.30 cal tracers - The Firearms Forum

DixieLandMan · 10-25-2011, 09:42 AM

Does anyone have data on reloading these? I weighed them and they are around 145 grains. They will be shot in an M-1 Garand. Any help would be appreciated.

jack404 · 10-25-2011, 09:59 AM

30/06 load? thats pretty much spot on , your standard projectile for that is 150 grain \180, 3-5 second burn if i remember right

52.8 grains of IMR 4350 should give that 2600 fps (145 grain )

Jim Hauff · 10-25-2011, 10:24 AM

Make sure that they are "ignite out of the barrel" tracers - especially in a Garand.

Jim K · 10-25-2011, 10:49 AM

Also, please, fire those tracer bullets in a safe area; they can set fires in dry leaves or grass.

Jim

DixieLandMan · 10-25-2011, 11:21 AM

Thank you for all of your help. Yes, I will make sure that when I shoot them, it is ok to shoot. Most likely will shoot some but not a lot of them this winter.

jim brady · 10-25-2011, 11:25 AM

I think I have exactly what you are asking for. This is from TM 43-0001-27 dated June 1981 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets - Small Caliber Ammunition - FSC 1305.

On page 5-3, the "Cartridge, Caliber .30, Tracer, M1" Lists a charge of 50 grains of IMR 4895. This load specifies 52,000 PSI, 2665 feet per second at 78 feet from the muzzel.

This is the Government load - not my load.

Other very experianced M1 Garand folks touch on the subject of powders. I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I've read over and over that the Garand is designed around a very limited range of powders because of their burn rate and the gas system of the Garand.

IMR 4350 is one of my favorite powders for hunting ammo in the .30-06, but I've read time and again that it is not advisable to load ammo for the Garand with it because it delivers an incorrect "pressure curve" to the operating rod.

There are lots of really great powders, especially made over the last 15-20 years that give fabulous performance in the .30-06. Just for 'grins and giggles' - and only in my humblest of opinions - I'd say to stick with the old powder types that were used to develope the rifle and not risk possible damage. But it's your rifle.

Two good points made by others here. If you shoot these, be VERY careful and mindful that tracers WILL start fires. I've seen it happen plenty. All tracers that I know of ignite from the powder charge as soon as the round is fired. The visable 'trace' is seen after the bullet has travelled out of the barrel.

JLA · 10-25-2011, 04:20 PM

That is correct info Jim. The M1 Garand is indeed designed around a certain pressure curve. The issue with shooting the garand isnt High chamber pressure or heavy bullets, it is a concern of high port pressure and high port pressure can and will bend the op rod, High port pressures are only caused by slow burning powders. The ideal burn rate for the Garand rifle is IMR4895 and its close siblings. H335 on the fast side and IMR 4064 on the slow. IMR 4350 is an excellent powder for the .30-06, but not for the Garand. The load I am using now is 46.5 gr H4895 under a 155 Hdy Amax, it produces 2600 fps. Its a little slow, but shooting it is a pleasure at its accurate. Its just stout enough to function the action reliably.

medalguy · 10-25-2011, 05:36 PM

Are these red tip(M1) or orange tip(M25)?

JLA · 10-25-2011, 05:49 PM

Nice question Medalguy.. That would make a huge difference. The M25 has a longer burning less intense burn

jim brady · 10-25-2011, 08:25 PM

For the M2 (150 grain FMJ) bullet I've found that 49.2 grains of IMR-4895 exactly duplicated WW2 arsenal loads, while 48.4 grains works very well with the M1 (173 grain FMJ) bullet.

Just for what it's worth, I pulled down some TW43 M2 rounds. The powder appeared to be IMR 4895, and it measured at 50.0 grains.

All that being said, loads were developed at the various arsenals to a certain standard, and adjustments were made to compensate for differences in batch lots of whatever powder they were loading with.

+1 on that M1 and M25 call, Medalguy. I think mostly what is available today is going to be the M25 or the M62 from the 7.62 NATO. According to my manual, the 7.62 tracers for the "Over-Head Fire Mission" have a RED tip. while the M62 standard tracers had an ORANGE tip. The ORANGE ones specify 146 grains, while the RED ones specify 149 grains.

medalguy · 10-26-2011, 12:18 AM

M2 ball load is 50.0 gr of IMR4895 pretty well accepted as THE go-to load for the 150 gr flat base bullet. Tracers can vary in the load, since they weigh less than ball, and often used powder other than IMR4895. WC852 is what I use for M25 tracer reloads, and there are several different powder lots out there. One is slow (WC852s) and the others are generally regarded as fast (WC852f) but there are some lots that are faster than other lots. Using any bulk grade powder requires a little more thought and work.

Regarding the OP's question, I have used 48.0 gr and 48.5 gr of IMR4895 with M25 tracers, and as I recall the bullets came from different sources so that accounted for the different load required to achieve the velocity I wanted, and to assure ignition of the tracer. YMMV.

I've not tried M62 tracers in 30-06 as I bought many thousands of M25 bullets when they were about 3 cents each for my machine gun.

DixieLandMan · 10-26-2011, 10:22 AM

These are the orange tipped bullets. I looked last night and I had just a little IMR 4895 so it may be a while before I load these up. I just want to load them up so that I have them when I feel like shooting them.

JLA · 10-26-2011, 04:13 PM

How many you got Dixie?

