Spanish Semi-auto information - The Firearms Forum

Sir Bug · 06-03-2003, 09:53 PM

I have a semi-auto pistol with "Made in Spain" on the left rear portion of the frame. On the slide is written "Pistol Automatic Cal 765. It has a 2 5/8" bbl., a 6 + 1 ammo capacity. Several of the internal parts, barrel and clip have the number 19 stamped on them. It has a hard brown molded holster with a clip pouch on the back side and a strap that goes over the butt and slides onto a brass pin to hold the weapon in place. There is no belt loop or belt clip; it appears to be a pocket holster.

Can you tell me who manufactured this weapon and when? The serial # is 11XXX. Also, is there a schematic or break-down description available?

The weapon is in good condition. With all parts original, including the holster. what value should I put on it for insurance purposes?

Thank you,

Sir Bug

Smokin Guns · 06-03-2003, 09:57 PM

Welcome to ya Sir Bug!...I ain't got the answer yer lookin' for, but I reckon the peoples that do will be here shortly!...

CountryGunsmith · 06-03-2003, 11:59 PM

Are there any other markings at all, including on the grips?

Sir Bug · 06-04-2003, 07:11 AM

There are no other markings that I can find. I have done a simple field strip of the weapon; removed the grips, barrel, mainspring and safety lever. I find only the info provided. It may be important that all parts have the number 19 stamped on them, possibly a model number for the weapon.

FYI, the grips are wood.

Sir Bug

Xracer · 06-04-2003, 07:12 AM

Even better still, can you post a picture?

Sir Bug · 06-04-2003, 07:21 AM

Xracer,

I do not have the capability to post a picture at this time. If all else fails, I shall make arrangements to do so.

Thank you,

Sir Bug

CountryGunsmith · 06-04-2003, 07:25 AM

Well, I'm sure it is a Ruby-pattern pistol, just need to determine the maker.

I believe you will find that 19 corresponds with the last two digits of the serial number. These pistols, by any maker, did not have model numbers.

There were over a hundred small manufacturers of this type pistol in the Eibar region of Spain in the early 1900's, but after the Spanish civil war only a few were allowed to remain in production under the new regime.

If you look really closely to the exterior of the frame you WILL find proofmarks. One may look like a small lion, another may look like a peace sign. Most important will be a single letter or single letter plus a number, with a star over them.

It is not terribly unusual to encounter one of these that is unmarked as to maker. Even so, they were required under Spanish law to be proofed.

A picture would help tremendously. If you have access to a digital camera, use the attach file feature when you post.

Typical Ruby-pattern pistol will not exceed $200 in mint condition.

Sir Bug · 06-04-2003, 07:51 AM

Xracer,

I have inspected the frame under a lighted magnifying glass. There are NO proofmarks that I can find. The frame is in good enough condition that a proofmark would be readily seen - no rust, grinding or excessive sanding.

The last two digits of the serial number, 67, do not correspond with the number 19 that is stamped on the individual pieces.

I mentioned that I had done a simple field stripping of the weapon. I have been unable, however, to figure out how to remove the slide. In either case, I don't think removing the slide will produce the proofmark as the entire frame can be examined with it intact.

Thank you for your patience in helping me with this.

Sir Bug

Xracer · 06-05-2003, 09:38 AM

I agree with Doc that there's about a 99% chance that this is a Ruby or Ruby pattern pistol.

Many, many thousands of these were made for both the French military and the civilian market.

There were many dozens (if not hundreds, as Doc says) of small gunmakers turning these out in the Eibar region of Spain from WWI up until the 1930's......and a few after that until the '40's.

With the absence of a maker's name on the pistol, it will probably be impossible to tell which one of the many Eibar gunmakers made your particular pistol.

It could be that the "19" is an assembly number.

Doc is our expert on values.....so I'll go with what he says.

Sir Bug · 06-05-2003, 09:58 AM

Hi Gang,

I want to thank y'all for your input.

If this is a "Ruby-style" pistol, can anyone explain how to remove the slide? It certainly doesn't come off like a Colt.

Also, can anyone tell me where I might find a web site that would show a schematic and assembly/disassembly description of a "Ruby-style" pistol?

