.22 Short, Long & Long Rifle Question

[nitram]

Hello All:

My question is this:

Do any manufacturers make a .22 rifle today that will interchangeably fire .22 shorts, longs and long rifle cartridges?

If so would you please advise who they are & the model.

Thanks,
Nitram

[pinecone70]

My Marlin 39A will fire all the cartridges. I think most of the tube-fed varieties will, not positive though.

Welcome to the forum too!

[Brian48]

Originally Posted by pinecone70

My Marlin 39A will fire all the cartridges. I think most of the tube-fed varieties will, not positive though.

Welcome to the forum too!

That, and probably every single-shot bolt action in existence. That what I used to love about my old Stevens .22 bolt action. Could shoot everything from .22 Short CBs to CCI Stingers.

[CampingJosh]

First off, welcome to TFF!

Remington makes both an autoloader, the Model 552, and a pump-action, the Model 572.

Also, the lever and pump action guns from Henry will handle all three interchangeably.

I'm sure others will chime in with more quite soon.

[CampingJosh]

Oh, I almost forgot. Marlin makes one, the Model 981T, that is a bolt action. So now you've got auto, lever, bolt, and pump actions to choose from.

[LDBennett]

While it sounds neat to be able to shoot shorts, longs and long rifles, shorts and longs are rarely available. Shorts have been relegated to Olympic style Match shooting so most of it is expensive if you can even find it. In nearly 25 years of really active shooting, I have yet to see any dealer stock 22 longs. I don't even know if they are made today (??).

Over 50 years ago these three (shorts, longs and long rifles) were stocked everywhere but as time has gone on it has come down to long rifle in Standard, High, and Hyper velocity with shorts for Olympic Match guns.

All long rifle ammo fits and fires in most new guns today but some guns (22 semi-auto match pistols) should never use anything but long rifle Std Vel ammo to assure longevity of the gun. The exception of course is the Olympic Match guns designed to shoot shorts only.

So it seems that having the capability to shoot short, long, and long rifle ammo has dubious value to most of us!

LDBennett

[oscarmayer]

i haven't seen a box of longs for well over 15 years but in my neck of the woods there is plenty of 22 short. but not at the big box stores ie walmart i've only seen it in a few of the local gun shops

[Islandboy]

long rifle in Standard, High, and Hyper velocity

So where would Winchester wildcats fit in here?
Give examples of each please.
I'm assuming all are LR?
Esp. give examples of Hyper velocity.

[LDBennett]

Islandboy:

"So where would Winchester wildcats fit in here?"

The Winchester web site says they are High Velocity loads.

"Give examples of each please."

I am no 22 ammo expert but

Standard Velocity: CCI STD VEL

High Velocity: CCI blazer

Hyper velocity: CCI Stingers

"I'm assuming all are LR?"

Yes!

"Esp. give examples of Hyper velocity."

CCI Stingers
Remington Viper
Federal Game Shock
Remington Yellow Jacket

Every box of rimfire ammo will say somewhere on it whether it is STD or HIGH or HYPER VEL Long Rifle ammo.

There is infinite info on the internet on this subject of the various long rifle load levels!

LDBennett

[Islandboy]

Thank you sir, most helpfull, everytime I get into a gunstore with ammo on the shelves I start hyperventilating after 15 20 min.
I now have a focus point for that Cal.

[Alpo]

Standard Velocity shells run about 1000 fps. Since the speed of sound is 1150 (or thereabouts), these are subsonic. Because breaking the sound barrier can cause bullets to wiggle slightly, which can make them slightly less accurate, target 22s are subsonic. So Standard Velocity ammo is marked either Standard Velocity, or Subsonic, or Target Velocity. Expect to pay more for this than for High Velocity shells. The bullet nose has a rounded profile.

High Velocity shells run about 1250 fps. This is the bread and butter of the 22 LR line. Most 22 shells are High Velocity. If you just go to your friendly gun store to buy a box of 22s, you will get High Velocity. Winchester Wildcats are High Velocity (although, in my opinion, they are garbage. Not as bad as Remington 22s, but still garbage). All the jacketed 22s (it's really a copper wash, not a jacket, but it looks jacketed) are High Velocity. Of all the 22s out there, these are going to be the cheapest, because they make more of these than any other type. The bullet nose has a rounded profile.

