Lead vs. jacketed bullets? - The Firearms Forum

emvbva81 · 02-05-2011, 10:57 AM

I have purchased a Ruger .45 Blackhawk and would like to reload. With very little experience reloading pistol cartridges, my question is: disregarding price and using published load parameters, is there any difference using lead or jacketed bullets?

carver · 02-05-2011, 11:08 AM

Not much. You can push a jacked bullet to faster speeds without danger of leading the barrel. Some lead bullets are hard enough to push fast too. What are your goals with reloading your own ammo? Some reload to save money, some reload to hunt, some just for target practice. Most of us shoot lead no faster than 1,000 feet per second, and some of us won't go past 850 feet per second.

JLA · 02-05-2011, 03:27 PM

Unless you plan to go hot with the .45 colt cartridge. plain ol cheap lead will serve you well. Matt Dardas can hook you up.

http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5...gory_Code=45RN

emvbva81 · 02-05-2011, 03:40 PM

I am looking to reload primarily to save money, however, I do enjoy reloading. What I don't know is, for occasional weekend shooting, is one (lead or jacketed) better or worse for the barrel (assuming a routine brush and patch cleaning after each outing)?
With the same bullet design (round nose-flat point) does it matter for the life of the barrel?
Using published load parameters, is there a difference (the art of reloading) in loading one (lead or jacketed) over the other?
Thanks for the help.

ozo · 02-05-2011, 03:45 PM

850 fps for me........generally.
That being said, on store bought lead projectiles.
If you cast your own you can 'harden' the mix to whatever you wish, basically.
More tin etc. for bumpin up the speed.....although my favorite all-around 'mix'
is simply lead from regular car/truck batteries.
Are you gonna cap them is also criteria. Some have told me caps don't matter,
but I think, to a degree, as they pass thru after the lead, they help keep some of
the lead from sticking in the barrel. A self cleaner, if you will.
Car battery lead I have no problem @ 1000fps - with a cap, even without.
Caps are a pain to mess with.

JLA · 02-05-2011, 08:04 PM

the 'caps' ozo mentioned are known properly as gaschecks....

And yes, casting your own is THE BEST way to reload for less. I use wheel weight (WW) alloy purchased from local tire shops to make my boolits. I find WW alloy to be sufficient for shooting in handguns up to 1500 fps and rifles up to 2000 fps (with gaschecks on the latter of course) and assuming the bullets are sized properly for the bore and lubed with a quality bullet lube (I make my own boolit lube as well).

It costs me around 7 bucks to put together a box (100 rounds) of .44 magnums loaded with my own 240 gr RN castings, and they are more accurate than anything factory I have tried...

JLA · 02-05-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emvbva81

I am looking to reload primarily to save money, however, I do enjoy reloading. What I don't know is, for occasional weekend shooting, is one (lead or jacketed) better or worse for the barrel (assuming a routine brush and patch cleaning after each outing)?
With the same bullet design (round nose-flat point) does it matter for the life of the barrel?
Using published load parameters, is there a difference (the art of reloading) in loading one (lead or jacketed) over the other?
Thanks for the help.

Lead is by far less stressful on the bore of a firearm. Over time jacketed bullets will smooth out the rifling grooves in a bore and deteriorate accuracy (it takes a few thousand rounds) Lead, even hardcast, is nowhere near as hard as a bullet jacket. Thus barrels fed a steady dies of lead ammo will last just about forever. How many old .22s do you find with fantastic bores??? Thats because .22 ammo is soft lead or plated lead, not jacketed...

woolleyworm · 02-05-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

Lead is by far less stressful on the bore of a firearm. Over time jacketed bullets will smooth out the rifling grooves in a bore and deteriorate accuracy (it takes a few thousand rounds) Lead, even hardcast, is nowhere near as hard as a bullet jacket. Thus barrels fed a steady dies of lead ammo will last just about forever. How many old .22s do you find with fantastic bores??? Thats because .22 ammo is soft lead or plated lead, not jacketed...

took the words right out of my fingers....

redwing carson · 02-06-2011, 12:42 AM

JLA said it all, he is right on. I drive bullets poured from linotype and gas checked up to 2,200 FPS with out a problem. These loads fired mostly in 30-30 rifles. I have taken Elk, Deer, and Antelope with cast bullets. These were all taken with cast lead in a 4" S&W Mdl. 29. The WW metal works for most plinking and hunting. And besides casting is also a fun hobby.