Thank you,

Sir Bug

Xracer · 06-05-2003, 05:15 PM

Let me look around and see what I can find.

In the meantime, is this what you've got? (scroll to the bottom)

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/ClubDJs/France_pistol.html

To quote from the website: "The Ruby proved to be totally unsuited for serious use. Pistols made by different factories had non-interchangeable parts. Materials and workmanship were substandard and ten years later twenty percent of the pistols were no longer serviceable. In addition the pistol was heavy for its size, inaccurate, unreliable and lacked stopping power. A combination of the worst features associated with automatic pistols, the Ruby is considered by some experts to be completely worthless as a means of personal protection."

Looks like you sure know how to pick a winner, Sir Bug.

Sir Bug · 06-05-2003, 05:45 PM

Xracer,

You have done well, my friend. The "Ruby" in the link you provided does, except for the grips, look like the one I have. So. I guess I have a "Ruby-style" paper weight.

I didn't purchase the weapon as an investment or for protection. I bought it from a deputy who needed a little cash flow.

Now, if I can get that slide off without disassembling the entire thing, maybe I'll find the proofmarks.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

Xracer · 06-05-2003, 06:01 PM

Well, after exhaustive research, I found a post on another website that might help you.

And, mind you, greater love hath no man than he who will direct you to a competetor's website!

http://forums.*********.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61740

But.......y'all come back...you hear?

Sir Bug · 06-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Hello Xracer,

Thank you for providing the link to that other site. I am sure that "Capt. Kirk" is a knowledgeable person and was helpful to the fella requesting his help, but I already knew what he offered as help. I have monitored the site for several days for an update, but none has been forthcoming.

So, I'll keep trying to figure out how to get this slide off of my Ruby - style, or I'll just use it as part of an artificial reef at my favorite fishing hole.

If you can think of anything else to help, please let me know.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

06-03-2003, 09:53 PM	#1
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Spanish Semi-auto information I have a semi-auto pistol with "Made in Spain" on the left rear portion of the frame. On the slide is written "Pistol Automatic Cal 765. It has a 2 5/8" bbl., a 6 + 1 ammo capacity. Several of the internal parts, barrel and clip have the number 19 stamped on them. It has a hard brown molded holster with a clip pouch on the back side and a strap that goes over the butt and slides onto a brass pin to hold the weapon in place. There is no belt loop or belt clip; it appears to be a pocket holster. Can you tell me who manufactured this weapon and when? The serial # is 11XXX. Also, is there a schematic or break-down description available? The weapon is in good condition. With all parts original, including the holster. what value should I put on it for insurance purposes? Thank you, Sir Bug -->

06-03-2003, 09:57 PM	#2
Smokin Guns Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"... Posts: 4,463	Welcome! Welcome to ya Sir Bug!...I ain't got the answer yer lookin' for, but I reckon the peoples that do will be here shortly!... __________________ Last edited by Smokin Guns; 06-03-2003 at 09:58 PM..

06-03-2003, 11:59 PM	#3
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	Are there any other markings at all, including on the grips? __________________ The autonomic nervous system provides for involuntary muscle function - the work of breathing, digestion, and so forth. On some folks, that's a pure waste of ingenuity.

06-04-2003, 07:25 AM	#7
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	Well, I'm sure it is a Ruby-pattern pistol, just need to determine the maker. I believe you will find that 19 corresponds with the last two digits of the serial number. These pistols, by any maker, did not have model numbers. There were over a hundred small manufacturers of this type pistol in the Eibar region of Spain in the early 1900's, but after the Spanish civil war only a few were allowed to remain in production under the new regime. If you look really closely to the exterior of the frame you WILL find proofmarks. One may look like a small lion, another may look like a peace sign. Most important will be a single letter or single letter plus a number, with a star over them. It is not terribly unusual to encounter one of these that is unmarked as to maker. Even so, they were required under Spanish law to be proofed. A picture would help tremendously. If you have access to a digital camera, use the attach file feature when you post. Typical Ruby-pattern pistol will not exceed $200 in mint condition. __________________ The autonomic nervous system provides for involuntary muscle function - the work of breathing, digestion, and so forth. On some folks, that's a pure waste of ingenuity.

