45 ACP Primer - The Firearms Forum

bizy · 09-28-2009, 06:58 AM

I haven't seen it yet, but my son-in-law said he bought a load of brass for the 45 ACP. He asked me about the small primmer it had.
Has anyone seen these cases/ammo?

Alpo · 09-28-2009, 08:01 AM

Both Winchester and Federal (maybe others, but I know these two do) have come out with a new line of "Non Toxic" ammo. It does not use lead in the priming mixture. Supposed to be good for the environment (green), but mostly be safer for use in an indoor range. When the Winchester first came out, it used a regular LP size primer, but the flash-hole was gigantic. Apparently they weren't as hot as normal primers, so they needed a bigger hole.

Now Winchester uses a SP size. So does Federal. If your son-in-law takes a look at the headstamps of this brass, I'm fairly certain it will be marked NT.

It's loadable. Kind of a pain to keep segregated from your other 45 brass with large primers, but loadable.

gdmoody · 09-28-2009, 10:06 AM

Ditto on what Alpo says about it being a pain. I only have a few (don't know where I got them) but they get mixed up in with all the other .45 brass. You are going along reloading on your progressive press when it comes to a screaching halt as you hit one of them. I "try" to keep them separate and prime them using my ram prime on my single stage press then skip the priming step on my Dillon and go on with them, after first resizing and depriming.

gdmoody · 09-28-2009, 06:35 PM

I just came in from loading a hundred fifty .45 ACP and there was 7 of them with the regular brass. I just don't know how they get mixed in with my brass, I have never bought any NT ammo. The only thing I can think of is that they must be range pick-ups.

Bizy, here is a picture of one next to one with a regular large pistol primer. It is not a great close up picture but I think you can see the difference in primer size. I even had a problem putting a small pistol primer in four of them, had to trim the primer pocket on them!!

LDBennett · 09-29-2009, 08:47 AM

Why not just throw those cases in the trash? The pennies lost is not offset by the efforts required to segregate these case from the rest.

Reloading them is just pushing the problem onto the next reloading session. Having to segregate them when they are so absolutely similar to other cases is a pain. You have to inspect ever case to be sure it is not one of the few NT cases. That adds effort not necessary. Unless you can totally segregate them and have enough of them to make it worth while, they just cause you to expend un-necessary effort.

LDBennett

Alpo · 09-29-2009, 10:59 AM

I guess it depends on how many you have.

I toss my SP 45 brass in the scrap bin. With thousands of 45 brass, and only a couple hundred of the weird stuff, that's easier.

But WW 7.62x39 brass uses a LR primer, while RP uses a SP. I've got so little reloadable brass for that caliber that I segregate, even thought it is a pain in the keister.

gdmoody · 09-29-2009, 11:04 AM

I've ended up with about 50 of them. I do keep the ones I loaded separate but still end up picking up some every range visit, I guess. I just know I have never bought any. I could just throw them away, but it is not a big deal to inspect every case since I do it anyway, I just look for one more thing. It is also just another step or two in the loading process that I have to do for them, and since I just plain enjoy reloading, it is no problem.

Texxut · 09-30-2009, 08:40 AM

Does that change the load any? LP / SP primer, all else being the same?

bizy · 10-01-2009, 08:18 AM

Thanks guys. I learn something every visit here...

Alpo · 10-01-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texxut

Does that change the load any? LP / SP primer, all else being the same?

Certainly it will change. Anything you do to a load - different brand of bullet, different lot of cases, different primer - will cause some change. If you were using it for 25-yard Bullseye shooting, I would suggest not using them, because it could cause your group size to change.

But, in the grand reality of life, where most people are making their 45 ACP loads to be capable of holding minute-of-goblin at 15 yards, it shouldn't make a difference that is noticeable.

TheWatchman · 10-01-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizy

I haven't seen it yet, but my son-in-law said he bought a load of brass for the 45 ACP. He asked me about the small primmer it had.
Has anyone seen these cases/ammo?

This is the brass in question, So as you can see in the pictures there are 3 brands of brass with this small primer hole. Speer, Federal, and Fiochi. One picture has some blazer brass for comparison. Thanks for helping us clear this primer anomaly up and yes I am the son-in-law of the bizy one.

