy. Finally consider a short barreled shotgun which may be your best all around choice. Good luck: __________________ Good hunting and shooting: John

05-31-2003, 08:03 AM	#7
Slimslam V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 124	Survival Scotticism, I'm looking at the Henry US Survival 22LR. It comes in black, silver or camo. It breaks down to 16.5". The MSRP is $189. Go to Henry Repeating Arms website for more info. Good Luck! SS __________________ All Rights Reserved c. 1791

05-31-2003, 10:00 AM	#8
warpig Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Check out the Savage model 24F http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire...alty/2412f.htm 20 or 12 gauge barrel and a rifle barrel from 22lr to 30-30 it is a break open over under and is 40 inches long and weighs 8 lbs Check out the Marlin lever action guide guns

05-31-2003, 10:18 AM	#9
steelshooter Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 8	I guess when I think about a “survival rifle” I think about a gun that I would bet my butt on to keep me alive when times got tough. Plane down in nowhere land, lost camping or hiking, camping when the bad guys showed up, home defense, etc. So I’d need a rifle that could put food on the fire, is reasonably lightweight, and had enough firepower to curb the minds of evil doers, be they man or beast. My choice? An AR-15 and a few magazines. I could take small game, deer sized game, defend myself and family very well from those with less than good intentions. If you ran into the rare bear that would like to see you on “his’ dinner plate ( most would just as soon leave you alone ) a magazine of .223’s in the face is likely to send him looking elsewhere. Something to think about, a 55 grain .223 turns out about 1200 ft/lbs. of energy compared to a 240 grain JHP from a .44 mag at 750 ft/lbs. As you can probably tell I’m not a fan of “survival” rifles. I just don’t believe that I would trust the life of myself or that of my families on some (fill in the blank) rifle. As misiu pointed out with his choices, use a quality rifle. My second choice would be a shotgun as well. Is an AR expensive? Yup but if “survival “ is at stake… Oh last minute thought, a Mini 14 would fit the bill nicely. Tons of stock options, reliable, plenty of firepower, lots of high cap magazines out there, and in your price range.

05-31-2003, 10:18 PM	#10
calicollector Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: california Posts: 30	all around survival "rifle" well this is going to fit the bill, but rather loosely. what about a rifle sighted 12 gauge pump shotgun? simple to use, realibale, built to run and runs to last, assuming that its a quality rig, and for $500 theres NO reason it shouldnt be! with rifle sites on it, you could procure deer sized game out to 50 yards reliably using rifled slugs, an assortment of different shot shells could yeild you anything from ptarmigan to bear repelant. its also about as basic and easy to use as i can think of, short of a NEF Handi-Rifle or a NEF type single shot shotgun. OR.............. if the shotgun isnt your thing, what about a USED .300 Win Mag, .30-06, .308 bolt action rifle?? a few sub caliber inserts fro potting small game, and the full house premium hunting ammo for taking care of business? the AR-7 is a good foraging tool, reliable, easy to use, although some folks for some reason dont seem to be able to put one together without some instruction.. wich never ceases to amaze me. ive got an AR-7 Industries AR-7 and im happy with it.. henry currently produces one as well right now, shamelessly marketed as the "Henry Survival Rifle" ... just a pot hunters rig, no more. the Savage model 24 is another good choice thats been mentioned, BUT they aint a light rifle, and they are single shot respective of rifle or shotgun, BUT they are a VERY good rifle. ive talked to quite a few folks who own them and they love them. the Springfield M6 Scout rifle that was mentioned is another good foraging rifle. they have a new version that is chambereed .22lr or .22 Hornet over .45LC/.410 with screw in choke tubes... available in S.S, of course. prety much a good small game forager, no more no less, with teh ability to take deer sized game. i question its bear repelant properties though. i dont want to sound like im pimping anyone off to another forum, and i dont want to sound like i have ANY doubts as to the knowledge of the extremely knowledgable members of this forum, but if youd like to talk to some survival oriented people about this subject, i can suggest 2 forums on EZBoards. Survival Oriented as in Wilderness type survival. first is Hoods Woods, ran by Ron and karen Hood. very good people, they produce a video series to teach people wilderness survival. they know their stuff! plain and simple. the link is: http://pub1.ezboard.com/bhoodlums the other is Plainsmans Cabin, its ran by a gent whos name of course is Plainsman. a good guy with a forum that deals with subjects ranging from wilderness survival to other sorts of survival. the link is: http://pub35.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin.html? the first place id go to would be Hoods Woods being that this would be primarily a wilderness survival thing, and then Plainsmans cabin. if youd like, tell them i sent you... theyll treat you well at both places as you are though. hope this helps, Ray in California p.s. im known as CaliCollector on those forums. __________________ "beware the man with one gun, chances are he knows how to use it!"

