Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) - The Firearms Forum

BillyD9 · 03-03-2010, 07:58 PM

I didn't know if I wanted to reload or not, so I got in as cheap as I could via a Lee kit for $86.00. Make it $130.00 with the dies for a 45-70 and shipping. I decided to stick with one powder, one bullet, and one primer until I knew more about what I was doing. Anyway, I loaded my first ammo last night using the same bullet Hornady uses in their Leverevolution ammo. One of my bullets is, to the eye, identical to theirs. Now, somebody says I need Lee's "factory crimp". I can't see it, but maybe somebody knows more than I do?

todd51 · 03-03-2010, 08:24 PM

Billy, I have no experience loading the 45-70 (think Old Semperfi shoots and loads them alot). I just got my factory crimp dies and am still getting used to them. So far I like the idea a lot. Do you need them? No. Are they nice to have? So far I would say yes. But my .45 Colt reloads made with Lee's regular three die set came out just fine and when I ran them through the properly adjusted FCD there was no changes made in sizing the case or changing the crimp. That was not the case with my 9mm and .38spl.

My .45 brass has not been shot all that many times and with low power loads at that so the case length had not changed. That is not the case with the .38s as some of them have been shot and reloaded many times. Getting the bullet seating depth and the roll crimp just right can be a pain unless the cases are all trimmed to length. That factory crimp die eliminates that hassle.

Alpo · 03-03-2010, 09:20 PM

What are you shootin' it in? It's not necessary (although it is nice) for a single shot. You got a tube magazine lever gun, though, and you want a good stout crimp. Otherwise, between the magazine spring force and the recoil, you can end up with bullet setback. You can probably do it with the seat/crimp die, but the FCD does it so easier.

howlnmad · 03-04-2010, 09:27 AM

Is it a must have? No. Is it nice to have? Yes. Differing case length is not an issue, it will crimp even when using a bullet with no crimp groove, it won't crush a round from over crimping and it resizes the entire cartridge. Search it on you tube.

carver · 03-04-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyD9

I didn't know if I wanted to reload or not, so I got in as cheap as I could via a Lee kit for $86.00. Make it $130.00 with the dies for a 45-70 and shipping. I decided to stick with one powder, one bullet, and one primer until I knew more about what I was doing. Anyway, I loaded my first ammo last night using the same bullet Hornady uses in their Leverevolution ammo. One of my bullets is, to the eye, identical to theirs. Now, somebody says I need Lee's "factory crimp". I can't see it, but maybe somebody knows more than I do?

You don't need it! KISS

mikld · 03-04-2010, 10:00 AM

How long have folks been reloading 45-70? Seems to have been millions of rounds loaded before the Lee Factory Crimp Die was invented, so, no you don't need one. Have you had any feeding probs with your reloaded ammo? I personally don't use mine for handgun ammo 'cause the die sizes the loaded round as it crimps. Not good for my boolit-to-bore fit.

gandog56 · 03-06-2010, 11:38 PM

Not a necessity, but nice to have, If they make a FCD for my caliber I have it.

BigJakeJ1s · 03-07-2010, 05:13 PM

There are two distinct types of Lee FCD. The FCD for rifle and bottleneck pistol cartridges uses a collet that contacts the shell holder to activate it (independent of the case length), and does an excellent job of crimping regardless of case trim length, with practically no chance of buckling the case.

Then there are Lee's Carbide FCDs for straight wall pistol cartridges. They combine a conventional roll or taper crimp ring (as appropriate for the cartridge), with a carbide post-sizing ring at the bottom of the die that is designed to iron out any buckling of the case caused by applying the crimp. It does NOT size the cartridge as small as a regular sizing die does. The point is that the post-sizing ring does absolutely nothing unless you messed up the crimp to start with, e.g. from a mis-adjusted crimp die, or from brass that is not trimmed properly. Ironing over these problems prevents you from detecting them and fixing them at their source. On top of this, the CFCD I have for 45 colt is poorly made, with a roughly finished crimp ring that scrapes up the outside of the case mouth. Apparently this is not uncommon, since I have seen the exact same problem on gun-show reloads.

It is interesting that my two favorite Lee products both use collets (collet neck sizing dies and collet-type FCDs). If they would make FCDs for straight wall pistol cartridges with collets instead of carbide post-sizing rings, I would buy one in a heartbeat for every straight wall pistol cartridge I reload.

Andy

Unsubjugated · 03-07-2010, 10:13 PM

One of my friends swears by them, but they have limits to when he will use them. He likes the 44 mag crimp die to put a heavy crimp into bullets that do not have a crimp groove and the 30 carbine die to close the mouth of the 7.62 nagant so it will function properly in the suppressed gas sealing revolver.

BobMcG · 03-14-2010, 08:36 AM

While loading for my .45-70, I've never felt the need for using the LFCD and never had a problem due to a seating die crimp. However, it's a single shot rifle so I can't comment through experience about loading for a tube mag version.
Other straight walled cases I've also found no need for the LFCD are the .44 mag; .375mag; .38spl. . I've never had a seating die crimp for one of my revolvers fail to hold a bullet firmly.
On a different note, straight walled cases I have found a use for the LFCD on are the .40S&W and 9mm Luger pistol loads. Is it necessary? Maybe not but it makes me feel better when loading max or near max loads knowing that the bullet isn't going to get moved back the least bit while feeding. I don't do fast, high-volume loading for these rounds and don't mind the extra step.

