The Gun-Show "Loophole" - The Firearms Forum

hogger129 · 05-28-2010, 06:54 PM

What is the "Gun Show Loophole?" I was reading some news about concealed carry in Wisconsin and how some gun control advocates are willing to compromise and allow concealed carry to happen in Wisconsin if the "gun show loophole" is closed. What exactly is the gun-show loophole? I guess only federally-licensed gun dealers have to run background checks. I mean wouldn't running background checks on ALL firearms be a good thing? I think it would certainly help them stay out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them. I guess I don't understand what that term means. And why the gun-control advocates want it closed. Usually gun-control advocates have something they're not telling us. What is the hidden agenda behind their "compromise?"

wpage · 05-28-2010, 07:43 PM

Its like the do nut hole in SS. Hard to get a handle on.

armedandsafe · 05-28-2010, 08:02 PM

To close the "gun show loophole" , which doesn't exist, every sale of a firearm will have to be checked. The only ones allowed to check a firearm buyer are firearms dealers and LEO. So, when you decide to sell you Browning to a buddy, so you can afford that Henry, you will both have to go down to the shop and pay for a background check.

Now, this is a good thing, because it will make all those thieves,burglars, dope dealers and gang members show up at the local LEO shop in order to sell and buy their stolen guns. That in itself will stop all those guns from committing those crimes. It might even mean that fewer guns will be stolen, as the guns will know that they are not to change ownership without a background check. The guns then might turn on the thieves and shoot them. That would save the honest gun owners the trouble of having to get out of bed to protect their homes, families and selves. Sounds like win/win to me.

Pops

user · 05-28-2010, 08:11 PM

The "loophole" is the U.S. Constitution, which makes the states pre-eminent in the regulation of the ownership, possession, and use of private property. An intrastate transfer of private property from one person to another, where both are residents of the same state in which the transaction occurred, is not subject to regulation under the Commerce Clause.

pickenup · 05-28-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Now, this is a good thing, because it will make all those thieves,burglars, dope dealers and gang members show up at the local LEO shop in order to sell and buy their stolen guns. That in itself will stop all those guns from committing those crimes. It might even mean that fewer guns will be stolen, as the guns will know that they are not to change ownership without a background check. The guns then might turn on the thieves and shoot them. That would save the honest gun owners the trouble of having to get out of bed to protect their homes, families and selves. Sounds like win/win to me.

Pops

ROFLMAO
Good-un Pops.

graehaven · 05-28-2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user

The "loophole" is the U.S. Constitution, which makes the states pre-eminent in the regulation of the ownership, possession, and use of private property. An intrastate transfer of private property from one person to another, where both are residents of the same state in which the transaction occurred, is not subject to regulation under the Commerce Clause.

Outstanding point!

graehaven · 05-28-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickenup

ROFLMAO
Good-un Pops.

Yes, indeed! Very well said.

hogger129 · 05-29-2010, 06:35 AM

Thanks guys. I just didn't know what it really meant and I know gun-control advocates always have some tricky business behind their smiling faces. So I wanted the low-down on it from you guys first.

bcj1755 · 05-29-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogger129

Thanks guys. I just didn't know what it really meant and I know gun-control advocates always have some tricky business behind their smiling faces. So I wanted the low-down on it from you guys first.

Remember, the bigger the smile, the sharper the knife

armedandsafe · 05-29-2010, 11:54 AM

Richard, check your PMs

Pops

Teejay9 · 05-29-2010, 12:12 PM

The so-called loophole is where private citizens sell their goods to another private citizen. This is done without a waiting period or back ground check. The anti's think that's how bangers and hoods get their guns. Actually, to tell the truth, I've been to several very large shows and you don't really see a punk laying down $600-700 for an older collectible pistol or rifle. The new stuff is sold by the licensed dealers. They make you do all the forms, etc. So, the loop hole is you buy from a PC, and walk out with it. You buy from a dealer and you get to go to their store and pick it up after the legal time has been fulfilled. So, Bob's your Uncle, that's it in a nutshell. TJ

JetGirl · 05-29-2010, 01:49 PM

Q: What do you call it when a guy (or gal) buys a firearm privately from another guy (or gal) in their home, driveway, on a country road, in a restaurant parking lot, etc.?

A: a completely legal “face to face” transaction.

