Winchester White Box Again - The Firearms Forum

wingspar · 11-02-2009, 10:18 PM

Seems like every time I turn around, I learn something new about 9mm ammo. ordered a box of WWB in 9mm not too long ago. Looks like all the other WWB 9mm ammo I’ve bought. Just took delivery of two more boxes today. I pulled a shell out of the box for the heck of it, and was surprised to see a flat nose bullet. Then I noticed the box said “WinClean” on it. It also says 115 GR. BEB. What is BEB? Is there any other differences between these two bullets?

Nothing like a photo to paint the picture I’m describing. WinClean on the left.

Dang macro lens shows all the defects.

RandyP · 11-02-2009, 10:35 PM

BEB is Brass Enclosed Base...fully encapsulated bullet in other words.

From the Winchester website.....gotta luv Google:

http://www.winchester.com/products/c...px?symbol=WC93

312shooter · 11-02-2009, 10:47 PM

What really got my attention most on this post is the price tag on the box......OUCH!

Alpo · 11-03-2009, 08:08 AM

Most primer mixtures use lead styphnate as the explosive. So when you fire there is a minute amount of lead dust released into the air.

When you make a jacketed bullet, you basically have a cup of copper with lead poured into the cup, and then the bullet is formed into shape under pressure. If you have a jacketed hollow point, or a jacketed soft point, the open mouth of the cup becomes the front of the bullet, with the lead exposed. If you have a full metal jacket, on the other hand, the open mouth of the cup becomes the base of the bullet, so there is lead facing the powder charge. When you fire, the flame from the powder vaporizes a minute amount of the lead base, again putting a tiny bit of lead into the air.

When shooting outside, this is of no importance, but when shooting at an indoor range, the lead concentration can get quite heavy, and you are breathing it in. So they came up with "Non-toxic" ammo. They use a different priming mixture, so no lead in the primer, and they completely enclose the bullet in metal, so there is no lead base exposed to the powder's flame.

As for the bullet shape, that is called a "truncated cone", and has been found to be more accurate than the old stand-by, "round nose" - at least in 9mm.

res45 · 11-03-2009, 09:28 AM

And if you want to load your own lead safe ammo you can buy TMJ or Total Metal Jacket bullets such as Berry's or Rainier's and use Lead free primer,there a little harder to find and pricey but PMC makes them.

Primers
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9016

Bullets
http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm
http://www.berrysmfg.com/products.aspx?c=58

wingspar · 11-03-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyP

BEB is Brass Enclosed Base...fully encapsulated bullet in other words.

From the Winchester website.....gotta luv Google:

http://www.winchester.com/products/c...px?symbol=WC93

Thanks for the info and the link. Looks like the WinClean BEB bullet has a slight advantage over the FMJ. It’s just that this is the first time I’ve seen a 9mm round shaped like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 312shooter

What really got my attention most on this post is the price tag on the box......OUCH!

The price tag on the other box of WinClean was $14.95. I paid $14.95 for them. I should fix that $20 in my first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

As for the bullet shape, that is called a "truncated cone", and has been found to be more accurate than the old stand-by, "round nose" - at least in 9mm.

Thank you for that excellent explanation. The winchester site does give the WinClean bullet a slight advantage in velocity and accuracy, tho whether I can take advantage of that is another matter all together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by res45

And if you want to load your own lead safe ammo you can buy TMJ or Total Metal Jacket bullets such as Berry's or Rainier's and use Lead free primer,there a little harder to find and pricey but PMC makes them.

Reloading is not in my future.

jacksonco · 11-03-2009, 12:57 PM

[QUOTE=wingspar;532832]Thanks for the info and the link. Looks like the WinClean BEB bullet has a slight advantage over the FMJ. It’s just that this is the first time I’ve seen a 9mm round shaped like this.