06-02-2003, 01:48 AM	#11
wuzzagrunt V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 369	Up here... ...or down here (depending on your perspective) in the Northeast the weapon of choice for nutritional sustenance would be a book of coupons from a Denny's resturant. There's hardly anyplace you could go down that's not within a few hours walk of a sit-down eatery. A pistol would be handy to deal with (two-legged) predators. For an Alaskan bush pilot, the equation changes. There are lots of ways to snare small game without a gun. With a little ingenuity, you could feed yourself like a king without firing a shot. Defense against bears would be utmost on my mind. That means a repeater with some real energy. For bears, a 12 gauge pump gun is pretty effective and the price is right (about $300 used) They are not take-down in any meaningful sense but you can get one with a folding stock--so I guess that qualifies. The Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70 or .450 Marlin are very handy and under $500.00. Wild West Guns makes a take-down Marlin Guide Gun in .450 that is the bees knees. They are way expensive, though. Remington makes a nice short action magnum based on the old Model 600 in .350 Rem. Mag. That also is a bit more than you wanted to spend but still a spiffy little rifle. Just the ticket for negotiating real estate deals with big bears. I'd say: get a used Remington 870 slug gun and carry slugs for bears, 000 buck for two legged vermin and a couple of shells loaded with #6 shot for bagging grouse and ptarmagin. For survival purposes, you have my permission to bushwhack 'em on the ground. Last edited by wuzzagrunt; 06-02-2003 at 01:54 AM..

06-02-2003, 02:06 PM	#12
Slimslam V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 124	AR-7 v Henry? calicollector, Please elaborate from your experience as to the better value/choice between the Survival Arms AR7 v. the Henry US Survival 22 LR, ie., durability, reliability, etc. The price appears to similar. I appreciate your help. Thanks. SS __________________ All Rights Reserved c. 1791

06-03-2003, 04:19 PM	#13
Logansdad V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alabama's Gulf Coast Posts: 222	I was born and raised in Alaska...I wouldn't recommend a .22lr..I'd be more inclined towards a Remington 870 Marine Magnum or a stainless Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum with a peep sight __________________ "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Jesus, Luke 22:36 "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it..

06-03-2003, 07:38 PM	#14
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	From one Scot to another, Welcome, Scotticism. Hope you will join us frequently. I would buy into the Marlin 1894 .44 mag. I have one and love it! __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

06-05-2003, 02:37 AM	#15
calicollector Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: california Posts: 30	well lets see SlimSlam, i own a AR-7 Industries Ar-7 and am happy with it. i bought it over a henry for a couple reasons. one id heard of folks having probs with henry's and i figured the AR-7 built from the original plans and improved would be better. not really a trial and error purchase. Henry kind of pi$$es me off with their shameless name of "the HENRY Survival Rifle" like THEY designed and invented it instead of Eugene Stoner. so me being the irritable kinda sort i am, i dont buy shameless fallacies like that. my AR-7 has only had one real problem.. and it was kinda MY fault i guess for not paying attention. the rear sight screw backed out of my rifle and got lost, the peep site plate stayed though thankfully. AR-7 industries wanted more than i was willing to spend for a stupid screw, so a trip to Orchard Supply Hardware and about $0.65 got me a bag of a few stainless steel screws of appropriate thread size and pitch, so now i have a SS screw that i may or may not ever paint to match... memory says the rifle has been reliable and accurate, its been awhile since i shot it.. i havent been shooting for tooo long... and i can only shoot so many at once...lol. im sorry, but i doubt ill be of any help on this one.. i like my AR-7 Industries AR-7 and ive advised people before to puchase one, and those that i know who have bought one, have been happy with them. the rifles arent tack drivers, just foraging rifles. sorry i cant be of more help. Ray in California __________________ "beware the man with one gun, chances are he knows how to use it!"