Q: What do you call it when that exact same guy (or gal) buys that exact same firearm from the exact same other guy (or gal) in the exact same fashion in the parking lot of a swap meet or gun show?

A: a “Gun Show Loophole”!

The media would like you to believe that private sales taking place between individuals who are not part of the gun show are in fact what the “loophole” is about. An individual who is not in the business of selling firearms, yet trades or sells a firearm to another private individual, is not obligated to obtain the federal license required of gun dealers or to call the FBI before completing the sale. This is a PRIVATE transaction and thus is not part of a “gun show” and is by default not part of any “loophole”.

In essence, “gun show loopholes” are akin to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
The jury is still out on Santa.

Bobitis · 05-29-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissAnnThrope

Q: What do you call it when a guy (or gal) buys a firearm privately from another guy (or gal) in their home, driveway, on a country road, in a restaurant parking lot, etc.?

A: a completely legal “face to face” transaction.

Q: What do you call it when that exact same guy (or gal) buys that exact same firearm from the exact same other guy (or gal) in the exact same fashion in the parking lot of a swap meet or gun show?

A: a “Gun Show Loophole”!

The media would like you to believe that private sales taking place between individuals who are not part of the gun show are in fact what the “loophole” is about. An individual who is not in the business of selling firearms, yet trades or sells a firearm to another private individual, is not obligated to obtain the federal license required of gun dealers or to call the FBI before completing the sale. This is a PRIVATE transaction and thus is not part of a “gun show” and is by default not part of any “loophole”.

In essence, “gun show loopholes” are akin to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
The jury is still out on Santa.

Pretty much sums it up Annie.

Thanks.

JetGirl · 05-29-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobitis

Pretty much sums it up Annie.

Thanks.

pinecone70 · 05-29-2010, 04:47 PM

I have seen dealers purchase guns from private citizens at the shows, but have not seen citizens selling to other citizens out of the trunks of cars, etc. like 'they' are always talking about. Could be that it just doesn't happen around here, or I don't see it happen. Perhaps I don't look shady enough to be in on the secret.

wyoredot · 05-30-2010, 10:19 AM

First time I bought a weapon from the guy, he had me sign a piece of paper that meant nothing. Next ones were just handshake and thanks very much. Same as when i sell one. I don't believe in that loophole accusation and sure don't feel like I need to 'comply'.

RJD · 05-30-2010, 11:25 AM

"the last gunshow i went to, my buddy bought a glock 22 40 caliber from a private deal. no background check, no ID, just cash and a handshake. the way it should be, and the way it still is some of the time in kentucky"

If I bought a gun from a guy I didn't know I would always wonder if I might now own a stolen gun.

Redhand · 05-31-2010, 07:45 PM

Thats happens when you have made the entire loop thru a gunshow trying to sell a nice piece and you've encountered all the a-holes degrading your firearm to lowball you. And just as you're leaving, after wasting your time and money someone comes thru the door, see's what you have and its exactly what they are looking for and gives you good money for it. But there again even the leftists have coined the phrase the "So called gun show loophole"

Rocketman1 · 06-01-2010, 08:09 PM

[QUOTE=RJD;637590
If I bought a gun from a guy I didn't know I would always wonder if I might now own a stolen gun.[/QUOTE]

Ohoo... I have often thought about this as well. If it is stolen, then you can be arrested for receiving stolen property. Scary.

rentalguy1 · 06-01-2010, 09:32 PM

close the "loophole" and the bad guys will still get guns. The only thing it would accomplish is to slow down the good guys from protecting themselves.

FWIW, I used to see trunk sales in the parking lot at local guns shows all the time, but not as much any more. There has been no law changes, so I can only attribute it to everyone is holding on to what they have.

rentalguy1 · 06-01-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocketman1

Ohoo... I have often thought about this as well. If it is stolen, then you can be arrested for receiving stolen property. Scary.

They would only confiscate the gun, not arrest you. They would only arrest you if you knowingly accepted stolen property.

RJD · 06-02-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rentalguy1

They would only confiscate the gun, not arrest you. They would only arrest you if you knowingly accepted stolen property.

But if that stolen gun in your possession had been used in a crime you might have to spend some time "down town" trying to explain/convince someone you didn't know anything about it. Or maybe not, just wondering what might happen.

Bigr Bang Thry · 09-07-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetGirl

Q: What do you call it when a guy (or gal) buys a firearm privately from another guy (or gal) in their home, driveway, on a country road, in a restaurant parking lot, etc.?

