Help w/Winchester 231 - The Firearms Forum

azleite · 09-08-2009, 08:00 PM

Hi Folks, I'm new here & need some help. I've been reloading for about a year now & have used the Lee 2nd Edition manual as a guide. I only use Winchester 231 for all my pistol loads.It works great. Recently I was told that Winchester powders are now Hodgdon & that 231 & HP38 are the same. Well, over the weekend I loaded up some .38's w/158 gr LSWC bullets. My Lee manual lists 4.0 grs as starting & 4.5 as max. I loaded them at starting(4.0) Today I went to Hodgdon's website & they list their loads for this bullet at 3.1 starting & 3.7 max w/231. Are these going to be safe to shoot out of my Speed Six? Do I need to pull the bullets & start over? Should I ignore the Lee data from now on & trust the powder makers only? In all honesty I've not had any issues with the Lee data thus far when loading for:.45ACP/ 9mm/.38-.357 all w/231 & .223 w/Varget. Thanks for any help-Dave

Lotsdragon · 09-08-2009, 10:31 PM

If it were me I would pull them. No need to stress you gun or your casings if you dont need too, thats just me though I use lite loaded 38's in my 357 anyways. I only depend on the powder recommendations. Most times they are the same but not always.Good luck and be safe.........

jdon72 · 09-09-2009, 12:05 AM

Keep in mind when using lead bullets, you will use a little less charge compared to to jacketed bullets...Was your 4gr load for jacketed and not lead? You may have tooo much pressure for the load but there are always different recipes from different manufactures of powders and bullets.

I use 231 as well as some others and it is a faster burning powder...be careful

gdmoody · 09-09-2009, 12:26 AM

Dave, welcome to the Forum.

Personally, I would leave them alone and shoot them. I just looked at Hornady #7 manual and they show a range of 3.2 to 4.4 grains of Win 231 for a 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter. The Lyman # 49 manual shows the range as 3.6 minimum to 4.0 maximum of Win 231. I think that if you looked at 10 different manuals you would probably get 10 different recommendations!

Oohrah · 09-09-2009, 12:39 AM

Stay with the loading manual data. Even though powder the company has combined with another, if it is Winchester 231, use only that data that is stated for that powder. There may be confusion with the H and IMR powders that are close, but burning rates can differ, and the maximum loads may or may not be safe if your firearm. They may have little or no effects on the lower loadings. You should be fine with the 4.0 grs of 231. Max on the smaller 38 Special case with 155 gr to 160 gr lead is 4.7 to 4.9. The only load listed for .357 Mag with the 231 powder is 90 grain with a start of 8.1 grs and a max of 10.1. This comes from Lyman 49th Edition. The little longer case it recomments other powders, and they may give better results for some reason.

Bindernut · 09-09-2009, 08:06 AM

4.0gr of WW231 with a 158 LSWC on top should be an acceptable load. The Speed-Six is strong enough to stand up to +P .38 Spcl loads and these cast bullet loads shouldn't be too stout.

In addition to the Hornady and Lyman loads that gd posted, Speer has 4.0-4.4gr listed for their WW231 min/max loads.

And yes, HP-38 and WW231 are indeed the same powder.
Hodgdon used to buy it from Olin and rebrand it as HP-38. Hodgdon now owns the Olin plant that used to make it and their other ball (spherical) powders and also the Olin ball powder formulas. Makes for an interesting twist on things, but the end result is the same...HP-38 used to and still does equal WW231.

Snakedriver · 09-09-2009, 08:12 AM

You're good to go with 4.0 gr's. of W231 in a .38 spcl. using a 158 gr. lswc. Shoot'em up and enjoy. I wouldn't be surprised if you find that it's a pretty good formula. Let us know how you like them.

azleite · 09-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Thanks Folks, I got some great info out of this thread-plus ya'all helped calm my fears. I should be able to give a range report Sunday, weather permitting in Poolville-Dave

azleite · 10-04-2009, 06:58 PM

Hi Folks, just a quick range follow up-went to the range & shot 50 rds.of this through my .38 speed six-not so hot accuracy & pretty bad leading.Luckily a guy at the range took the time to show me the effectiveness of a bore snake.I'm sold-I was really dreading that clean up.I pulled the bullets on the other 50 & repowdered them at 3.1 grains.Will see how they shoot.