06-04-2003, 07:11 AM	#4
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	There are no other markings that I can find. I have done a simple field strip of the weapon; removed the grips, barrel, mainspring and safety lever. I find only the info provided. It may be important that all parts have the number 19 stamped on them, possibly a model number for the weapon. FYI, the grips are wood. Sir Bug

06-04-2003, 07:12 AM	#5
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Even better still, can you post a picture?

06-04-2003, 07:21 AM	#6
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Xracer, I do not have the capability to post a picture at this time. If all else fails, I shall make arrangements to do so. Thank you, Sir Bug

06-04-2003, 07:51 AM	#8
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Xracer, I have inspected the frame under a lighted magnifying glass. There are NO proofmarks that I can find. The frame is in good enough condition that a proofmark would be readily seen - no rust, grinding or excessive sanding. The last two digits of the serial number, 67, do not correspond with the number 19 that is stamped on the individual pieces. I mentioned that I had done a simple field stripping of the weapon. I have been unable, however, to figure out how to remove the slide. In either case, I don't think removing the slide will produce the proofmark as the entire frame can be examined with it intact. Thank you for your patience in helping me with this. Sir Bug

06-05-2003, 09:38 AM	#9
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	I agree with Doc that there's about a 99% chance that this is a Ruby or Ruby pattern pistol. Many, many thousands of these were made for both the French military and the civilian market. There were many dozens (if not hundreds, as Doc says) of small gunmakers turning these out in the Eibar region of Spain from WWI up until the 1930's......and a few after that until the '40's. With the absence of a maker's name on the pistol, it will probably be impossible to tell which one of the many Eibar gunmakers made your particular pistol. It could be that the "19" is an assembly number. Doc is our expert on values.....so I'll go with what he says.

06-05-2003, 09:58 AM	#10
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Hi Gang, I want to thank y'all for your input. If this is a "Ruby-style" pistol, can anyone explain how to remove the slide? It certainly doesn't come off like a Colt. Also, can anyone tell me where I might find a web site that would show a schematic and assembly/disassembly description of a "Ruby-style" pistol? Thank you, Sir Bug

06-05-2003, 05:15 PM	#11
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Let me look around and see what I can find. In the meantime, is this what you've got? (scroll to the bottom) http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/ClubDJs/France_pistol.html To quote from the website: "The Ruby proved to be totally unsuited for serious use. Pistols made by different factories had non-interchangeable parts. Materials and workmanship were substandard and ten years later twenty percent of the pistols were no longer serviceable. In addition the pistol was heavy for its size, inaccurate, unreliable and lacked stopping power. A combination of the worst features associated with automatic pistols, the Ruby is considered by some experts to be completely worthless as a means of personal protection." Looks like you sure know how to pick a winner, Sir Bug.

06-05-2003, 05:45 PM	#12
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Xracer, You have done well, my friend. The "Ruby" in the link you provided does, except for the grips, look like the one I have. So. I guess I have a "Ruby-style" paper weight. I didn't purchase the weapon as an investment or for protection. I bought it from a deputy who needed a little cash flow. Now, if I can get that slide off without disassembling the entire thing, maybe I'll find the proofmarks. Your Friend in Dixie, Sir Bug

06-05-2003, 06:01 PM	#13
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Well, after exhaustive research, I found a post on another website that might help you. And, mind you, greater love hath no man than he who will direct you to a competetor's website! http://forums.*********.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61740 But.......y'all come back...you hear?

06-09-2003, 10:28 PM	#14
Sir Bug V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North-Central, North Carolina Posts: 125	Hello Xracer, Thank you for providing the link to that other site. I am sure that "Capt. Kirk" is a knowledgeable person and was helpful to the fella requesting his help, but I already knew what he offered as help. I have monitored the site for several days for an update, but none has been forthcoming. So, I'll keep trying to figure out how to get this slide off of my Ruby - style, or I'll just use it as part of an artificial reef at my favorite fishing hole. If you can think of anything else to help, please let me know. Your Friend in Dixie, Sir Bug