A spiritual pet peeve.

[RunningOnMT]

I suppose it is wrong to be critical of the sincere and scripturally sound prayers of another, but there are a few habits of some pastors that seems so inappropriate that I find it distracting from a prayerful state of mind. I listen to sermons on line from several pastors whose preaching I admire and whose theology I respect, but I have been aware of them practicing these habits and wanted to see what you all thought.

The first is, referring to God in the third person while praying. I find this odd. I mean you are praying to God but speaking about God as if he were someone else. The point I'm trying to make is kind of hard to explain but let me try this example. Say you go to Joe and ask, "When you, Sally, and Mike went to the store, did you buy some tomatoes?" You wouldn't say "When Joe, Sally, and Mike went to the store, did they buy some tomatoes?"

Then there is a second one whch is closely related and that is saying something like "Let us pray" or "Please bow your heads" then rehashing the sermon you just gave to your audience. When you pray, you shouldn't be speaking to the congregation, you should be praying to God on behalf of or in agreement with the congregation.

Does anyone else find these things annoying or am I being too critical?

[jack404]

Sadly it is annoying , and maybe yeah a bit to the last ,

but the really sad part is the reliance on these practises , the doctrine , the wrot ways of many clergy , but at the same time it is not entertainment or to please all

i've attended some of the all singing all dancing places , some are fine , but the leaders of a few , sheeesh drill them mongrels

they give charlatanism a bad name

I'm reminded of a story told by Smith Wiggleworth about a dream

a man deep in the bowls of hell , running back and forth to each poll and lifting the floating heads up to peer anxiously at the appearing face only to throw it down and onto the next to repeat this to all the millions of souls damned in the pit

a newly promoted demon asked old nick , "Master what does this slave do ?"

old nick smirked and said "him ? he looks for the one who lead him here.."

The demon asks back " Master , was it a drug dealer , ? a politician? a teacher or new age movement leader ??"

old nick smiled widely and smirked "no, his preacher "

look if they be preaching it right ( Christs message ) , but boring your butt to tears , have patience .. it'll do you good ,
thats said if you aint getting the message raise it , politely , honestly , but polite..

if it aint teaching it right , raise it . or find where they are teaching it right

if its that worrysome do find where your comfy , but remember sometimes you gotta be a bit outside your comfort zone to really comprehend .. but when and where is for you to know

cheers and good luck eh

you should be able to raise anything like this with your preacher/pastor /priest etc ..

[Alpo]

I was in the high school band. At all football games, they started with a prayer.

I had a couple of problems with that. I know there were at least two Jewish kids in the band, so logically there were Jews in the stands. But we never had a Rabbi pray. And all the prayers seemed to end "In Christ's Name we pray". I bet the Jews liked that.

We had about 7 Catholic churches in my town. It seems we should have had Catholics on the team, and in the band and in the stands. Never had a Priest up there to pray. Always a Protestant.

Our school team was the Tornadoes, and the school motto was "This is Tornado Country".

So one prayer, and I graduated in '73, so this was a long time ago, so for it to stick in my memory I had to think it was pretty bad. This one moron ended his prayer with, "And remember, Lord, that this is Tornado Territory".

WHAT!?!?!?!?!

Don't know which pissed me off more. Him telling God what to do. Him putting it in the prayer at all. Or his screwing up the name. Shoulda been "country", not "territory".

[Model195Fan]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Does anyone else find these things annoying or am I being too critical?

You are right, but it is ordinarily not possible to judge the intentions of those who are annoying you. Better to say it here than anyplace else.

[ampaterry]

I don't care for that either, ROMT.

[Alpo]

How about this one? The constant repetition of "God".

Dear God, we would like you, God, to help us, God, to be better people God,and to lead us, God, into the paths of righteousness, God..."

I used to, to amuse myself, count how many times some Preacher would say God in a prayer. The record is a guy (Baptist, which did not surprise me in the least) that prayed for five minutes and said "God" 114 times.

That does not count "Our Heavenly Father", which is how he started, or "In Christ's name we pray", which is how he ended. Just the word "God".

[BlackEagle]

After all, prayer is talking with God. I don't say him or her when referring to the person I'm talking to. It may be appropriate in some circumsances to start a conversation with "Let us speak together" but it's not the normal procedure in conversations. I just begin speaking.