RC

tech16024 · 02-06-2011, 12:46 PM

I've seen unserviceable flack jackets melted down and rounds dipped in the melted kevlar - what does that do to the barrel?

Oti-1 · 02-09-2011, 09:10 AM

I have been shooting Oregon trail LRN 230 exclusively in my colt 1911 and my fnp tactical. Also a buddies p 220. It is the least expensive option for sure. Shoots very well. And safer than fmj's for deflection off rocks or sign posts. However, since my fnp exploded, I've been asking around to see if lead is the right choice. Doug and old reloading guru in my area said he would never ever pull his lever with lead in the chamber. This came as a great disappointment to me. But as I thought about the cleaning process on my guns after shooting I understood. I have to clean my barrels for no less than an hour after The lead build up in the first inch of the lands is almost filled to the rifleing. I use sweets, kroil, Otis bore cleaner a tiny pick, twelve large patches and a 50 cal brush. I almost never have the patients to get the barrels looking factory. Plenty clean, but I can still see small signs of build up.

So for the clenliness factor I will be switching to Montana gold. 20 $ more per 500 box. It may be worth the saved cleaning time.

JLA · 02-09-2011, 04:36 PM

properly sized and lubed lead bullets wont lead the bore...

dammitman · 02-09-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech16024

I've seen unserviceable flack jackets melted down and rounds dipped in the melted kevlar - what does that do to the barrel?

really?

tech16024 · 02-09-2011, 09:23 PM

yeah, a fellow Marine was doing it years ago I only shot a few rounds they looked like "black talons??" if I remember right a flat black looking round

Oti-1 · 02-10-2011, 11:14 AM

Jla. What brand do you recommend and what method of lube? I've been using Oregon trail 230 grn round nose They have two wax rings at the base.

JLA · 02-10-2011, 08:00 PM

I cast my own and size them to fit the bore plus .001", my lube recipe is also my own and is made using SBGO, beeswax and carnauba wax.. I dont get lead as long as I dont push the bullets beyond thier capabilities. They have no problem running 1200 from a .44 magnum without leading...

As far as commercial cast, I prefer in this order, Dardas cast bullets, Missouri bullets, then oregon trail...

The dardas and missouri bullets are equals IMO and both are half the price of the oregon trail bullets.

Compare these 3 links to the .452" 230 gr RN from each mfgr...

http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5...gory_Code=45RN

http://www.missouribullet.com/detail...y=13&keywords=

http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html

Note how 'THE SAME' they all are by design, and how different the prices are between Dardas/Missouri and oregon trail...

steve4102 · 02-10-2011, 10:28 PM

Hey Josh, That damn bug finally got the best of me. It took me three shots with my 40, but I finally killed the little bastard. Now all I need to do it go buy a new Monitor. Thanks!

OH crap. he's still there!

JohnTheCalifornian · 02-11-2011, 09:07 PM

All this talk about lead bullets and Im starting to get an itch for casting my own...............

JLA · 02-11-2011, 09:25 PM

its a hobby that is very worthwhile john. I highly recommend it.

Sorry about the monitor steve, I have some stick figure porn I could stick up there

Kestral · 08-05-2011, 04:37 PM

I would like to use the type of bullet lube such as Dardas Blue, Are there any similar makes that can be used in the LYMAN 450 Lubersizer.

JLA · 08-05-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kestral

I would like to use the type of bullet lube such as Dardas Blue, Are there any similar makes that can be used in the LYMAN 450 Lubersizer.

Hey Kes, PM me your mailbox and ill send you a hollow stick or 2 of my own formulation. I find it better than ANYTHING you can buy, which is a tall claim I know, but I have tried them all just about..

My lube is fairly stiff and if you live in a colder clime you will probably need a heater. It works great for me here in hell, I mean Texas, without a heater.

The Duke · 08-05-2011, 05:06 PM

Gone forever are the days when I could go by a couple service stations and be given enough wheelweight to cast enough boolits to last for several months. In those days, they were happy to get rid of the things... Now they charge up to $50 a bucket..