10-25-2011, 09:42 AM	#1
DixieLandMan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 603	.30 cal tracers Does anyone have data on reloading these? I weighed them and they are around 145 grains. They will be shot in an M-1 Garand. Any help would be appreciated. -->

10-25-2011, 09:59 AM	#2
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: .30 cal tracers 30/06 load? thats pretty much spot on , your standard projectile for that is 150 grain \180, 3-5 second burn if i remember right 52.8 grains of IMR 4350 should give that 2600 fps (145 grain ) Last edited by jack404; 10-25-2011 at 10:03 AM..

10-25-2011, 10:24 AM	#3
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: .30 cal tracers Make sure that they are "ignite out of the barrel" tracers - especially in a Garand. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

10-25-2011, 10:49 AM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: .30 cal tracers Also, please, fire those tracer bullets in a safe area; they can set fires in dry leaves or grass. Jim

10-25-2011, 11:21 AM	#5
DixieLandMan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 603	Re: .30 cal tracers Thank you for all of your help. Yes, I will make sure that when I shoot them, it is ok to shoot. Most likely will shoot some but not a lot of them this winter.

10-25-2011, 11:25 AM	#6
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,072	Re: .30 cal tracers I think I have exactly what you are asking for. This is from TM 43-0001-27 dated June 1981 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets - Small Caliber Ammunition - FSC 1305. On page 5-3, the "Cartridge, Caliber .30, Tracer, M1" Lists a charge of 50 grains of IMR 4895. This load specifies 52,000 PSI, 2665 feet per second at 78 feet from the muzzel. This is the Government load - not my load. Other very experianced M1 Garand folks touch on the subject of powders. I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I've read over and over that the Garand is designed around a very limited range of powders because of their burn rate and the gas system of the Garand. IMR 4350 is one of my favorite powders for hunting ammo in the .30-06, but I've read time and again that it is not advisable to load ammo for the Garand with it because it delivers an incorrect "pressure curve" to the operating rod. There are lots of really great powders, especially made over the last 15-20 years that give fabulous performance in the .30-06. Just for 'grins and giggles' - and only in my humblest of opinions - I'd say to stick with the old powder types that were used to develope the rifle and not risk possible damage. But it's your rifle. Two good points made by others here. If you shoot these, be VERY careful and mindful that tracers WILL start fires. I've seen it happen plenty. All tracers that I know of ignite from the powder charge as soon as the round is fired. The visable 'trace' is seen after the bullet has travelled out of the barrel. Last edited by jim brady; 10-25-2011 at 11:27 AM..

10-25-2011, 04:20 PM	#7
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: .30 cal tracers That is correct info Jim. The M1 Garand is indeed designed around a certain pressure curve. The issue with shooting the garand isnt High chamber pressure or heavy bullets, it is a concern of high port pressure and high port pressure can and will bend the op rod, High port pressures are only caused by slow burning powders. The ideal burn rate for the Garand rifle is IMR4895 and its close siblings. H335 on the fast side and IMR 4064 on the slow. IMR 4350 is an excellent powder for the .30-06, but not for the Garand. The load I am using now is 46.5 gr H4895 under a 155 Hdy Amax, it produces 2600 fps. Its a little slow, but shooting it is a pleasure at its accurate. Its just stout enough to function the action reliably. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 10-25-2011 at 04:22 PM..

10-25-2011, 05:36 PM	#8
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: .30 cal tracers Are these red tip(M1) or orange tip(M25)?

10-25-2011, 05:49 PM	#9
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: .30 cal tracers Nice question Medalguy.. That would make a huge difference. The M25 has a longer burning less intense burn __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 10-25-2011 at 05:55 PM..

10-25-2011, 08:25 PM	#10
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,072	Re: .30 cal tracers For the M2 (150 grain FMJ) bullet I've found that 49.2 grains of IMR-4895 exactly duplicated WW2 arsenal loads, while 48.4 grains works very well with the M1 (173 grain FMJ) bullet. Just for what it's worth, I pulled down some TW43 M2 rounds. The powder appeared to be IMR 4895, and it measured at 50.0 grains. All that being said, loads were developed at the various arsenals to a certain standard, and adjustments were made to compensate for differences in batch lots of whatever powder they were loading with. +1 on that M1 and M25 call, Medalguy. I think mostly what is available today is going to be the M25 or the M62 from the 7.62 NATO. According to my manual, the 7.62 tracers for the "Over-Head Fire Mission" have a RED tip. while the M62 standard tracers had an ORANGE tip. The ORANGE ones specify 146 grains, while the RED ones specify 149 grains.

10-26-2011, 12:18 AM	#11
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: .30 cal tracers M2 ball load is 50.0 gr of IMR4895 pretty well accepted as THE go-to load for the 150 gr flat base bullet. Tracers can vary in the load, since they weigh less than ball, and often used powder other than IMR4895. WC852 is what I use for M25 tracer reloads, and there are several different powder lots out there. One is slow (WC852s) and the others are generally regarded as fast (WC852f) but there are some lots that are faster than other lots. Using any bulk grade powder requires a little more thought and work. Regarding the OP's question, I have used 48.0 gr and 48.5 gr of IMR4895 with M25 tracers, and as I recall the bullets came from different sources so that accounted for the different load required to achieve the velocity I wanted, and to assure ignition of the tracer. YMMV. I've not tried M62 tracers in 30-06 as I bought many thousands of M25 bullets when they were about 3 cents each for my machine gun.

10-26-2011, 10:22 AM	#12
DixieLandMan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 603	Re: .30 cal tracers These are the orange tipped bullets. I looked last night and I had just a little IMR 4895 so it may be a while before I load these up. I just want to load them up so that I have them when I feel like shooting them.

10-26-2011, 04:13 PM	#13
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,305	Re: .30 cal tracers How many you got Dixie? __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!