A: a completely legal “face to face” transaction.

Q: What do you call it when that exact same guy (or gal) buys that exact same firearm from the exact same other guy (or gal) in the exact same fashion in the parking lot of a swap meet or gun show?

A: a “Gun Show Loophole”!

The media would like you to believe that private sales taking place between individuals who are not part of the gun show are in fact what the “loophole” is about. An individual who is not in the business of selling firearms, yet trades or sells a firearm to another private individual, is not obligated to obtain the federal license required of gun dealers or to call the FBI before completing the sale. This is a PRIVATE transaction and thus is not part of a “gun show” and is by default not part of any “loophole”.

In essence, “gun show loopholes” are akin to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
The jury is still out on Santa.

WAIT A MINUTE !!! ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY AND THE EASTER BUNNY DON'T EXIST, AND THAT SANTA MAY NOT EITHER ???

Bigr Bang Thry · 09-07-2011, 02:52 PM

In New York, where I live, The state has passed a law that prevents the private sale on the grounds of a gun show, even the parking lot. Now, in order to purchase something from a private citizen, you have to leave the grounds. There are just as many private sales occuring, it's just that they're happening in the parking lot at Mc Donalds... I'm SURE that everyone inside is freaking out when it happens, so I'm waiting for the "Mc Donald's Loophole Bill" to be introduced by CHUCKY SCHUMER any day now... Handguns are not transferrable without going to the authorities anyways, as ALL handguns are registered in this state.

al45lc · 09-07-2011, 02:54 PM

In all my private transactions I insist on seeing a state I.D. and getting a signature on paper of the transaction as to serial # (where applicable) and the persons info. If they don't want to do it, I don't buy or sell. Simple C.Y.A. measures. If they're looking for a "loophole" or are paranoid, I'm not interested.

05-28-2010, 06:54 PM	#1
hogger129 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,064	The Gun-Show "Loophole" What is the "Gun Show Loophole?" I was reading some news about concealed carry in Wisconsin and how some gun control advocates are willing to compromise and allow concealed carry to happen in Wisconsin if the "gun show loophole" is closed. What exactly is the gun-show loophole? I guess only federally-licensed gun dealers have to run background checks. I mean wouldn't running background checks on ALL firearms be a good thing? I think it would certainly help them stay out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them. I guess I don't understand what that term means. And why the gun-control advocates want it closed. Usually gun-control advocates have something they're not telling us. What is the hidden agenda behind their "compromise?" __________________ Samuel Adams once said, "among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." --> Last edited by hogger129; 05-28-2010 at 06:56 PM..

05-28-2010, 07:43 PM	#2
wpage Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,471	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" Its like the do nut hole in SS. Hard to get a handle on. __________________ "You shall recieve power" Acts 1:8 W

05-28-2010, 08:02 PM	#3
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" To close the "gun show loophole" , which doesn't exist, every sale of a firearm will have to be checked. The only ones allowed to check a firearm buyer are firearms dealers and LEO. So, when you decide to sell you Browning to a buddy, so you can afford that Henry, you will both have to go down to the shop and pay for a background check. Now, this is a good thing, because it will make all those thieves,burglars, dope dealers and gang members show up at the local LEO shop in order to sell and buy their stolen guns. That in itself will stop all those guns from committing those crimes. It might even mean that fewer guns will be stolen, as the guns will know that they are not to change ownership without a background check. The guns then might turn on the thieves and shoot them. That would save the honest gun owners the trouble of having to get out of bed to protect their homes, families and selves. Sounds like win/win to me. Pops

05-28-2010, 08:11 PM	#4
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" The "loophole" is the U.S. Constitution, which makes the states pre-eminent in the regulation of the ownership, possession, and use of private property. An intrastate transfer of private property from one person to another, where both are residents of the same state in which the transaction occurred, is not subject to regulation under the Commerce Clause. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

05-29-2010, 06:35 AM	#8
hogger129 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,064	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" Thanks guys. I just didn't know what it really meant and I know gun-control advocates always have some tricky business behind their smiling faces. So I wanted the low-down on it from you guys first. __________________ Samuel Adams once said, "among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

05-29-2010, 11:54 AM	#10
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" Richard, check your PMs Pops