JLA · 10-01-2009, 04:03 PM

those damn flash holes are massive!!!

TheWatchman · 10-01-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmoody

Ditto on what Alpo says about it being a pain. I only have a few (don't know where I got them) but they get mixed up in with all the other .45 brass. You are going along reloading on your progressive press when it comes to a screaching halt as you hit one of them. I "try" to keep them separate and prime them using my ram prime on my single stage press then skip the priming step on my Dillon and go on with them, after first resizing and depriming.

YEP! That's how I discovered them too, and I managed to break the primer slide and rail on my Hornaday LNL AP in the process.

gdmoody · 10-02-2009, 12:29 AM

That Speer brass does not have NT on it that I can see and the flash holes are huge!! I thought that just the Non-Toxic ammo had the small primers! Maybe the large flash holes are compensating for the small primers??

Alpo · 10-02-2009, 08:00 AM

Where you seeing them huge holes in Speer? Top pic, brass on R/H side has huge holes, but says Federal. Top brass is Speer, with small hole. Bottom brass, can't tell because of flash glare, but it has small hole. L/H brass has large hole, but again, flash glare makes it non-readable. Bottom pic, L/H brass has large hole, but is Fiochhi. Three on top say Speer, but appear to be small hole.

LDBennett · 10-02-2009, 11:34 AM

Attempting to use Non-Toxic (NT) brass with NT primers and huge primer holes in the brass is a nightmare. Dump all the NT brass and buy some real brass readily available through any one of hundreds of dealers on the internet or in your local area. If your indoor range doesn't care that you are not shooting NT ammo why bother with it at all. The primer hole, and the NT primer effect the pressure levels (up or down... who knows?????). Gentle primers, like the NT primers, MAY affect the reliability of ignition of the ammo. Why fool around with it at all??? Popular caliber pistol brass is not that costly!

LDBennett

TheWatchman · 10-02-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Where you seeing them huge holes in Speer? Top pic, brass on R/H side has huge holes, but says Federal. Top brass is Speer, with small hole. Bottom brass, can't tell because of flash glare, but it has small hole. L/H brass has large hole, but again, flash glare makes it non-readable. Bottom pic, L/H brass has large hole, but is Fiochhi. Three on top say Speer, but appear to be small hole.

Sorry bout the flash, I'm an amateur photographer. Here are some better pictures. The first set of brass is Winchester with regular larger primer for comparison. The rest are all small primers of Fiocchi, Federal NT, and Speer.

gdmoody · 10-02-2009, 11:50 PM

Alpo, I was not saying the Speer brass had the huge flash holes. Just happened to put them in the same sentence, sorry!!

JLA · 10-03-2009, 11:35 AM

I like the speer brass, wouldnt mind having a bundle of it just to ease the stress on my LP primer supply

09-28-2009, 06:58 AM	#1
bizy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marlow, Ok Posts: 344	45 ACP Primer I haven't seen it yet, but my son-in-law said he bought a load of brass for the 45 ACP. He asked me about the small primmer it had. Has anyone seen these cases/ammo? -->

09-28-2009, 08:01 AM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: 45 ACP Primer Both Winchester and Federal (maybe others, but I know these two do) have come out with a new line of "Non Toxic" ammo. It does not use lead in the priming mixture. Supposed to be good for the environment (green), but mostly be safer for use in an indoor range. When the Winchester first came out, it used a regular LP size primer, but the flash-hole was gigantic. Apparently they weren't as hot as normal primers, so they needed a bigger hole. Now Winchester uses a SP size. So does Federal. If your son-in-law takes a look at the headstamps of this brass, I'm fairly certain it will be marked NT. It's loadable. Kind of a pain to keep segregated from your other 45 brass with large primers, but loadable. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-28-2009, 10:06 AM	#3
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: 45 ACP Primer Ditto on what Alpo says about it being a pain. I only have a few (don't know where I got them) but they get mixed up in with all the other .45 brass. You are going along reloading on your progressive press when it comes to a screaching halt as you hit one of them. I "try" to keep them separate and prime them using my ram prime on my single stage press then skip the priming step on my Dillon and go on with them, after first resizing and depriming. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant) Last edited by gdmoody; 09-28-2009 at 12:52 PM..