06-08-2003, 01:14 PM	#16
Cow Caregiver V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 136	Survival gun for aircraft bush use These folks have all posted some good ideas. That said, I don't think the .22 is the optimum round for your purposes. If the kind of luck you're having strands you in the boonies, it will probably hand you something to solve that will need more gun. Same with the single shot items. Get yourself a good .303 British Enfield, which you can find for $75 or so, and have a gunsmith convert it to takedown for you. This will cost you another $100 or $150. Then practice with it until you get good. .303 is available if you come down on the Canadian side of the line, which is one reason I recommend it. The Number 4 Enfield with the peep sight is the better way to go, even if you have to pay a bit more for the gun. If you need a .22, get a Ruger auto pistol and keep it with the Enfield. Fine small game gun, and you don't run off all the game with the roar of the .303. Now, there's my two cents worth. __________________ Freedom comes dear. Don't let anybody steal yours.... Last edited by Cow Caregiver; 06-08-2003 at 01:15 PM..

06-08-2003, 05:45 PM	#17
Logansdad V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alabama's Gulf Coast Posts: 222	If I had to have an AR-7 I'd take the Henry before I'd take any others... __________________ "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Jesus, Luke 22:36 "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it..

07-09-2003, 06:19 PM	#18
the major Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WYOMING, USA!! Posts: 14	I use a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 with Williams Peep Sight, will work great on anything. __________________ SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI!!

08-26-2003, 05:20 PM	#20
Tony Mig Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Sorprano State Posts: 716	I'm surprised nobody has mentioned an SKS with a folding stock. You need something that breaks down to fit into a small plane, something with some knockdown power, something with a little bit of accuracy....and the Yugo models come with thier own survival knife attacked to the barrel.... 7.62 X 39mm will probably stop a bear better than a .223 (5.56mm) round. The SKS comes with a fixed 10 round magazine so there's no dickering around with incerting a mag, just push a stripper clip full into the mag, push the top round down while closing the bolt so you're not bouncing around with a loaded chamber, when the rifle is needed, just pull back the bolt and let it go, and you're ready for anything that comes your way.... The best part is.... SKS.....$139.00 to $169.00 Folding stock.....$80.00 to $100.00 Ammo......dirt cheap........ __________________ "I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know." New Jersey Politician's oath of office O /\ (( -------------v- Last edited by Tony Mig; 08-26-2003 at 05:22 PM..

08-27-2003, 01:34 AM	#21
Hydra Shok Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chasing my Seven Year Old Posts: 724	I thought I was going to be the only one to suggest an SKS till I saw Tony's reply. The SKS is affordable, accurate, easy to clean and maintain, ammo is plentiful and dirt cheap, parts are easy to come by, and plenty of aftermarket pretties to dress one up. Check out www.sksman.com to see some things you can get for them. I ordered a receiver from D.C. Engineering that allowed me to put a 3x9x40 scope on the top and still alllowed me to use the iron sights as well. I also got a muzzle brake from them too. My original wood stock is gone, replaced by a folding stock (pre ban) and I also have a 30 round magazine, that I rarely use but it looks cool and is functional. If I was going to be tromping around in the Alaskan wilderness, where you could become part of the food chain, I wouldn't hesitate to take a SKS with me, and maybe a large caliber magnum revolver. Here is a link for the scopes at D.C. Engineering http://www.rifletech.com/2direct.htm They also have stuff for AR's and AK's too, just check out the site. __________________ If you can't impress them with intelligence, baffle them with BS American by birth, Southern by the grace of God Do unto others before they do unto you "Most importantly, when the time comes to pull the trigger, shoot to kill." ~ Robert H. Boatman Glock 17, 19, 26 Kel Tec 3AT Last edited by Hydra Shok; 08-27-2003 at 01:42 AM..