JLA · 08-05-2011, 05:41 PM

Yup. I pay 50 a bucket from a local truck tire shop. Eddie, the shop foreman is a good friend of mine and sorts me out a bucket full of the big truck weights, each weighing almost a pound by themselves. Last bucket I bought was mounded over and couldnt fit a single weight more. they had to load it into my little ranger with a forklift. There were 320 truck balance weights in it. I spent 2 days smelting and fluxing and pouring it into ingots, then another 2 days alloying it 9 to 1 with some pure Linotype ive had for years. I ended up with about 340 pounds of alloy equivalent to Lyman #2 from that 1 bucket. So even though it isnt free anymore, with a little work, it ends up well worth the money and time spent..

myfriendis410 · 08-06-2011, 11:20 AM

I'll chime in on casting for your guns. It is not only more economical but it provides a better understanding of the whole process. (Assuming one is looking for the most accuracy/velocity available) I cast range lead for my .45 acp and it's basically cheaper than shooting a .22.

Unfortunately for me; California outlawed common wheelweights so my source is gone. I am husbanding what I have to load in the Sharps. Down to about 400 lbs.

02-05-2011, 10:57 AM	#1
emvbva81 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 2	Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I have purchased a Ruger .45 Blackhawk and would like to reload. With very little experience reloading pistol cartridges, my question is: disregarding price and using published load parameters, is there any difference using lead or jacketed bullets? -->

02-05-2011, 03:27 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Unless you plan to go hot with the .45 colt cartridge. plain ol cheap lead will serve you well. Matt Dardas can hook you up. http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5...gory_Code=45RN __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-05-2011, 03:40 PM	#4
emvbva81 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 2	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I am looking to reload primarily to save money, however, I do enjoy reloading. What I don't know is, for occasional weekend shooting, is one (lead or jacketed) better or worse for the barrel (assuming a routine brush and patch cleaning after each outing)? With the same bullet design (round nose-flat point) does it matter for the life of the barrel? Using published load parameters, is there a difference (the art of reloading) in loading one (lead or jacketed) over the other? Thanks for the help.

02-05-2011, 03:45 PM	#5
ozo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 2,770	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? 850 fps for me........generally. That being said, on store bought lead projectiles. If you cast your own you can 'harden' the mix to whatever you wish, basically. More tin etc. for bumpin up the speed.....although my favorite all-around 'mix' is simply lead from regular car/truck batteries. Are you gonna cap them is also criteria. Some have told me caps don't matter, but I think, to a degree, as they pass thru after the lead, they help keep some of the lead from sticking in the barrel. A self cleaner, if you will. Car battery lead I have no problem @ 1000fps - with a cap, even without. Caps are a pain to mess with. __________________ http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews, "ozo. you're off your rocker sir." -johnlives4christ http://www.prisonplanet.com/ -America,Bless GOD-

02-05-2011, 08:04 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? the 'caps' ozo mentioned are known properly as gaschecks.... And yes, casting your own is THE BEST way to reload for less. I use wheel weight (WW) alloy purchased from local tire shops to make my boolits. I find WW alloy to be sufficient for shooting in handguns up to 1500 fps and rifles up to 2000 fps (with gaschecks on the latter of course) and assuming the bullets are sized properly for the bore and lubed with a quality bullet lube (I make my own boolit lube as well). It costs me around 7 bucks to put together a box (100 rounds) of .44 magnums loaded with my own 240 gr RN castings, and they are more accurate than anything factory I have tried... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-05-2011, 11:08 AM	#2
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,251	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Not much. You can push a jacked bullet to faster speeds without danger of leading the barrel. Some lead bullets are hard enough to push fast too. What are your goals with reloading your own ammo? Some reload to save money, some reload to hunt, some just for target practice. Most of us shoot lead no faster than 1,000 feet per second, and some of us won't go past 850 feet per second. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

02-06-2011, 12:42 AM	#9
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? JLA said it all, he is right on. I drive bullets poured from linotype and gas checked up to 2,200 FPS with out a problem. These loads fired mostly in 30-30 rifles. I have taken Elk, Deer, and Antelope with cast bullets. These were all taken with cast lead in a 4" S&W Mdl. 29. The WW metal works for most plinking and hunting. And besides casting is also a fun hobby. RC

02-06-2011, 12:46 PM	#10
tech16024 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 93	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I've seen unserviceable flack jackets melted down and rounds dipped in the melted kevlar - what does that do to the barrel?

