What do I have here? - The Firearms Forum

JonasE · 05-12-2012, 09:21 AM

Hello, and thank you for taking your time to look at this post

I, or my family, have a really old revolver we don't know anything about. It has been in our extended family for a long time, but changed hands in the early 90's and have been hanging on the wall ever since. There is some engraving/stamped writing on the barrel, but i can't read it because of my bad eyes... Someone helped me out with that a while ago, and it seemed to be in italian? I unfortunally can't remember what he thought it said, and my photos isn't the best, but it would make sense to me if it is italian since the original owner went to italy several times back in the day. It is in rough condition and miss some parts, but seems to be in "ok" condition otherwise.

If some of you could give me any information about this, it would be much appreciated! None of us knows anything about guns, but i'm really interested in history and generally old stuff

Unfortunately this gun is at our cabin at the moment, so I can't get any more or better photos anytime soon.

Alpo · 05-12-2012, 10:28 AM

It's pinfire. That "star over the N' in the top picture, is a Belgian inspector's mark.

That's all I can tell from the pictures.

Ammo, nowadays, is usually rimfire (where the priming mixture is inside the hollow rim of the cartridge, and is squished between the hammer nose and the edge of the chamber, to fire it) or centerfire (where the primer is a separate thing in the center of the case head, and is struck with the firing pin). Pin-fire is an obsolete system, where the primer was inside the case, in the gunpowder, there was a rod sticking out of the case, and the hammer struck the rod (the pin) which in turn hit the primer.

That's the reason for the slots in the back edge of they cylinder - to let the pin stick out.

hrf · 05-12-2012, 11:12 AM

Welcome to the forum Jonas.

As Alpo lists, it's a pocket size Belgian proofed pinfire, and it is missing the folding trigger.

Can you take better photos of the inscription that wraps around the cylinder, or copy and post what it reads?

JonasE · 05-12-2012, 11:29 AM

Thanks alot, Alpo! I had no idea that pinfire bullets even existed, and have never heard of it or guns that use it before

Was this kind of guns popular, produced in great numbers, widely available, and nice to fire? And in what general time-period was it used?

I really wish i could tell you more about the inscription, hrf, but i do not have the gun at hand right now... Same goes with more/better photos, but the next time i'm at our cabin i'll do a better job and give you all the info you need

Is there something in particular you would want to see closeups of, besides the inscription?

deadin · 05-12-2012, 11:59 AM

Pin fire is one of the earliest forms of self contained cartridges. They were made from around the American Civil War (1860's or so) They were never very popular in the U.S. but quite common in Europe. I'm not sure just when they finally went obsolete but I have a catalog from 1911 was still is offering them.
Your gun is also missing the extractor/ejector rod (Although the expended round could be picked out by the pin). It also appears that it may be missing the cylinder axis pin. I can't quite see if it is there or not.

JonasE · 05-12-2012, 12:22 PM

I read up on it at wikipedia just now, and it seems like its golden era was mid 1850 to 1890. It also seems to be mostly a european thing, wich makes sense.

Looks alot like this, doesn't it? except from the grip? I'm dying to find out about the inscription now! :O

As I now know more about this gun, it made it much easier for me to search the forums for pinfire-themed threads. I have alot of hours of reading now, and thank you all for guiding me to it!

deadin · 05-12-2012, 12:43 PM

Here are a couple that will keep you busy for quite a while........

http://www.littlegun.info/

http://www.horstheld.com/

RJay · 05-12-2012, 01:09 PM

And now for some not so good news. Except for certain guns and makers, these guns do not have a high value factor. The one shown , because it is missing so many unattainable parts has a very low value, perhaps 25 to 35 dollars.

AaronN322 · 05-12-2012, 07:22 PM

JonasE

Here is an image of a similar gun. This one does not have the folding trigger though:

I believe your inscription says: THE GUARDIAN AMERICAN MODEL OF 1878 which was a marketing trademark that Charles Clement registered in Liege, Belgium on 27 Dec 1880. It would have been made sometime 1881 or after and these were sold all around the world.

JonasE · 05-13-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJay

And now for some not so good news. Except for certain guns and makers, these guns do not have a high value factor. The one shown , because it is missing so many unattainable parts has a very low value, perhaps 25 to 35 dollars.

