P-51 & P-38 - The Firearms Forum

Marlin T · 06-19-2007, 04:10 PM

http://www.airshowbuzz.com/forums/in...&req=sc&cat=39

polishshooter · 06-19-2007, 08:39 PM

GREAT pics Marlin...where was the show?

We have one here in Indy called the Mt.Comfort Air Show that is rated as one of the best in the states every year, but that ain't indy underneath I don't think....

I've seen these guys perform before....plus lots of times they fly formation with a B-25, or have mock dogfights with some AT-6s done up to look like Zeros....

Sackett · 06-20-2007, 10:26 AM

My two favorite U.S. fighters. Thanks for the pics.

bunnyhunter12 · 06-20-2007, 01:35 PM

Do they do mock dogfights against each other? The reason I ask is that it almost looks like they have "kills" marked on their port side drop tanks.

Want the best of both worlds? Here's the f-82 Twin Mustang.

armedandsafe · 06-20-2007, 02:06 PM

During the last few month of WWII, I saw a P38 at the local airport, which was a base used by the USAF and Army for "security storage." The machine gun compartments had been replaced with cockpits and the pilots cockpit had been guttted and filled with camera gear. I've never been able to find any documentation on this, including queries through the San Diego Museum.

Pops

polishshooter · 06-21-2007, 09:05 PM

Armed, the P-38 was used pretty extensively as a high altitude fast photo-recon plane in WWII, starting as early as late 1942....mostly in Europe.

Early ones I believe were just field conversions of early model Lightnings, with all the armament removed, but by 1943 they were making purpose built ones called F-4s (I think, if I remember right....) with no armament, so they flew even faster, and they were painted all over a light almost powder blue for camoflage. They usually flew solo missions, high and fast, taking pre-and post strike photos before and after every heavy bombing raid

Later in the war German interceptors mainly FWs managed to catch them pretty regularly and they started taking fairly heavy casualties, so on the later ones they reinstalled two .50s to give them a chance to fight back....and some got kills as well as pictures....

Here's a pict of one...they called them "Photo-Joes"

http://p38assn.org/images/p38s/photo-joe.jpg

They also tried an experiment turning P-38s into "Bomber Leaders" where they removed the armament and built a "glass nose" for a bombardier, who was supposed to signal when the heavy bomber formation following was to drop, but they weren't very successful and withdrawn, because a lead bomber could do it just as well AND drop it's own bombs....but I wonder if what you saw at the end of WWII was one of those that was refitted with camera equipment instead....

armedandsafe · 06-22-2007, 02:53 PM

The point is that I've never seen another P-38 with the cockpit faired over and a pilot bubble installed on top of each engine nacelle. That was what caught my curiosity. Enough so that I asked someone at the airport about it and got chased out and the hole in the fence at the back repaired.

FYI: in 1945 I was 6 years old. Didn't take much fence-hole to let me in.

Pops

06-19-2007, 04:10 PM	#1
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	P-51 & P-38 http://www.airshowbuzz.com/forums/in...&req=sc&cat=39 __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<< -->

06-19-2007, 08:39 PM	#2
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: P-51 & P-38 GREAT pics Marlin...where was the show? We have one here in Indy called the Mt.Comfort Air Show that is rated as one of the best in the states every year, but that ain't indy underneath I don't think.... I've seen these guys perform before....plus lots of times they fly formation with a B-25, or have mock dogfights with some AT-6s done up to look like Zeros.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

06-20-2007, 10:26 AM	#3
Sackett V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: SW Mississippi Posts: 266	Re: P-51 & P-38 My two favorite U.S. fighters. Thanks for the pics. __________________ "I'm not someone to be as good as. I'm someone to be better than."

06-20-2007, 01:35 PM	#4
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: P-51 & P-38 Do they do mock dogfights against each other? The reason I ask is that it almost looks like they have "kills" marked on their port side drop tanks. Want the best of both worlds? Here's the f-82 Twin Mustang. Attached Images __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

06-20-2007, 02:06 PM	#5
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: P-51 & P-38 During the last few month of WWII, I saw a P38 at the local airport, which was a base used by the USAF and Army for "security storage." The machine gun compartments had been replaced with cockpits and the pilots cockpit had been guttted and filled with camera gear. I've never been able to find any documentation on this, including queries through the San Diego Museum. Pops

06-21-2007, 09:05 PM	#6
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: P-51 & P-38 Armed, the P-38 was used pretty extensively as a high altitude fast photo-recon plane in WWII, starting as early as late 1942....mostly in Europe. Early ones I believe were just field conversions of early model Lightnings, with all the armament removed, but by 1943 they were making purpose built ones called F-4s (I think, if I remember right....) with no armament, so they flew even faster, and they were painted all over a light almost powder blue for camoflage. They usually flew solo missions, high and fast, taking pre-and post strike photos before and after every heavy bombing raid Later in the war German interceptors mainly FWs managed to catch them pretty regularly and they started taking fairly heavy casualties, so on the later ones they reinstalled two .50s to give them a chance to fight back....and some got kills as well as pictures.... Here's a pict of one...they called them "Photo-Joes" http://p38assn.org/images/p38s/photo-joe.jpg They also tried an experiment turning P-38s into "Bomber Leaders" where they removed the armament and built a "glass nose" for a bombardier, who was supposed to signal when the heavy bomber formation following was to drop, but they weren't very successful and withdrawn, because a lead bomber could do it just as well AND drop it's own bombs....but I wonder if what you saw at the end of WWII was one of those that was refitted with camera equipment instead.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 06-21-2007 at 09:13 PM..

06-22-2007, 02:53 PM	#7
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: P-51 & P-38 The point is that I've never seen another P-38 with the cockpit faired over and a pilot bubble installed on top of each engine nacelle. That was what caught my curiosity. Enough so that I asked someone at the airport about it and got chased out and the hole in the fence at the back repaired. FYI: in 1945 I was 6 years old. Didn't take much fence-hole to let me in. Pops