02-09-2011, 09:10 AM	#11
Oti-1 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 16	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I have been shooting Oregon trail LRN 230 exclusively in my colt 1911 and my fnp tactical. Also a buddies p 220. It is the least expensive option for sure. Shoots very well. And safer than fmj's for deflection off rocks or sign posts. However, since my fnp exploded, I've been asking around to see if lead is the right choice. Doug and old reloading guru in my area said he would never ever pull his lever with lead in the chamber. This came as a great disappointment to me. But as I thought about the cleaning process on my guns after shooting I understood. I have to clean my barrels for no less than an hour after The lead build up in the first inch of the lands is almost filled to the rifleing. I use sweets, kroil, Otis bore cleaner a tiny pick, twelve large patches and a 50 cal brush. I almost never have the patients to get the barrels looking factory. Plenty clean, but I can still see small signs of build up. So for the clenliness factor I will be switching to Montana gold. 20 $ more per 500 box. It may be worth the saved cleaning time.

02-09-2011, 04:36 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? properly sized and lubed lead bullets wont lead the bore... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-09-2011, 09:23 PM	#14
tech16024 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 93	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? yeah, a fellow Marine was doing it years ago I only shot a few rounds they looked like "black talons??" if I remember right a flat black looking round

02-10-2011, 11:14 AM	#15
Oti-1 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 16	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Jla. What brand do you recommend and what method of lube? I've been using Oregon trail 230 grn round nose They have two wax rings at the base.

02-10-2011, 08:00 PM	#16
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I cast my own and size them to fit the bore plus .001", my lube recipe is also my own and is made using SBGO, beeswax and carnauba wax.. I dont get lead as long as I dont push the bullets beyond thier capabilities. They have no problem running 1200 from a .44 magnum without leading... As far as commercial cast, I prefer in this order, Dardas cast bullets, Missouri bullets, then oregon trail... The dardas and missouri bullets are equals IMO and both are half the price of the oregon trail bullets. Compare these 3 links to the .452" 230 gr RN from each mfgr... http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5...gory_Code=45RN http://www.missouribullet.com/detail...y=13&keywords= http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html Note how 'THE SAME' they all are by design, and how different the prices are between Dardas/Missouri and oregon trail... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

02-10-2011, 10:28 PM	#17
steve4102 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota Contributor Posts: 2,760	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Hey Josh, That damn bug finally got the best of me. It took me three shots with my 40, but I finally killed the little bastard. Now all I need to do it go buy a new Monitor. Thanks! OH crap. he's still there! Last edited by steve4102; 02-10-2011 at 10:50 PM..

02-11-2011, 09:07 PM	#18
JohnTheCalifornian V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 431	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? All this talk about lead bullets and Im starting to get an itch for casting my own............... __________________ Im not a complete idiot.... parts are missing

02-11-2011, 09:25 PM	#19
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? its a hobby that is very worthwhile john. I highly recommend it. Sorry about the monitor steve, I have some stick figure porn I could stick up there __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-05-2011, 04:37 PM	#20
Kestral V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Guernsey Channel Islands Posts: 355	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I would like to use the type of bullet lube such as Dardas Blue, Are there any similar makes that can be used in the LYMAN 450 Lubersizer.

08-05-2011, 05:06 PM	#22
The Duke Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NW Louisiana Posts: 813	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Gone forever are the days when I could go by a couple service stations and be given enough wheelweight to cast enough boolits to last for several months. In those days, they were happy to get rid of the things... Now they charge up to $50 a bucket..

08-05-2011, 05:41 PM	#23
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? Yup. I pay 50 a bucket from a local truck tire shop. Eddie, the shop foreman is a good friend of mine and sorts me out a bucket full of the big truck weights, each weighing almost a pound by themselves. Last bucket I bought was mounded over and couldnt fit a single weight more. they had to load it into my little ranger with a forklift. There were 320 truck balance weights in it. I spent 2 days smelting and fluxing and pouring it into ingots, then another 2 days alloying it 9 to 1 with some pure Linotype ive had for years. I ended up with about 340 pounds of alloy equivalent to Lyman #2 from that 1 bucket. So even though it isnt free anymore, with a little work, it ends up well worth the money and time spent.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-06-2011, 11:20 AM	#24
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 542	Re: Lead vs. jacketed bullets? I'll chime in on casting for your guns. It is not only more economical but it provides a better understanding of the whole process. (Assuming one is looking for the most accuracy/velocity available) I cast range lead for my .45 acp and it's basically cheaper than shooting a .22. Unfortunately for me; California outlawed common wheelweights so my source is gone. I am husbanding what I have to load in the Sharps. Down to about 400 lbs. __________________ Life's too short to shoot an ugly gun.....