Hyper Velocity runs faster than 1400 fps. This is normally accomplished by decreasing the weight of the bullet. Stingers (the first Hyper Velocity) not only lowered the weight, but since that made for a shortened bullet, they increased the length of the case slightly, to allow more powder to be used. Most (if not all) of the Hyper Velocity shells are hollow points. Most have a pointed nose profile, with a flat tip. Except for the true "target ammo", these are the most expensive 22 LRs.

[bluesea112]

I shoot them all in my marlin and higgins bolt action rifles. I also have a .22 revolver that shoots them all just fine.
I have fired all of them except shorts through my 10/22. I'm not saying it won't shoot shorts...I have just never tried them in it.

[Bobitis]

Try not to get all bunched up about ammo 'nomenclature'.
There are no rules, so you can call it whatever you want. And everyone does.
The problem is marketing to the senses of the consumer vs what is really accurate. People think faster is better. That's why .22 ammo is marketed as super dooper, hyper diaper, slicker than snot, etc.....
You basically have 2 choices.
Hypersonic or subsonic. Faster than sound or not.
A .22 bullet doesn't have the mass to shoot accurately at hypersonic velocities. Once the bullet breaks the sound barrier, all heck breaks loose, and all accuracy is lost in the process.
Let speed be the rule.

ALL competition benchrest shooters use subsonic ammo. It's inherently far more accurate. AND... It's a lot more expensive.
Why? It's made by the same company as the souperdooper stuff, yet has less powder.

Also keep in mind that no rimfire shoots the same ammo the same.
What shoots well for me may very well suck in your firearm.

Rimfires are unique in their abilities.
It's up to you to determine what works best for you.

[oldogy]

I do not claim to be an expert on matters as to what gun will fire what type ammo but my guess is the short may not have the energy to cycle some semi automatic actions. Any action that does not require the energy to cycle the action would probably work with shorts. I've never tried anything but long rifles in my semi automatic or autoloaders but the shorts work fine in my pump, bolts and revolvers.
oldogy

[LDBennett]

Several manufactures have made semi-auto hand guns through the years to shoot shorts. The designs often use light weight (low mass) slides with light recoil springs to work at all. Modern semi-auto handguns or rifles marked for 22 LR will not shoot shorts except single fire because the mechanism is designed for the 22LR cartridges based on the power of the cartridge to operate the mechanism.

Any gun that is manually operated (bolts, pumps, levers) MAY be able to shoot shorts but the loading mechanism must be made to handle their shorter length. Not all modern guns are.

LDBennett

[ponycar17]

LDBennett, the big advantage to a gun that will fire all 3 is the availability of CB rounds. CCI CB long rounds and short rounds are quite common in my area. They won't function in semi-autos so you're out of luck if one wants a semi-auto to fire all 3. The advantage to CB shorts is that they have the same bullet velocity and weight but they're cheaper by $1 per box than the longs. The only CB-type rounds that are made in .22LR length are the new Remington CBee's. I did a review on them in the .22 Rimfire forum and the post was then moved to the Ammo and Reloading forum where rimfire guys don't usually frequent, and so the post disappeared pretty quickly. . Here's the link to the review. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...remington+CBee They're 33 Gr. hollow-points with pre-stressed expansion points and they travel out the muzzle at 740 FPS. The Remingtons are somewhat louder than the 29 Gr. CCI round nose ammo which travels at only 710 FPS.

So, for CB shooting there's a good advantage to being able to find a gun that will shoot all three. Otherwise, I agree that there's little point in pursuing such a gun...

[jwmtx]

Marlin cautions strongly not to use Hi-Volocity in one of their rifles. It's the Model 39 made in the late 20's and early 30's. They may/will break the bolt. They re-engineered the bolt in 1938 I think. There may be a couple of more that we don't know about.
James

[TRAP55]

I have a Rem model 4 rolling block stamped .22 Short and Long. The only .22 Longs available are the CB Longs that are anemic in comparison with high velocity Shorts.
The main difference between a Long and Long Rifle is the bullet weight and size.
Can standard velocity .22LR be used in a .22 Long chambered rifle?
Is there less freebore, thus increasing chamber pressures?
Is the twist rate different for the lighter bullets of the Long?