That bullet shape is identical to the 9mm bullet used in 357 SIG cartridges

wingspar · 11-04-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonco

That bullet shape is identical to the 9mm bullet used in 357 SIG cartridges

Well, I wanted to say “Huh, what are you talking about”, but decided to Google the 357 cartridge first. I own a .357, and know there is a big difference between the .357 and the 357 Sig. Below is the definition of the 357 Sig from the Wikipedia page. Built from a necked down .40 S&W, and using a 9mm bullet (which I did not know), how did it earn the designation .357?

The .357 SIG pistol cartridge is the product of Swiss firearms manufacturer SIG-Sauer, in cooperation with the American ammunition manufacturer Federal Cartridge. While it is based on a .40 S&W case necked down to accept 0.355-inch (9.0 mm) bullets, the .357 SIG brass is longer. With a good hollow point bullet, the .357 SIG penetrates well and has sufficient energy transfer to impart hydrostatic shock in living targets.

woolleyworm · 11-04-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingspar

how did it earn the designation .357?

It's supposed to be a near ballistic equivalent to the .357 mag, therefore a theoretical reference on caliber and not an actual.

wingspar · 11-04-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

It's supposed to be a near ballistic equivalent to the .357 mag, therefore a theoretical reference on caliber and not an actual.

Thanks.

gearchecker · 11-09-2009, 09:01 PM

wingspar,
Look at the bottom right corner of the box and you will see the actual product code for the ammo type.
For the BEB amm it's WC91XX and for the FMJ it's Q4172
If you find that you like one type over another make sure you buy the amm by the product code. tehn you will always get exactly what you want without having to open the box to see what's in it.

My 9mm likes the FMJ ammo the best. It seems to feed smoother with out mis-loading.

wingspar · 11-10-2009, 11:35 AM

I haven’t shot any of this stuff yet, and not sure when I will. I noticed those codes, and will go by those codes the next time I order. Not sure I’ll like one better than the other, but will take notes when I shoot them.

wingspar · 11-10-2009, 11:54 AM

Well, WWB is all I’ve ever shot in my 9mm carbine, and I don’t have any doubts that it will take the BEB ammo just fine. It’s looking like I will be ordering the Glock later this week. I finally got the opportunity to hold the G17 and 19 at the same time last week, and it only took a few seconds really to decide on the 17. Now, it’s black or OD Green, as the 17 I looked at was OD Green, and I just can’t get it out of my mind.

wingspar · 11-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Took the Camp 9 out today, and loaded 10 rounds in the clip, every other one BEB and FMJ. Couldn’t really tell the difference between the two. I will say tho, I sure don’t remember the gun smoking so much after 10 rounds. Smoke seemed to be coming out from between the stock and the receiver, and out the bottom of the clip. After the last round, I blew into the chamber, and watch the smoke billow out the muzzle.

wingspar · 11-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Well, I’ve only broke the Camp 9 down once, and I’m sure it’s due. I’m still trying to catch up on cleaning everything that has been sitting in the closet for the last 20 years. Pulled the 03-A3 out yesterday, and oh my. I ran out of Hoppe’s 9 yesterday too, and the LGS is out of stock.

Never shot a Glock before, but I won’t be able to say that much longer. It seems like it’s been a long road trying to decide between a G17 and 19, but I placed the order for a G17 this morning, and should have it by the middle of next week.

wingspar · 11-13-2009, 06:40 PM

I’ve seen a lot of videos of breaking the Glock down for cleaning, and where to and where not to lube it. I’ll watch the videos again after I get it, and will go over them and the manual as for when to clean the factory grease off the slides. Lots of opinions out there, but I’ll be ultra careful on the lube and cleaning part.

I’m just getting the plain jane version. No night vision, no RTF. I most likely will not mess with the grips. They felt natural in the store the other day. As for other mods, such as night sights, laser sights, or night lights, that stuff will be down the road if at all. I see no reason to jump into mods till I’ve had the gun for a while. Probably be almost $150 cheaper to get it with night sights new, but $150 is $150, and I don’t really need to be spending the extra money right now.