09-28-2009, 06:35 PM	#4
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: 45 ACP Primer I just came in from loading a hundred fifty .45 ACP and there was 7 of them with the regular brass. I just don't know how they get mixed in with my brass, I have never bought any NT ammo. The only thing I can think of is that they must be range pick-ups. Bizy, here is a picture of one next to one with a regular large pistol primer. It is not a great close up picture but I think you can see the difference in primer size. I even had a problem putting a small pistol primer in four of them, had to trim the primer pocket on them!! __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant) Last edited by gdmoody; 04-22-2013 at 11:32 AM..

09-29-2009, 08:47 AM	#5
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,715	Re: 45 ACP Primer Why not just throw those cases in the trash? The pennies lost is not offset by the efforts required to segregate these case from the rest. Reloading them is just pushing the problem onto the next reloading session. Having to segregate them when they are so absolutely similar to other cases is a pain. You have to inspect ever case to be sure it is not one of the few NT cases. That adds effort not necessary. Unless you can totally segregate them and have enough of them to make it worth while, they just cause you to expend un-necessary effort. LDBennett

09-29-2009, 10:59 AM	#6
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: 45 ACP Primer I guess it depends on how many you have. I toss my SP 45 brass in the scrap bin. With thousands of 45 brass, and only a couple hundred of the weird stuff, that's easier. But WW 7.62x39 brass uses a LR primer, while RP uses a SP. I've got so little reloadable brass for that caliber that I segregate, even thought it is a pain in the keister. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-29-2009, 11:04 AM	#7
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: 45 ACP Primer I've ended up with about 50 of them. I do keep the ones I loaded separate but still end up picking up some every range visit, I guess. I just know I have never bought any. I could just throw them away, but it is not a big deal to inspect every case since I do it anyway, I just look for one more thing. It is also just another step or two in the loading process that I have to do for them, and since I just plain enjoy reloading, it is no problem. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

09-30-2009, 08:40 AM	#8
Texxut V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 264	Re: 45 ACP Primer Does that change the load any? LP / SP primer, all else being the same?

10-01-2009, 08:18 AM	#9
bizy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marlow, Ok Posts: 344	Re: 45 ACP Primer Thanks guys. I learn something every visit here...

10-01-2009, 04:03 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,319	Re: 45 ACP Primer those damn flash holes are massive!!! __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-02-2009, 12:29 AM	#14
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: 45 ACP Primer That Speer brass does not have NT on it that I can see and the flash holes are huge!! I thought that just the Non-Toxic ammo had the small primers! Maybe the large flash holes are compensating for the small primers?? __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

10-02-2009, 08:00 AM	#15
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: 45 ACP Primer Where you seeing them huge holes in Speer? Top pic, brass on R/H side has huge holes, but says Federal. Top brass is Speer, with small hole. Bottom brass, can't tell because of flash glare, but it has small hole. L/H brass has large hole, but again, flash glare makes it non-readable. Bottom pic, L/H brass has large hole, but is Fiochhi. Three on top say Speer, but appear to be small hole. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-02-2009, 11:34 AM	#16
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,715	Re: 45 ACP Primer Attempting to use Non-Toxic (NT) brass with NT primers and huge primer holes in the brass is a nightmare. Dump all the NT brass and buy some real brass readily available through any one of hundreds of dealers on the internet or in your local area. If your indoor range doesn't care that you are not shooting NT ammo why bother with it at all. The primer hole, and the NT primer effect the pressure levels (up or down... who knows?????). Gentle primers, like the NT primers, MAY affect the reliability of ignition of the ammo. Why fool around with it at all??? Popular caliber pistol brass is not that costly! LDBennett

10-02-2009, 11:50 PM	#18
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,340	Re: 45 ACP Primer Alpo, I was not saying the Speer brass had the huge flash holes. Just happened to put them in the same sentence, sorry!! __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

10-03-2009, 11:35 AM	#19
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,319	Re: 45 ACP Primer I like the speer brass, wouldnt mind having a bundle of it just to ease the stress on my LP primer supply __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!