.308 or .30-06?

[hogger129]

What are the pros and cons of .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield?

[JLA]

IMHO, from a handloaders standpoint, one is simply a short action version of the other... That being said, the .30-06 will better handle heavier bullets, buuut the .308 has the advantage of a lighter more compact shooting platform. A piece of paper 1000 yds is in just as much danger by either one when properly loaded ammo and a properly equipped shooting platforms are employed (i.e. a NM M1A vs a NM Garand with DCM approved ammo for both) Like wise for deer out to 600 or 800 yds if you can shoot that far

[res45]

Well lets say for instance we have two identical bolt guns,same maker,action and barrel length. Now we load up a MAX rd. for each using same primer, IMR-4895 and use a 168 gr. BTHP match grade bullet in each load.

Here is what you end up with (data taken for Lyman #49 manual),the 308 MAX load is 42.5 grs. of 4895 MV is 2624 fps,pressure generated with that load is 51.200 cups. On the 06 MAX load is 48.5 grs. MV is 2762 fps. pressure generated is 47.600 cups.

As you can see the 308 takes less powder,works at a higher pressure but only gives up just a slight bit of MV to the 06. The 06 as stated gives you an advantage in the heavier bullet dept. over the 308. As JLA stated at 1000 yds. punching paper or anywhere below that at normal hunting ranges it just comes down to personal preference more than anything else.

[FTK87]

Before last month, I was a die hard '06 fan, but about a month ago I bought a .308 I have found out That I consistently fing accurate loads for the .308 as opposed to the '06 . I have almost decided that the .308 , under normal circumstances(not using a 200+ gr bullet) will do as good as a .30-06 in almost all catagories, with quite a bit less recoil.

[jdon72]

I have both...if you are going to hunt, they will both do well, but the 06 will take down anything in North America...it has more versatility in loads using all different weights of bullets. Your choice

J

[JLA]

FTK does have a good point... However I personally prefer the 06 to the .308 due to the exact reasons jdon mentioned about load versatility...

[retired grunt]

308 surplus is "IMO" more available as it is the current NATO round

[zkovach]

i have a .308 and love it. from my reloading books there is not much of a difference between the two. The 06 can haul a slightly heavier bullet but either way both caliber are great!

[cycloneman]

308. 06's are for old timers.

[The_Rifleman]

308. 06's are for young whippersnappers! Get a 30-30!

[muddober]

The case capacity of the 06 is far more than the 308 and as such the 06 will do more than the 308 no matter what like weight bullet one chooses to use. It is exactly like cubic inches in an engine, the more inches the more power. As for 1000 yard shooting I don't think there is a 308 loading that is still going supersonic and there are many loads in the 06 that are. res45 with his loading data gave some insight to one issue that plagues the 06 and that is there are a lot of guns out there chambered in 06 that cannot take 55,000 psi loads. The lever action model 95 Winchester as one example and as such most factory 06 ammo and reloading manuals stay very conservative on pressures due to liability problems. The reason a 308 does not recoil as much as an 06 in like a rifle of the same weight, is because the 308 is not doing as much work (the bullet is not going as fast) as the 06.

For deer and black bear hunting, as well as other animals of about the same body weight both are adequate but the 06 will give you about a hundred yards more range. For elk, big bear and moose the 06 with 200 grain bullets would be my pick at any range way over any loading in 308.

Ron

[RandyP]

"What are the pros and cons of .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield?"

I reckon part of the answer really depends on what is your intended use for the rounds?

Hunting (what?), target shooting (at what range?), only from a reloading perspective?

[Popgunner]

As noted in the lates Speer manual, there is new news for the comparison of these two calibers. Before, when the max pressure for the '06 was 50kpsi & .308 was limited to 52kpsi the '06 won out on velocity in light & heavy bullets both. But now that the .308 pressure limit has been increased to 62K psi the .308 throws bullets up to 150 grains noticeably faster than the '06. The nod still goes to the '06 for bullets heavier than 150 grains. This will be for new loads developed with the 62K pressures. If you dare to work up loads till pressure signs develop & back off slightly I would guess the '06 would win out with all bullet weights, but new listed loads will now be showing the .308 as faster with lighter bullets.

[Old Iron]

After reading all these responses, I have a question. If you have a lighter rifle with more pressure vs. a heavier rifle with less pressure, how would the recoil compare if both are loaded with the same weight bullet?

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by muddober

For elk, big bear and moose the 06 with 200 grain bullets would be my pick at any range way over any loading in 308.