Even tho I’ve watched a lot of videos on the breaking down of the Glock, and I feel I should be able to jump right into it, I’ll have the guy at the LGS go thru it with me when I pick it up. Got about 300 rounds plus some Gold Dot HP’s, but it might be time to think about ordering some more. When I take it out to shoot, I’ll probably take the Camp 9 along too.

wingspar · 11-13-2009, 07:24 PM

I’m more of a plinker, and not a carrier, so I haven’t given any thought to a holster yet. The case it comes in will work for now. As with the other accessories, a holster is among the “down the road” stuff, tho it will probably be the first that I acquire. So many options, I haven’t a clue as for what I will settle for. Maybe something like this.

As for night sights, the guy at the store says he likes to have his front sight a different color than the rear sights. Makes total sense to me.

11-02-2009, 10:18 PM	#1
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Winchester White Box Again Seems like every time I turn around, I learn something new about 9mm ammo. ordered a box of WWB in 9mm not too long ago. Looks like all the other WWB 9mm ammo I’ve bought. Just took delivery of two more boxes today. I pulled a shell out of the box for the heck of it, and was surprised to see a flat nose bullet. Then I noticed the box said “WinClean” on it. It also says 115 GR. BEB. What is BEB? Is there any other differences between these two bullets? Nothing like a photo to paint the picture I’m describing. WinClean on the left. Dang macro lens shows all the defects. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food --> Last edited by wingspar; 11-03-2009 at 10:29 AM.. Reason: To make a correction.

11-02-2009, 10:35 PM	#2
RandyP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 439	Re: Winchester White Box Again BEB is Brass Enclosed Base...fully encapsulated bullet in other words. From the Winchester website.....gotta luv Google: http://www.winchester.com/products/c...px?symbol=WC93 __________________ Lee Anniversary and Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret, presently reloading .380, 7.62 Nagant (32-20), 9mm and 45ACP Last edited by RandyP; 11-02-2009 at 10:40 PM..

11-02-2009, 10:47 PM	#3
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,158	Re: Winchester White Box Again What really got my attention most on this post is the price tag on the box......OUCH! __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin

11-03-2009, 08:08 AM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,772	Re: Winchester White Box Again Most primer mixtures use lead styphnate as the explosive. So when you fire there is a minute amount of lead dust released into the air. When you make a jacketed bullet, you basically have a cup of copper with lead poured into the cup, and then the bullet is formed into shape under pressure. If you have a jacketed hollow point, or a jacketed soft point, the open mouth of the cup becomes the front of the bullet, with the lead exposed. If you have a full metal jacket, on the other hand, the open mouth of the cup becomes the base of the bullet, so there is lead facing the powder charge. When you fire, the flame from the powder vaporizes a minute amount of the lead base, again putting a tiny bit of lead into the air. When shooting outside, this is of no importance, but when shooting at an indoor range, the lead concentration can get quite heavy, and you are breathing it in. So they came up with "Non-toxic" ammo. They use a different priming mixture, so no lead in the primer, and they completely enclose the bullet in metal, so there is no lead base exposed to the powder's flame. As for the bullet shape, that is called a "truncated cone", and has been found to be more accurate than the old stand-by, "round nose" - at least in 9mm. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

11-03-2009, 09:28 AM	#5
res45 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 182	Re: Winchester White Box Again And if you want to load your own lead safe ammo you can buy TMJ or Total Metal Jacket bullets such as Berry's or Rainier's and use Lead free primer,there a little harder to find and pricey but PMC makes them. Primers http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9016 Bullets http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm http://www.berrysmfg.com/products.aspx?c=58

11-03-2009, 12:57 PM	#7
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: Winchester White Box Again [QUOTE=wingspar;532832]Thanks for the info and the link. Looks like the WinClean BEB bullet has a slight advantage over the FMJ. It’s just that this is the first time I’ve seen a 9mm round shaped like this. That bullet shape is identical to the 9mm bullet used in 357 SIG cartridges

