.357 recoil question - The Firearms Forum

thunderstruck507 · 08-03-2006, 02:14 PM

It seems when I shoot heavier bullets the recoil goes up and this is mentioned in several articles I've read before. What are the physics of explaining this?

When my roommate was ordering some ammo from Double Tap for me he asked why I wanted the 125gr instead of the 158gr or larger and I told him for the more controllable recoil and from I've read they are less likely to overpenetrate. He contests that bullet weight has no bearing on recoil and from my experience even with Winchester white box I disagree.

22WRF · 08-03-2006, 02:59 PM

my 158's recoil more than my 148's because I use a heavier charge

thunderstruck507 · 08-03-2006, 08:30 PM

well i just went to the range since the Double Tap ammo arrived, 125gr gold dot 1600fps w/4in barrel, and they had noticeably less recoil than the budget remington 158grain sjhp cheap ammo ($30 per box of 100)

southernshooter · 08-03-2006, 09:26 PM

It is just like 22 said heavier bullets usually have more of an inital charge

Ursus · 08-04-2006, 12:40 AM

Actually, the powder charge it´s only part of the answer. If you were to use different bullet weights with the same powder charge, the heavier bullet will always recoil the most.
This is because of Newton´s third movment law that states that for every action, there´s a equal and opposite reaction. That is, if you push a rock with a force of 50 pounds, the rock will resist with an equal force in the opposite direction. Of course, the ammount of force that the rock exert, can not exceed its own weight.
Thus the heavier the rock, the harder to move it. That difficult to move the heavier object is what causes the the more accentuated recoil sensation when yo shoot heavier bullets.

Country101 · 08-04-2006, 07:38 AM

What Ursus said. That charge has to push harder to move the heavier bullet and that means there is going to be more recoil.

ryan_marine · 08-04-2006, 07:34 PM

Let me do this the quick way. If you have to lift 10lbs, while standing, your transfering the extra energy that is felt by your shoes. If you lifting 20lbs in the same manner you shoes feel more because of the added weight.

Hope it helps.

Ray

Peanut Man · 08-04-2006, 09:44 PM

Weight of the bullet is just one part of the equation. The recoil "force" has several factors including the rate of the powder "burn." That is why a larger caliber, loaded to relatively low velocities (.45 Colt, 255 gr SWC, at 700fps) gives you a nice little "push" and not the "oh my Gawd" recoil of a .454 Casull, 300 gr JHP with 30+gr of 296 behind it. I think the "energy" figures might give you a better figure to base recoil on, because it takes into effect not only bullet weight, but velocity.

Tom

45Smashemflat · 08-05-2006, 08:41 AM

Newton's first law - for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For one loading versus another, the one pushing more energy out the front of the gun, will generate more recoil out the back end. Now, as has been mentioned, there are several facets of recoil that have to be taken into consideration to determine which "feels" worse. But generally the rule will hold if the gun remains the same.

denfoote · 08-05-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat

Newton's first law - for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For one loading versus another, the one pushing more energy out the front of the gun, will generate more recoil out the back end. Now, as has been mentioned, there are several facets of recoil that have to be taken into consideration to determine which "feels" worse. But generally the rule will hold if the gun remains the same.

F=mA and you can't push on a rope.

Uncle R. · 08-30-2006, 04:05 PM

The applicable rule is conservation of MOMENTUM. There is also a jet effect from the powder gases exiting the barrel but the MOMENTUM of the handgun's recoil will equal the MOMENTUM of the bullet and powder gases.
Momentum is calculated using mass x velocity, while energy is calculated using mass times velocity squared. So if you have two different loads each with (say) 300 foot-pounds of energy, the one with the heavier bullet will always kick more if the guns are equal in weight.

With maximum loads in any caliber heavier bullets will deliver more momentum to the target, and will recoil more.

Ursus · 08-30-2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle R.

So if you have two different loads each with (say) 300 foot-pounds of energy, the one with the heavier bullet will always kick more if the guns are equal in weight.

With maximum loads in any caliber heavier bullets will deliver more momentum to the target, and will recoil more.