The preferred bullet for my 30-06 so far is a 190gr SPBT. My twist is too slow for the larger bullets I've tried. I can hit pretty accurately but the bullets will not stabilize. I was shooting some 220 gr RN a few days ago and all the holes in cardboard were oblong, you could clearly tell the bullets were wobbling in flight. I think that would effect the velocity greatly at medium to long distance, when I hit steel, [at 300 yards,] they didn't dent at all. I also tried to use the 208gr A-max and had the same issue. So twist rate has a lot to do with it also. A 200gr bullet just might work in my rifle but it is most likely right on the border.

It is a much larger issue than simply comparing one cartridge to another. There is much more of an exacting science to it.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by Old Iron

After reading all these responses, I have a question. If you have a lighter rifle with more pressure vs. a heavier rifle with less pressure, how would the recoil compare if both are loaded with the same weight bullet?

As a genearal rule heavier bullets mean heavier recoil. However, your question is asking about pressure, in this case the light rifle firing the high pressure load with the light bullet will rearrange your thought process much more, uh, authoritatively than the heavy rifle firing the heavy bullet at a lower pressure...make sense??? Bullet weight is a part of the mix but not the only ingredient...

[Terry_P]

Here is a recoil calculator:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

As to which caliber flip a coin. I own 06's and naturally prefer them however realistically either will do the job and handle anything in the lower 48.

[muddober]

Originally Posted by Old Iron

After reading all these responses, I have a question. If you have a lighter rifle with more pressure vs. a heavier rifle with less pressure, how would the recoil compare if both are loaded with the same weight bullet?

Pressure has nothing to do with recoil. Recoil is the product of the speed and weight of the bullet verses the weight of the rifle. Pressure in and of its self has vertually nothing to do with the speed of the bullet. Only when you add time to pressure you now have a way to determine the speed of the bullet and time is controlled by the kind and the amount of fuel utilized. As an example take two cars of the same weight, same every thing except the gas tank in one only holds one cup of gasoline and the other one holds two cups. Drag race the two cars against one and other. Both engines make exactly the same power/pressure, but the car with more gas makes the power/pressure for a longer period of time and therefore will be going faster when it runs out of gas than the first one did.

I hope that helped answer your question.

Ron

[wpage]

Both good rounds but clearly the 06 is more versatile from whats been said...

[Old Iron]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. When I was younger and had a mini bike, the shop owner explained the difference between the 3.5 and the 5 hp engine. They both will do the same top speed, the bigger one just gets there sooner. Being new to reloading, I can see I need to re-adjust my thinking a little. Where the larger horse power cuts down time, the larger amount of powder can extent the burn time and create more velocity. A plus for the 30.06.

Thanks again. Jim

[DGG!]

HOG-
My suggestion is to get the gun that feels the best to you.

Get some practice rounds at the shop and cycle them through the gun and magazine a few times. See how it feels.

Figure out which gun will be the easiest for you to put on target. Also, consider how much walking you will do and how much weight you want to carry (the reason the .308 replaced the .30-06 in military use in the first place).

Please don't get carried away with the numbers. They will drive you crazy. There are too many variables in ballistics to get hung up on ballistic tables and energy measurements in a book that are only valid for that particular gun at that particular place and time.

The only way I know to check out different loads is to go to the range with your gun and see what they do for the trigger puller, me!

A chronograph will help, but the wind, temperature, type of bullet, altitude of the range, etc. all have an impact on the final numbers. Just go out, have some fun, and see what works best for you.

Have you narrowed your search down to these two calibers? Both are excellent but you might consider .243 for whitetail or so up some to 7mm Remington Magnum if hunting big game like Elk or Moose or shooting game at a really long distance. These are two other vary popular (read easy to find) calibers.

I think recoil tolerance is a big issue in choosing a gun that is frequently overlooked.

[al45lc]

Originally Posted by FTK87

Before last month, I was a die hard '06 fan, but about a month ago I bought a .308 I have found out That I consistently fing accurate loads for the .308 as opposed to the '06 . I have almost decided that the .308 , under normal circumstances(not using a 200+ gr bullet) will do as good as a .30-06 in almost all catagories, with quite a bit less recoil.

The laws of physics do not change, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. If bullet weight and speed is the same, as well as rifle weight and dimensions, the recoil will be the same, regardless of cartridge.
Felt, or perceived recoil, can be different, such as the difference between an auto loader and a bolt rifle, but the initial recoil is the same, if all other variables are.