11-09-2009, 09:01 PM	#11
gearchecker Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Winchester White Box Again wingspar, Look at the bottom right corner of the box and you will see the actual product code for the ammo type. For the BEB amm it's WC91XX and for the FMJ it's Q4172 If you find that you like one type over another make sure you buy the amm by the product code. tehn you will always get exactly what you want without having to open the box to see what's in it. My 9mm likes the FMJ ammo the best. It seems to feed smoother with out mis-loading. __________________ I shoot...........Therefore I am. My firearm is an investment on my life. When the time comes that I don't want a new gun, better call the undertaker!

11-10-2009, 11:35 AM	#12
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again I haven’t shot any of this stuff yet, and not sure when I will. I noticed those codes, and will go by those codes the next time I order. Not sure I’ll like one better than the other, but will take notes when I shoot them. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food

11-10-2009, 11:54 AM	#13
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again Well, WWB is all I’ve ever shot in my 9mm carbine, and I don’t have any doubts that it will take the BEB ammo just fine. It’s looking like I will be ordering the Glock later this week. I finally got the opportunity to hold the G17 and 19 at the same time last week, and it only took a few seconds really to decide on the 17. Now, it’s black or OD Green, as the 17 I looked at was OD Green, and I just can’t get it out of my mind. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food

11-12-2009, 10:43 PM	#14
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again Took the Camp 9 out today, and loaded 10 rounds in the clip, every other one BEB and FMJ. Couldn’t really tell the difference between the two. I will say tho, I sure don’t remember the gun smoking so much after 10 rounds. Smoke seemed to be coming out from between the stock and the receiver, and out the bottom of the clip. After the last round, I blew into the chamber, and watch the smoke billow out the muzzle. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food

11-13-2009, 03:38 PM	#15
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again Well, I’ve only broke the Camp 9 down once, and I’m sure it’s due. I’m still trying to catch up on cleaning everything that has been sitting in the closet for the last 20 years. Pulled the 03-A3 out yesterday, and oh my. I ran out of Hoppe’s 9 yesterday too, and the LGS is out of stock. Never shot a Glock before, but I won’t be able to say that much longer. It seems like it’s been a long road trying to decide between a G17 and 19, but I placed the order for a G17 this morning, and should have it by the middle of next week. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food

11-13-2009, 06:40 PM	#16
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again I’ve seen a lot of videos of breaking the Glock down for cleaning, and where to and where not to lube it. I’ll watch the videos again after I get it, and will go over them and the manual as for when to clean the factory grease off the slides. Lots of opinions out there, but I’ll be ultra careful on the lube and cleaning part. I’m just getting the plain jane version. No night vision, no RTF. I most likely will not mess with the grips. They felt natural in the store the other day. As for other mods, such as night sights, laser sights, or night lights, that stuff will be down the road if at all. I see no reason to jump into mods till I’ve had the gun for a while. Probably be almost $150 cheaper to get it with night sights new, but $150 is $150, and I don’t really need to be spending the extra money right now. Even tho I’ve watched a lot of videos on the breaking down of the Glock, and I feel I should be able to jump right into it, I’ll have the guy at the LGS go thru it with me when I pick it up. Got about 300 rounds plus some Gold Dot HP’s, but it might be time to think about ordering some more. When I take it out to shoot, I’ll probably take the Camp 9 along too. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food

11-13-2009, 07:24 PM	#17
wingspar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 479	Re: Winchester White Box Again I’m more of a plinker, and not a carrier, so I haven’t given any thought to a holster yet. The case it comes in will work for now. As with the other accessories, a holster is among the “down the road” stuff, tho it will probably be the first that I acquire. So many options, I haven’t a clue as for what I will settle for. Maybe something like this. As for night sights, the guy at the store says he likes to have his front sight a different color than the rear sights. Makes total sense to me. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food Last edited by wingspar; 11-13-2009 at 07:29 PM..