03-03-2010, 07:58 PM	#1
BillyD9 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2	Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) I didn't know if I wanted to reload or not, so I got in as cheap as I could via a Lee kit for $86.00. Make it $130.00 with the dies for a 45-70 and shipping. I decided to stick with one powder, one bullet, and one primer until I knew more about what I was doing. Anyway, I loaded my first ammo last night using the same bullet Hornady uses in their Leverevolution ammo. One of my bullets is, to the eye, identical to theirs. Now, somebody says I need Lee's "factory crimp". I can't see it, but maybe somebody knows more than I do? -->

03-03-2010, 08:24 PM	#2
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,574	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) Billy, I have no experience loading the 45-70 (think Old Semperfi shoots and loads them alot). I just got my factory crimp dies and am still getting used to them. So far I like the idea a lot. Do you need them? No. Are they nice to have? So far I would say yes. But my .45 Colt reloads made with Lee's regular three die set came out just fine and when I ran them through the properly adjusted FCD there was no changes made in sizing the case or changing the crimp. That was not the case with my 9mm and .38spl. My .45 brass has not been shot all that many times and with low power loads at that so the case length had not changed. That is not the case with the .38s as some of them have been shot and reloaded many times. Getting the bullet seating depth and the roll crimp just right can be a pain unless the cases are all trimmed to length. That factory crimp die eliminates that hassle. __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

03-03-2010, 09:20 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) What are you shootin' it in? It's not necessary (although it is nice) for a single shot. You got a tube magazine lever gun, though, and you want a good stout crimp. Otherwise, between the magazine spring force and the recoil, you can end up with bullet setback. You can probably do it with the seat/crimp die, but the FCD does it so easier. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-04-2010, 09:27 AM	#4
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,571	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) Is it a must have? No. Is it nice to have? Yes. Differing case length is not an issue, it will crimp even when using a bullet with no crimp groove, it won't crush a round from over crimping and it resizes the entire cartridge. Search it on you tube. __________________

03-04-2010, 10:00 AM	#6
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 573	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) How long have folks been reloading 45-70? Seems to have been millions of rounds loaded before the Lee Factory Crimp Die was invented, so, no you don't need one. Have you had any feeding probs with your reloaded ammo? I personally don't use mine for handgun ammo 'cause the die sizes the loaded round as it crimps. Not good for my boolit-to-bore fit. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.

03-06-2010, 11:38 PM	#7
gandog56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mobile AL. Posts: 325	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) Not a necessity, but nice to have, If they make a FCD for my caliber I have it.

03-07-2010, 05:13 PM	#8
BigJakeJ1s V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 121	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) There are two distinct types of Lee FCD. The FCD for rifle and bottleneck pistol cartridges uses a collet that contacts the shell holder to activate it (independent of the case length), and does an excellent job of crimping regardless of case trim length, with practically no chance of buckling the case. Then there are Lee's Carbide FCDs for straight wall pistol cartridges. They combine a conventional roll or taper crimp ring (as appropriate for the cartridge), with a carbide post-sizing ring at the bottom of the die that is designed to iron out any buckling of the case caused by applying the crimp. It does NOT size the cartridge as small as a regular sizing die does. The point is that the post-sizing ring does absolutely nothing unless you messed up the crimp to start with, e.g. from a mis-adjusted crimp die, or from brass that is not trimmed properly. Ironing over these problems prevents you from detecting them and fixing them at their source. On top of this, the CFCD I have for 45 colt is poorly made, with a roughly finished crimp ring that scrapes up the outside of the case mouth. Apparently this is not uncommon, since I have seen the exact same problem on gun-show reloads. It is interesting that my two favorite Lee products both use collets (collet neck sizing dies and collet-type FCDs). If they would make FCDs for straight wall pistol cartridges with collets instead of carbide post-sizing rings, I would buy one in a heartbeat for every straight wall pistol cartridge I reload. Andy

03-07-2010, 10:13 PM	#9
Unsubjugated Former Guest Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: PacNW, USA Posts: 6	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) One of my friends swears by them, but they have limits to when he will use them. He likes the 44 mag crimp die to put a heavy crimp into bullets that do not have a crimp groove and the 30 carbine die to close the mouth of the 7.62 nagant so it will function properly in the suppressed gas sealing revolver.

03-14-2010, 08:36 AM	#10
BobMcG Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Twilight Zone. Contributor Posts: 1,119	Re: Lee factory crimp die (is it necessary) While loading for my .45-70, I've never felt the need for using the LFCD and never had a problem due to a seating die crimp. However, it's a single shot rifle so I can't comment through experience about loading for a tube mag version. Other straight walled cases I've also found no need for the LFCD are the .44 mag; .375mag; .38spl. . I've never had a seating die crimp for one of my revolvers fail to hold a bullet firmly. On a different note, straight walled cases I have found a use for the LFCD on are the .40S&W and 9mm Luger pistol loads. Is it necessary? Maybe not but it makes me feel better when loading max or near max loads knowing that the bullet isn't going to get moved back the least bit while feeding. I don't do fast, high-volume loading for these rounds and don't mind the extra step.