09-08-2009, 08:00 PM	#1
azleite V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: N. Texas Posts: 70	Help w/Winchester 231 Hi Folks, I'm new here & need some help. I've been reloading for about a year now & have used the Lee 2nd Edition manual as a guide. I only use Winchester 231 for all my pistol loads.It works great. Recently I was told that Winchester powders are now Hodgdon & that 231 & HP38 are the same. Well, over the weekend I loaded up some .38's w/158 gr LSWC bullets. My Lee manual lists 4.0 grs as starting & 4.5 as max. I loaded them at starting(4.0) Today I went to Hodgdon's website & they list their loads for this bullet at 3.1 starting & 3.7 max w/231. Are these going to be safe to shoot out of my Speed Six? Do I need to pull the bullets & start over? Should I ignore the Lee data from now on & trust the powder makers only? In all honesty I've not had any issues with the Lee data thus far when loading for:.45ACP/ 9mm/.38-.357 all w/231 & .223 w/Varget. Thanks for any help-Dave -->

09-08-2009, 10:31 PM	#2
Lotsdragon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Potosi, Mo Posts: 813	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 If it were me I would pull them. No need to stress you gun or your casings if you dont need too, thats just me though I use lite loaded 38's in my 357 anyways. I only depend on the powder recommendations. Most times they are the same but not always.Good luck and be safe......... __________________ "First comes smiles,then lies.Last is gunfire" Roland Deschain

09-09-2009, 12:05 AM	#3
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 Keep in mind when using lead bullets, you will use a little less charge compared to to jacketed bullets...Was your 4gr load for jacketed and not lead? You may have tooo much pressure for the load but there are always different recipes from different manufactures of powders and bullets. I use 231 as well as some others and it is a faster burning powder...be careful

09-09-2009, 12:26 AM	#4
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,347	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 Dave, welcome to the Forum. Personally, I would leave them alone and shoot them. I just looked at Hornady #7 manual and they show a range of 3.2 to 4.4 grains of Win 231 for a 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter. The Lyman # 49 manual shows the range as 3.6 minimum to 4.0 maximum of Win 231. I think that if you looked at 10 different manuals you would probably get 10 different recommendations! __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

09-09-2009, 12:39 AM	#5
Oohrah V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 Stay with the loading manual data. Even though powder the company has combined with another, if it is Winchester 231, use only that data that is stated for that powder. There may be confusion with the H and IMR powders that are close, but burning rates can differ, and the maximum loads may or may not be safe if your firearm. They may have little or no effects on the lower loadings. You should be fine with the 4.0 grs of 231. Max on the smaller 38 Special case with 155 gr to 160 gr lead is 4.7 to 4.9. The only load listed for .357 Mag with the 231 powder is 90 grain with a start of 8.1 grs and a max of 10.1. This comes from Lyman 49th Edition. The little longer case it recomments other powders, and they may give better results for some reason.

09-09-2009, 08:06 AM	#6
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,453	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 4.0gr of WW231 with a 158 LSWC on top should be an acceptable load. The Speed-Six is strong enough to stand up to +P .38 Spcl loads and these cast bullet loads shouldn't be too stout. In addition to the Hornady and Lyman loads that gd posted, Speer has 4.0-4.4gr listed for their WW231 min/max loads. And yes, HP-38 and WW231 are indeed the same powder. Hodgdon used to buy it from Olin and rebrand it as HP-38. Hodgdon now owns the Olin plant that used to make it and their other ball (spherical) powders and also the Olin ball powder formulas. Makes for an interesting twist on things, but the end result is the same...HP-38 used to and still does equal WW231.

09-09-2009, 08:12 AM	#7
Snakedriver Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SW. Florida Posts: 1,219	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 You're good to go with 4.0 gr's. of W231 in a .38 spcl. using a 158 gr. lswc. Shoot'em up and enjoy. I wouldn't be surprised if you find that it's a pretty good formula. Let us know how you like them. __________________ Fear is a reaction..........Courage is a decision

09-09-2009, 12:36 PM	#8
azleite V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: N. Texas Posts: 70	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 Thanks Folks, I got some great info out of this thread-plus ya'all helped calm my fears. I should be able to give a range report Sunday, weather permitting in Poolville-Dave

10-04-2009, 06:58 PM	#9
azleite V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: N. Texas Posts: 70	Re: Help w/Winchester 231 Hi Folks, just a quick range follow up-went to the range & shot 50 rds.of this through my .38 speed six-not so hot accuracy & pretty bad leading.Luckily a guy at the range took the time to show me the effectiveness of a bore snake.I'm sold-I was really dreading that clean up.I pulled the bullets on the other 50 & repowdered them at 3.1 grains.Will see how they shoot.