Using Muzzle Loading Powder - The Firearms Forum

bizy · 08-29-2009, 01:47 PM

Can Muzzle loading powder be used to load popular rifle loads?
.223, 243, 308?

Alpo · 08-29-2009, 02:12 PM

It can. Doesn't seem to work real well. Black powder seems to work better in straight-walled cases. Mild bottle-necks work okay. Drastic bottle-necks - not so well.

A prime example of this is the 30/30. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3030winchester.jpg First commercial smokeless round. People would buy the smokeless factory loads, and then reload them with black. Didn't work real good with black.

So they came out with the 32/40. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3240.jpg All it is is a 30/30 expanded to 32 caliber. No ballistic advantage to the 30/30, but with the larger bullet and straight sloping case (instead of the 30/30's bottleneck) it worked much better with black powder.

Alpo · 08-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Also, it would need to be used in a manually operated repeater (bolt, lever, pump). Because of the fouling it would gum up an autoloader very quickly.

Rocket J Squirl · 08-29-2009, 06:35 PM

30-30 = 30 cal 30gr black powder
47-70 = 45 cal 70gr black powder

Tho none of these rounds use black powder any more. You can, and over at the cool boolits forum they do.

Modern bolt guns with cast bullets maybe. Your sure gonna muck up the insides.

Im debating picking up a Winchester just so I can try it out.
I wont use it in my Marlin 30-30

JLA · 08-29-2009, 08:00 PM

its a pain in the but in bottle neck cartridges but anything straightwalleed works pretty well, and you can put black powder in it until its filled to the top and squish a bullet in there without worrying about high pressure. .44 mag loaded to the top with black and a 240 gr bullet is a veeeery mild recoiling load and makes lots of smoke...

GMFWoodchuck · 08-30-2009, 07:21 AM

To much mess to clean too. Save the black powder for the intended guns.

army mp · 08-30-2009, 07:59 AM

Just wondering How many guns have been ruined. And people have been hurt. Because of these shortages. It seems daily you are seeing more and more post on , Substituting Loads. Switching Primers. And now Black powder for smokeless. Also Some of the questions you hear on casting are pretty far out there. It amazes me that the same guys that would be meticulous about reloading. But will go out get a lee mold and start casting bullets with no Idea as to what they are doing. I for one will be glad when you can walk into your gun shop, and pretty much walk out with what you went in for.

Alpo · 08-30-2009, 08:48 AM

First, I believe bizy is not in the US. So the current ammo shortage is not his problem. Getting anything at all to shoot in his guns is his problem, and has been for a while, which is why he is asking about substituting pistol powders and using the wrong primers and things like that.

Second, black powder is perfectly safe in cartridge guns. As JLA said, you cannot put enough in the case to harm the gun. It's just not as efficient, and it's a pain in the butt to clean.

JLA · 08-30-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by army mp

Just wondering How many guns have been ruined. And people have been hurt. Because of these shortages. It seems daily you are seeing more and more post on , Substituting Loads. Switching Primers. And now Black powder for smokeless. Also Some of the questions you hear on casting are pretty far out there. It amazes me that the same guys that would be meticulous about reloading. But will go out get a lee mold and start casting bullets with no Idea as to what they are doing. I for one will be glad when you can walk into your gun shop, and pretty much walk out with what you went in for.

AMEN brother

JLA · 08-30-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

First, I believe bizy is not in the US. So the current ammo shortage is not his problem. Getting anything at all to shoot in his guns is his problem, and has been for a while, which is why he is asking about substituting pistol powders and using the wrong primers and things like that.

Second, black powder is perfectly safe in cartridge guns. As JLA said, you cannot put enough in the case to harm the gun. It's just not as efficient, and it's a pain in the butt to clean.

Plus it smells good, and if you hammer out 6 rounds real quick you can disappear in the smoke like a stealth ninja

army mp · 08-30-2009, 09:39 AM

No I was not talking about bizy. Or the use of Black powder specifically. I go to 3 other firearm Form. And the questions you hear today. You can tell there are a lot of new reloaders, as well as experimenting going on. Some substitutions are fine. Others are not. And people should ask questions. But how many of these new loaders are not asking. Or taking the time to research, before trying something that has the potential to do harm.

08-29-2009, 01:47 PM	#1
bizy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marlow, Ok Posts: 344	Using Muzzle Loading Powder Can Muzzle loading powder be used to load popular rifle loads? .223, 243, 308? -->

08-29-2009, 02:12 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,652	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder It can. Doesn't seem to work real well. Black powder seems to work better in straight-walled cases. Mild bottle-necks work okay. Drastic bottle-necks - not so well. A prime example of this is the 30/30. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3030winchester.jpg First commercial smokeless round. People would buy the smokeless factory loads, and then reload them with black. Didn't work real good with black. So they came out with the 32/40. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3240.jpg All it is is a 30/30 expanded to 32 caliber. No ballistic advantage to the 30/30, but with the larger bullet and straight sloping case (instead of the 30/30's bottleneck) it worked much better with black powder. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

08-29-2009, 02:14 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,652	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder Also, it would need to be used in a manually operated repeater (bolt, lever, pump). Because of the fouling it would gum up an autoloader very quickly. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

08-29-2009, 06:35 PM	#4
Rocket J Squirl Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 418	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder 30-30 = 30 cal 30gr black powder 47-70 = 45 cal 70gr black powder Tho none of these rounds use black powder any more. You can, and over at the cool boolits forum they do. Modern bolt guns with cast bullets maybe. Your sure gonna muck up the insides. Im debating picking up a Winchester just so I can try it out. I wont use it in my Marlin 30-30

08-29-2009, 08:00 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder its a pain in the but in bottle neck cartridges but anything straightwalleed works pretty well, and you can put black powder in it until its filled to the top and squish a bullet in there without worrying about high pressure. .44 mag loaded to the top with black and a 240 gr bullet is a veeeery mild recoiling load and makes lots of smoke... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-30-2009, 07:21 AM	#6
GMFWoodchuck Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 1,369	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder To much mess to clean too. Save the black powder for the intended guns.

08-30-2009, 07:59 AM	#7
army mp V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: western Pa, Posts: 479	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder Just wondering How many guns have been ruined. And people have been hurt. Because of these shortages. It seems daily you are seeing more and more post on , Substituting Loads. Switching Primers. And now Black powder for smokeless. Also Some of the questions you hear on casting are pretty far out there. It amazes me that the same guys that would be meticulous about reloading. But will go out get a lee mold and start casting bullets with no Idea as to what they are doing. I for one will be glad when you can walk into your gun shop, and pretty much walk out with what you went in for.

08-30-2009, 08:48 AM	#8
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,652	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder First, I believe bizy is not in the US. So the current ammo shortage is not his problem. Getting anything at all to shoot in his guns is his problem, and has been for a while, which is why he is asking about substituting pistol powders and using the wrong primers and things like that. Second, black powder is perfectly safe in cartridge guns. As JLA said, you cannot put enough in the case to harm the gun. It's just not as efficient, and it's a pain in the butt to clean. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies. Last edited by Alpo; 08-30-2009 at 08:49 AM..

08-30-2009, 09:39 AM	#11
army mp V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: western Pa, Posts: 479	Re: Using Muzzle Loading Powder No I was not talking about bizy. Or the use of Black powder specifically. I go to 3 other firearm Form. And the questions you hear today. You can tell there are a lot of new reloaders, as well as experimenting going on. Some substitutions are fine. Others are not. And people should ask questions. But how many of these new loaders are not asking. Or taking the time to research, before trying something that has the potential to do harm.