08-28-2003, 04:49 PM	#22
FN_Project90 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 803	The thing about those survival rifle to me is usually if you are put into a survival situation and you have one, its merely an extended hunt or I am just cynical. Like I just happen to carry that rifle on planes with me in case it goes down in a remote swamp and I am the only survivor, or something like that. __________________ Things n' Stuff

02-23-2004, 09:55 AM	#23
suryevor Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	The AR 15 223 is the way to go but mostly because of the .22 lr conversion unit you can get for it ($150, do a yahoo search for Jonathan Arthur Ciener Firearms). I do not believe in having lots of specialized guns. I believe in being truly skilled with the very few guns that a man can always carry. The rifle has to be capable of extreme rapidfire, in case you have to fight several men at once. That leaves out the bolt actions. It needs to be able to penetrate light cover, like a vehicle, and Kevlar concealed armor, which is one of the reasons that the shotgun sucks. It needs to take the GI rifle rd and the .22lr as well, both for training at snapshooting, and for quiet foraging of small game, birds, etc. You can build an AR without Big Brother knowing anything about it, by starting with the KT Ordnance 80% finished lower receiver. It is $160, no serial number, legal and easy to "finish", and the rest of the parts run about $450, or $500 if you want the CAR15 version. The .22 unit costs no more than does the 10-22 Ruger, and it's a much better training device. It weighs less than 1 lb and stows in the leg pocket of your cammies. It's perfectly legal to use any name you wish, as long as no harm comes to anyone, nor any crime is committed by so doing. For an extra $20, UPS will guarantee" next day" delivery to any place you name. The Driver only wants a signature, not your ID. I recommend doing the same thing for the parts kit. The KT lower has the hole locations already marked, and the tower for the buttstock extention is already threaded. There is thus no need of $300 worth of drill jig, tap, huge drill bit, etc. Use that drill bit in the threaded portion of the jig, as it's designed for, and you ruin the threads in the jig, so it's unusable more than 1-2 times. So you will never be able to sell it.

02-23-2004, 10:02 AM	#24
suryevor Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	I see no reason to bother owning both a "foot slogger's" longarm, and guns that are so bulky and heavy (and same goes for their ammo) that you have to have a vehicle in order to lug them around. I also see no reason to take 4x as long for the second shot as need be ( which is what you lock yourself into when you choose a bolt action over an auto-rifle) Nor do I see any reason to settle for just a pistol, or just a .22 rifle, out of concerns for concealability and weight-bulk. You can have a CAR-15 with a folding stock and have it weigh only 4 lbs, if you start with the CarBon 15 "pistol" and add the stock, as well as either the ZM or Kurt Kustom AK type upper receiver group. These dont require the buffer in the buttstock, you see. You have to add a "removable" carrying handle, in order to get decent rifle sights, and then LocTite the handle onto the grooves. A regular CAR (with either the "skinny" barrel or a fluted one) weighs 6 lbs, which is 2-3 lbs less than an SKS or a 308 auto rifle. The 223 ammo weighs about half as much as the .30 ammo, as do the magazines. The 223, using good handloads or Black Hills ammo, with Nosler Partition sp';s, will take deer just fine, with careful shots at the ribs, from the side, to 150 yds, and do the same with good FMJ ammo, to 75 yds. It will also brain larger animals just fine, to 50 yds or so (assuming a scope, an unaware animal, and a braced firing position).

02-23-2004, 10:05 AM	#25
suryevor Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Shotshells are 10 to the lb, 12 gauge and are an expensive, noisy way to take small game. The .22 rifle, or better yet, the AR-15 and .22 conversion, are a far better answer for small game, and the 223 autorifle is a far better combat gun than is the 12 gauge, because of range, penetration, rapidfire, precison, and mag-capacity issues. Trigger jobs, ambi safeties, luminous sights, are all "drop in " modifications to the AR, and expensive, custom gunsmithing for nearly any other lonarm, especially shotguns.