This does not matter at all, the history of this gun is worth much more than $

05-12-2012, 09:21 AM	#1
JonasE Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway Posts: 4	What do I have here? Hello, and thank you for taking your time to look at this post I, or my family, have a really old revolver we don't know anything about. It has been in our extended family for a long time, but changed hands in the early 90's and have been hanging on the wall ever since. There is some engraving/stamped writing on the barrel, but i can't read it because of my bad eyes... Someone helped me out with that a while ago, and it seemed to be in italian? I unfortunally can't remember what he thought it said, and my photos isn't the best, but it would make sense to me if it is italian since the original owner went to italy several times back in the day. It is in rough condition and miss some parts, but seems to be in "ok" condition otherwise. If some of you could give me any information about this, it would be much appreciated! None of us knows anything about guns, but i'm really interested in history and generally old stuff Unfortunately this gun is at our cabin at the moment, so I can't get any more or better photos anytime soon. -->

05-12-2012, 10:28 AM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,661	Re: What do I have here? It's pinfire. That "star over the N' in the top picture, is a Belgian inspector's mark. That's all I can tell from the pictures. Ammo, nowadays, is usually rimfire (where the priming mixture is inside the hollow rim of the cartridge, and is squished between the hammer nose and the edge of the chamber, to fire it) or centerfire (where the primer is a separate thing in the center of the case head, and is struck with the firing pin). Pin-fire is an obsolete system, where the primer was inside the case, in the gunpowder, there was a rod sticking out of the case, and the hammer struck the rod (the pin) which in turn hit the primer. That's the reason for the slots in the back edge of they cylinder - to let the pin stick out. Attached Images __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

05-12-2012, 11:12 AM	#3
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,277	Re: What do I have here? Welcome to the forum Jonas. As Alpo lists, it's a pocket size Belgian proofed pinfire, and it is missing the folding trigger. Can you take better photos of the inscription that wraps around the cylinder, or copy and post what it reads?

05-12-2012, 11:29 AM	#4
JonasE Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway Posts: 4	Re: What do I have here? Thanks alot, Alpo! I had no idea that pinfire bullets even existed, and have never heard of it or guns that use it before Was this kind of guns popular, produced in great numbers, widely available, and nice to fire? And in what general time-period was it used? I really wish i could tell you more about the inscription, hrf, but i do not have the gun at hand right now... Same goes with more/better photos, but the next time i'm at our cabin i'll do a better job and give you all the info you need Is there something in particular you would want to see closeups of, besides the inscription?

05-12-2012, 11:59 AM	#5
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: What do I have here? Pin fire is one of the earliest forms of self contained cartridges. They were made from around the American Civil War (1860's or so) They were never very popular in the U.S. but quite common in Europe. I'm not sure just when they finally went obsolete but I have a catalog from 1911 was still is offering them. Your gun is also missing the extractor/ejector rod (Although the expended round could be picked out by the pin). It also appears that it may be missing the cylinder axis pin. I can't quite see if it is there or not.

05-12-2012, 12:22 PM	#6
JonasE Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Norway Posts: 4	Re: What do I have here? I read up on it at wikipedia just now, and it seems like its golden era was mid 1850 to 1890. It also seems to be mostly a european thing, wich makes sense. Looks alot like this, doesn't it? except from the grip? I'm dying to find out about the inscription now! :O As I now know more about this gun, it made it much easier for me to search the forums for pinfire-themed threads. I have alot of hours of reading now, and thank you all for guiding me to it! Last edited by JonasE; 05-12-2012 at 12:35 PM..

05-12-2012, 12:43 PM	#7
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: What do I have here? Here are a couple that will keep you busy for quite a while........ http://www.littlegun.info/ http://www.horstheld.com/

05-12-2012, 01:09 PM	#8
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: What do I have here? And now for some not so good news. Except for certain guns and makers, these guns do not have a high value factor. The one shown , because it is missing so many unattainable parts has a very low value, perhaps 25 to 35 dollars. __________________ RonJames

05-12-2012, 07:22 PM	#9
AaronN322 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29	Re: What do I have here? JonasE Here is an image of a similar gun. This one does not have the folding trigger though: I believe your inscription says: THE GUARDIAN AMERICAN MODEL OF 1878 which was a marketing trademark that Charles Clement registered in Liege, Belgium on 27 Dec 1880. It would have been made sometime 1881 or after and these were sold all around the world. __________________ www.FreeMyCollection.com <- My website with articles, images and research dedicated to the things I collect.