Right on.

southernshooter · 08-30-2006, 09:23 PM

Welcome Uncle R

08-03-2006, 02:14 PM	#1
thunderstruck507 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 107	.357 recoil question It seems when I shoot heavier bullets the recoil goes up and this is mentioned in several articles I've read before. What are the physics of explaining this? When my roommate was ordering some ammo from Double Tap for me he asked why I wanted the 125gr instead of the 158gr or larger and I told him for the more controllable recoil and from I've read they are less likely to overpenetrate. He contests that bullet weight has no bearing on recoil and from my experience even with Winchester white box I disagree. -->

08-03-2006, 02:59 PM	#2
22WRF Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pea Ridge, FL Contributor Posts: 4,271	Re: .357 recoil question my 158's recoil more than my 148's because I use a heavier charge __________________ NRA GOA CCRKBA Happiness is a warm barrel

08-03-2006, 08:30 PM	#3
thunderstruck507 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 107	Re: .357 recoil question well i just went to the range since the Double Tap ammo arrived, 125gr gold dot 1600fps w/4in barrel, and they had noticeably less recoil than the budget remington 158grain sjhp cheap ammo ($30 per box of 100)

08-03-2006, 09:26 PM	#4
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: .357 recoil question It is just like 22 said heavier bullets usually have more of an inital charge __________________ Only you can see this

08-04-2006, 12:40 AM	#5
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: .357 recoil question Actually, the powder charge it´s only part of the answer. If you were to use different bullet weights with the same powder charge, the heavier bullet will always recoil the most. This is because of Newton´s third movment law that states that for every action, there´s a equal and opposite reaction. That is, if you push a rock with a force of 50 pounds, the rock will resist with an equal force in the opposite direction. Of course, the ammount of force that the rock exert, can not exceed its own weight. Thus the heavier the rock, the harder to move it. That difficult to move the heavier object is what causes the the more accentuated recoil sensation when yo shoot heavier bullets.

08-04-2006, 07:38 AM	#6
Country101 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dardanelle, AR Contributor Posts: 2,045	Re: .357 recoil question What Ursus said. That charge has to push harder to move the heavier bullet and that means there is going to be more recoil. __________________ Gainfully employed= shooting somebody elses bullets and getting paid for it Country101

08-04-2006, 07:34 PM	#7
ryan_marine Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 919	Re: .357 recoil question Let me do this the quick way. If you have to lift 10lbs, while standing, your transfering the extra energy that is felt by your shoes. If you lifting 20lbs in the same manner you shoes feel more because of the added weight. Hope it helps. Ray

08-04-2006, 09:44 PM	#8
Peanut Man V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: earth Posts: 56	Re: .357 recoil question Weight of the bullet is just one part of the equation. The recoil "force" has several factors including the rate of the powder "burn." That is why a larger caliber, loaded to relatively low velocities (.45 Colt, 255 gr SWC, at 700fps) gives you a nice little "push" and not the "oh my Gawd" recoil of a .454 Casull, 300 gr JHP with 30+gr of 296 behind it. I think the "energy" figures might give you a better figure to base recoil on, because it takes into effect not only bullet weight, but velocity. Tom

08-05-2006, 08:41 AM	#9
45Smashemflat Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,494	Re: .357 recoil question Newton's first law - for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For one loading versus another, the one pushing more energy out the front of the gun, will generate more recoil out the back end. Now, as has been mentioned, there are several facets of recoil that have to be taken into consideration to determine which "feels" worse. But generally the rule will hold if the gun remains the same.

08-30-2006, 04:05 PM	#11
Uncle R. Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: God's Country - WI Posts: 2	Re: .357 recoil question The applicable rule is conservation of MOMENTUM. There is also a jet effect from the powder gases exiting the barrel but the MOMENTUM of the handgun's recoil will equal the MOMENTUM of the bullet and powder gases. Momentum is calculated using mass x velocity, while energy is calculated using mass times velocity squared. So if you have two different loads each with (say) 300 foot-pounds of energy, the one with the heavier bullet will always kick more if the guns are equal in weight. With maximum loads in any caliber heavier bullets will deliver more momentum to the target, and will recoil more.

08-30-2006, 09:23 PM	#13
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: .357 recoil question Welcome Uncle R __________________ Only you can see this