Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. - The Firearms Forum

Scamp123 · 06-06-2012, 08:58 PM

I have serial no. 844032. It was passed to me from my father-n-law. His grandfather gave it to him. They are from Pikeville, Ky. I have a picture with his grandfather and the gun. Caption reads used by Anse Hatfield, in the feud. R.T. Smith, in the photo, was married to Vicie, a relative of Frank Phillips. I understand Frank would stay at Vicie and R.T.'s house some. I recently got the photo and had never paid it much thought. On the biography channel, documentary, not the Cosner movie. Anse is holding a model 1894. Histoy wise, does this gun become more valuable? I am trying to find out, thru my wife's family, how it would have passed from Anse to Frank Phillips. I would not be interested in selling, plan to keep it in the family. Unless I could make a dent in my kids college that is.

H-D · 06-06-2012, 09:24 PM

I wonder how Anse used an 1894 Winchester manufactured in 1919 before the feud ended in 1891 ? He would have been 79 when that gun was manufactured , he died at 81.

Scamp123 · 06-06-2012, 09:34 PM

I was surprised to see the picture on Anse with an 1894 on his shoulder. I decided to find out from the family, how it came into their hands. Would of gun owned by Frank or Anse change the value? Hard to prove, I'm sure?

RJay · 06-06-2012, 11:51 PM

With out documented , solid proof, irrefutable, it is just a Model 94 and would be valued as such. Just for information, has nothing to do with your rifle, over the years I have seen a number of Hatfield and McCoy guns, all of which were " I was told ". If all of these guns were original, between the two familiys , they would have had enought guns to fight WWII

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 05:35 AM

Thats funny, Thanks for your info.

terryu1 · 06-07-2012, 07:16 AM

They are correct. Proving it is everything and has to be "air tight" Only way to prove a feud gun would be to find a decent picture of one of them holding the gun with some kind of damage or other markings that can be seen on the picture and current gun. Other than that, it is hard enough to document the truth about what started the feud let alone proving actual guns used etc. Nice gun though!!

Hawg · 06-07-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scamp123

Thats funny, Thanks for your info.

Not funny. Anybody can say anything they want to about a gun. You've already been sold a bill of goods about it being used in the feud. The facts make it impossible. That alone makes it that much more doubtful Anse ever laid eyes on it, much less owned it. Irrefutable proof has to be provided or it's just another 94.

Hawg · 06-07-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scamp123

I have serial no. 844032. On the biography channel, documentary, not the Cosner movie. Anse is holding a model 1894.

I believe this is the pic you're referring to. The rifle is an 1873 Winchester.

Bert H. · 06-07-2012, 10:43 AM

For what it is worth (and to set the record straight), Winchester Model 1894 serial number 844032 was manufactured in March of 1917.

Bert

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 05:10 PM

Not this picture. There is one of Anse only, he has a model 1894 across his shoulder, goes behind his head and over other shoulder. The picture had a yellow tint. He looks old in the photo, I would be afraid to guess, I don't know his age in 1894... for that matter. I'm sure the gun came from Frank Phillips, couldn't prove it no doubt. My wife remembers her great grand father well, he lived to be 103. Not saying this gun is the one in the picture on tv, just a model 1894. My question has been answered, it just got me interested. I'm trying to find out from the family, why coming from Frank Phillips they say it belonged to Anse. That wouldn't make any sense would it?

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 05:16 PM

Thanks for the date Bert, I gained two years, earlier that is.

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 05:22 PM

wasn't sold anything, other than whatever the newspaper cost my aunt and everyone else who read it. The picture in the paper,(not saying true.. says Owned by Anse used in the feud). The gun was a gift, nothing purchased there either.
Thanks

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 05:56 PM

Hawg, the photo is at 1 hr 17 min. 42 seconds into the show.(Greatest Feud:Hatfields &McCoys). The picture you posted was from the same show? Sorry I can't move it from my tv dvr to here. Do you think that is a 1894 he is holding? The bolster at the end of the fore stock, the band on the magazine out a few inches from the muzzle? I'm sorry if my terminology for these pieces is wrong. I'll see if I can find that picture on line so you can look easily.