05-29-2010, 12:12 PM	#11
Teejay9 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fence will stop us!!" Posts: 1,257	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" The so-called loophole is where private citizens sell their goods to another private citizen. This is done without a waiting period or back ground check. The anti's think that's how bangers and hoods get their guns. Actually, to tell the truth, I've been to several very large shows and you don't really see a punk laying down $600-700 for an older collectible pistol or rifle. The new stuff is sold by the licensed dealers. They make you do all the forms, etc. So, the loop hole is you buy from a PC, and walk out with it. You buy from a dealer and you get to go to their store and pick it up after the legal time has been fulfilled. So, Bob's your Uncle, that's it in a nutshell. TJ __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

05-29-2010, 01:49 PM	#12
JetGirl V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 206	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" Q: What do you call it when a guy (or gal) buys a firearm privately from another guy (or gal) in their home, driveway, on a country road, in a restaurant parking lot, etc.? A: a completely legal “face to face” transaction. Q: What do you call it when that exact same guy (or gal) buys that exact same firearm from the exact same other guy (or gal) in the exact same fashion in the parking lot of a swap meet or gun show? A: a “Gun Show Loophole”! The media would like you to believe that private sales taking place between individuals who are not part of the gun show are in fact what the “loophole” is about. An individual who is not in the business of selling firearms, yet trades or sells a firearm to another private individual, is not obligated to obtain the federal license required of gun dealers or to call the FBI before completing the sale. This is a PRIVATE transaction and thus is not part of a “gun show” and is by default not part of any “loophole”. In essence, “gun show loopholes” are akin to the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. The jury is still out on Santa.

05-29-2010, 04:47 PM	#15
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" I have seen dealers purchase guns from private citizens at the shows, but have not seen citizens selling to other citizens out of the trunks of cars, etc. like 'they' are always talking about. Could be that it just doesn't happen around here, or I don't see it happen. Perhaps I don't look shady enough to be in on the secret. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

05-30-2010, 11:25 AM	#17
RJD Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" "the last gunshow i went to, my buddy bought a glock 22 40 caliber from a private deal. no background check, no ID, just cash and a handshake. the way it should be, and the way it still is some of the time in kentucky" If I bought a gun from a guy I didn't know I would always wonder if I might now own a stolen gun.

05-31-2010, 07:45 PM	#18
Redhand Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 605	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" Thats happens when you have made the entire loop thru a gunshow trying to sell a nice piece and you've encountered all the a-holes degrading your firearm to lowball you. And just as you're leaving, after wasting your time and money someone comes thru the door, see's what you have and its exactly what they are looking for and gives you good money for it. But there again even the leftists have coined the phrase the "So called gun show loophole"

06-01-2010, 08:09 PM	#19
Rocketman1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,097	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" [QUOTE=RJD;637590 If I bought a gun from a guy I didn't know I would always wonder if I might now own a stolen gun.[/QUOTE] Ohoo... I have often thought about this as well. If it is stolen, then you can be arrested for receiving stolen property. Scary.

06-01-2010, 09:32 PM	#20
rentalguy1 Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The mountains of NE TN. Posts: 884	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" close the "loophole" and the bad guys will still get guns. The only thing it would accomplish is to slow down the good guys from protecting themselves. FWIW, I used to see trunk sales in the parking lot at local guns shows all the time, but not as much any more. There has been no law changes, so I can only attribute it to everyone is holding on to what they have.

09-07-2011, 02:52 PM	#24
Bigr Bang Thry V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 186	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" In New York, where I live, The state has passed a law that prevents the private sale on the grounds of a gun show, even the parking lot. Now, in order to purchase something from a private citizen, you have to leave the grounds. There are just as many private sales occuring, it's just that they're happening in the parking lot at Mc Donalds... I'm SURE that everyone inside is freaking out when it happens, so I'm waiting for the "Mc Donald's Loophole Bill" to be introduced by CHUCKY SCHUMER any day now... Handguns are not transferrable without going to the authorities anyways, as ALL handguns are registered in this state.

09-07-2011, 02:54 PM	#25
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: The Gun-Show "Loophole" In all my private transactions I insist on seeing a state I.D. and getting a signature on paper of the transaction as to serial # (where applicable) and the persons info. If they don't want to do it, I don't buy or sell. Simple C.Y.A. measures. If they're looking for a "loophole" or are paranoid, I'm not interested. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.