"Our Father, who art in Heaven, Hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come..." Christ taught us to pray to God in second person, not third person.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by Alpo

How about this one? The constant repetition of "God".

Dear God, we would like you, God, to help us, God, to be better people God,and to lead us, God, into the paths of righteousness, God..."

I used to, to amuse myself, count how many times some Preacher would say God in a prayer. The record is a guy (Baptist, which did not surprise me in the least) that prayed for five minutes and said "God" 114 times.

That does not count "Our Heavenly Father", which is how he started, or "In Christ's name we pray", which is how he ended. Just the word "God".

Yep..Sometimes they'll change it up from Father God to Lord God then back again, but they say God in some form in every sentence. Someone should teach these guys the K.I.S.S. method. God isn't impressed with how many times his name is said or how repititious your prayers are.

[Bobitis]

Can someone give me an example of a 3rd person prayer?

I can't seem to comprehend it.

Thanks.

[raven818]

We are not amused, if you're referring to yourself.

Nothing comes to mind regarding a prayer in which God would be spoken of/to in a 3rd person sense. Normally, 3rd person would refer to the person speaking of them self.

Maybe somebody else?

[RunningOnMT]

I might have misused the term "third person". I'm not sure, english was never my strong suit. Then again neither were math, history, or science. I did however excell at recess.

Here's what I meant though, and you can label it however you want. Have you ever heard a preacher supposedly praying to God, but within that prayer speak of God as if he were a different person from the one being prayed to?
An example might be something like this:

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells of God's love for His people........................................

Notice "Heavenly Father" is who is being addressed. Now within that address God is mentioned as if He is a person other than the one who is being addressed? Maybe you haven't heard this but many preachers do it and to me it reveals an almost insincere tone, as if one is addressing the audience rather than God.

Using the above example of the beginning of a prayer, I think a pastor would correctly say:

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells us of your love for your people.
Kind of an awkward example, but I hope you get my point.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

I might have misused the term "third person". I'm not sure, english was never my strong suit. Then again neither were math, history, or science. I did however excell at recess.

Here's what I meant though, and you can label it however you want. Have you ever heard a preacher supposedly praying to God, but within that prayer speak of God as if he were a different person from the one being prayed to?
An example might be something like this:

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells of God's love for His people........................................

Notice "Heavenly Father" is who is being addressed. Now within that address God is mentioned as if He is a person other than the one who is being addressed? Maybe you haven't heard this but many preachers do it and to me it reveals an almost insincere tone, as if one is addressing the audience rather than God.

Using the above example of the beginning of a prayer, I think a pastor would correctly say:

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells us of your love for your people.
Kind of an awkward example, but I hope you get my point.

That looks to be an interesting analogy, but I'm having a hard time distinguishing the two.

Once you acknowledge God, why prattle about his/her/its mention down the road?

I do agree that praying about the same thing mentioned in a sermon is nothing more than merely regurtation. Asking to bow in the name of prayer doesn't convey that meaning to me.

I guess I'd have to be there.

[raven818]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells of God's love for His people........................................

Notice "Heavenly Father" is who is being addressed. Now within that address God is mentioned as if He is a person other than the one who is being addressed? Maybe you haven't heard this but many preachers do it and to me it reveals an almost insincere tone, as if one is addressing the audience rather than God.

Using the above example of the beginning of a prayer, I think a pastor would correctly say:

Heavenly Father, We thank you for your word that tells us of your love for your people.
Kind of an awkward example, but I hope you get my point.

How about temporarily changing names, in order to better explain?

Name is..

Raymond J. Johnson Jr.

You can call me Ray,
or you can call me Jay,
or you can call me R.J,
or you can call me R.J.J,
or you can call me R.J.J. Jr.
But you doesn't have to call me Johnson!

I don't think it matters how anyone calls on Him, as long as they do.

[tcox4freedom]

Sometimes it is the person praying to God. Sometimes it is the "Spirit" that is praying through us.

Our goal should be total submission the the Holy Spirit as we pray. It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to know how we should pray in ourselves. By submitting ourselves to the Holy Spirit we are assured that we are praying in the way God has laid out to insure our prayers will not be in vain.

Whether our prayers be lifted up in the language of angels or prayer is done in our understanding, ALL prayer needs to be done in COMPLETE submission to the Holy Spirit.

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