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 06:22 PM

Hawg I think the photo I am looking at is an 1873 also. Looks like a slope right above and just forward of the trigger. Photo is too washed out to see the hammer.

Hawg · 06-07-2012, 06:34 PM

1873 Winchester.

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 07:39 PM

Bad Frank Phillips died young. Didn't see the turn of the century. If Anse ever laid eyes on it, didn't come thru him. I can only trace the gun to great grandfather so far.(photo)
A cool old guy, tracking down people who talked to him personally about it now. Just curious to get to the bottom of it, obviously the gun isn't going anywhere. I'll try to hand it down with some documented info.
Thanks for your time!

Rocketman1 · 06-07-2012, 07:55 PM

This the picture?

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 08:45 PM

Yes Rocketman, the picture on the left was cropped even further on the bio. Can see something in his right hand. Right picture for sure, you nailed it... that is a 1873 he is holding?

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 09:29 PM

The man on Anse's left I recognize, he died in the feud, so would be pre-model 1894. Great picture! You guys are good!

RJay · 06-07-2012, 09:43 PM

Zooming it up, it looks as if he is holding a holstered revolver, you can see the handle to the rear of his hand. , the white circle background, don't have the foggiest.

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 09:51 PM

Where did you find the whole picture? I see the "property of Wv."

H-D · 06-07-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert H.

For what it is worth (and to set the record straight), Winchester Model 1894 serial number 844032 was manufactured in March of 1917.

Bert

glad to know down to the month! I got the 1919 from proofhouse.com the cody museum says 1917 and the savage99 list says 1919

Hawg · 06-07-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJay

Zooming it up, it looks as if he is holding a holstered revolver, you can see the handle to the rear of his hand. , the white circle background, don't have the foggiest.

He's holding a trap in his right hand. That's probably the same 73 he's holding in the pic I posted.

Scamp123 · 06-07-2012, 10:01 PM

I want to thank everyone sincerly for their info, especially the ones who were cordial enough to realize I was new. I am sure it is irritating, I appreciate it.

Hawg · 06-07-2012, 10:04 PM

Nah it wasn't irritating. You did sound convinced at first tho.

06-06-2012, 08:58 PM	#1
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. I have serial no. 844032. It was passed to me from my father-n-law. His grandfather gave it to him. They are from Pikeville, Ky. I have a picture with his grandfather and the gun. Caption reads used by Anse Hatfield, in the feud. R.T. Smith, in the photo, was married to Vicie, a relative of Frank Phillips. I understand Frank would stay at Vicie and R.T.'s house some. I recently got the photo and had never paid it much thought. On the biography channel, documentary, not the Cosner movie. Anse is holding a model 1894. Histoy wise, does this gun become more valuable? I am trying to find out, thru my wife's family, how it would have passed from Anse to Frank Phillips. I would not be interested in selling, plan to keep it in the family. Unless I could make a dent in my kids college that is. -->

06-06-2012, 09:24 PM	#2
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. I wonder how Anse used an 1894 Winchester manufactured in 1919 before the feud ended in 1891 ? He would have been 79 when that gun was manufactured , he died at 81. __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

06-06-2012, 09:34 PM	#3
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. I was surprised to see the picture on Anse with an 1894 on his shoulder. I decided to find out from the family, how it came into their hands. Would of gun owned by Frank or Anse change the value? Hard to prove, I'm sure?

06-06-2012, 11:51 PM	#4
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. With out documented , solid proof, irrefutable, it is just a Model 94 and would be valued as such. Just for information, has nothing to do with your rifle, over the years I have seen a number of Hatfield and McCoy guns, all of which were " I was told ". If all of these guns were original, between the two familiys , they would have had enought guns to fight WWII __________________ RonJames

06-07-2012, 05:35 AM	#5
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Thats funny, Thanks for your info.

06-07-2012, 07:16 AM	#6
terryu1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NE Pennsylvania Contributor Posts: 1,243	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. They are correct. Proving it is everything and has to be "air tight" Only way to prove a feud gun would be to find a decent picture of one of them holding the gun with some kind of damage or other markings that can be seen on the picture and current gun. Other than that, it is hard enough to document the truth about what started the feud let alone proving actual guns used etc. Nice gun though!! __________________ ARMED INFIDEL

06-07-2012, 10:43 AM	#9
Bert H. V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington State (Puget Sound Region) Posts: 409	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. For what it is worth (and to set the record straight), Winchester Model 1894 serial number 844032 was manufactured in March of 1917. Bert __________________ Real Men own and shoot a Winchester SINGLE-SHOT! Last edited by Bert H.; 06-07-2012 at 10:44 AM..

06-07-2012, 05:10 PM	#10
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Not this picture. There is one of Anse only, he has a model 1894 across his shoulder, goes behind his head and over other shoulder. The picture had a yellow tint. He looks old in the photo, I would be afraid to guess, I don't know his age in 1894... for that matter. I'm sure the gun came from Frank Phillips, couldn't prove it no doubt. My wife remembers her great grand father well, he lived to be 103. Not saying this gun is the one in the picture on tv, just a model 1894. My question has been answered, it just got me interested. I'm trying to find out from the family, why coming from Frank Phillips they say it belonged to Anse. That wouldn't make any sense would it?

06-07-2012, 05:16 PM	#11
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Thanks for the date Bert, I gained two years, earlier that is.

06-07-2012, 05:22 PM	#12
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. wasn't sold anything, other than whatever the newspaper cost my aunt and everyone else who read it. The picture in the paper,(not saying true.. says Owned by Anse used in the feud). The gun was a gift, nothing purchased there either. Thanks

06-07-2012, 05:56 PM	#13
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Hawg, the photo is at 1 hr 17 min. 42 seconds into the show.(Greatest Feud:Hatfields &McCoys). The picture you posted was from the same show? Sorry I can't move it from my tv dvr to here. Do you think that is a 1894 he is holding? The bolster at the end of the fore stock, the band on the magazine out a few inches from the muzzle? I'm sorry if my terminology for these pieces is wrong. I'll see if I can find that picture on line so you can look easily.

06-07-2012, 06:22 PM	#14
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Hawg I think the photo I am looking at is an 1873 also. Looks like a slope right above and just forward of the trigger. Photo is too washed out to see the hammer.

06-07-2012, 06:34 PM	#15
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,554	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. 1873 Winchester.

06-07-2012, 07:39 PM	#16
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Bad Frank Phillips died young. Didn't see the turn of the century. If Anse ever laid eyes on it, didn't come thru him. I can only trace the gun to great grandfather so far.(photo) A cool old guy, tracking down people who talked to him personally about it now. Just curious to get to the bottom of it, obviously the gun isn't going anywhere. I'll try to hand it down with some documented info. Thanks for your time!

06-07-2012, 07:55 PM	#17
Rocketman1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,097	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. This the picture? Attached Images __________________ There is no such thing as a gun accident. Irresponsible gun owners cause so-called gun accidents.

06-07-2012, 08:45 PM	#18
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Yes Rocketman, the picture on the left was cropped even further on the bio. Can see something in his right hand. Right picture for sure, you nailed it... that is a 1873 he is holding?

06-07-2012, 09:29 PM	#19
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. The man on Anse's left I recognize, he died in the feud, so would be pre-model 1894. Great picture! You guys are good!

06-07-2012, 09:43 PM	#20
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Zooming it up, it looks as if he is holding a holstered revolver, you can see the handle to the rear of his hand. , the white circle background, don't have the foggiest. __________________ RonJames

06-07-2012, 09:51 PM	#21
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Where did you find the whole picture? I see the "property of Wv."

06-07-2012, 10:01 PM	#24
Scamp123 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. I want to thank everyone sincerly for their info, especially the ones who were cordial enough to realize I was new. I am sure it is irritating, I appreciate it.

06-07-2012, 10:04 PM	#25
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,554	Re: Hatfield McCoy 1894 W.C.F. Nah it wasn't irritating. You did sound convinced at first tho.