Colt Noob question - The Firearms Forum

RimfireRat · 12-08-2006, 04:25 PM

I'm getting my first 1911 a MK IV 70 series used. I have a stable of S&W and finally broke down to get a colt. What is the diff. between the 70 series and the 80 series and is one really better than the other? Pros and Cons --JMJ--

45Smashemflat · 12-08-2006, 04:42 PM

The difference is in the "extra" safety of the Series 80 guns. These guns have an extra firing pin block that is cammed up by trigger movement. Series 70 guns have only the pile of safeties originally designed by Mr Browning himself. Any Kimber marked II also has a firing pin block - but it is activated by the grip safety. The issue with the colt series 80 units is this extra linkage and such makes it harder to get the best trigger pull. Model II kimbers can have a standard trigger job done to them like a seies 70 colt.

Confused even more now?

LDBennett · 12-08-2006, 04:56 PM

If you are a real competitor you MIGHT be able to tell the difference between the series 70 and 80 trigger pull after each has had a premo trigger job but I really doubt it. I did a trigger job on my series 80 with drop in parts and the trigger is superb.

The firing pin safety is actuated by a small lever in the frame that pushes up a small pin that normally blocks the firing pin from moving. The extra force at the trigger has to be insignificant, at least that is the way mine is. I have seen other gun designs that have the same feature with terrible results (too big a spring on the firing pin blocking pin). This not the case on my series 80 Colt. My Colt is beautifully finished (blue), all the features are concise without sharp edges, and the gun has functioned perfectly for over 20 years and it is a Colt Delta Elite 10mm.

LDBennett

RimfireRat · 12-08-2006, 08:04 PM

I do know When i get smoe more green stuff i'm gonna be dropping in some different parts and have some work done to the trigger.I was not impressed with the factory trigger feel at all. I just bought two SA 44mags and now this Colt so I gotta play catch up b/4 any upgrades.--JMJ--

southernshooter · 12-08-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RimfireRat

I was not impressed with the factory trigger feel at all.

A lot of the time you can take the trigger out and clean the packing grease out of the trigger and other various parts that will lightin and improve the trigger quite a bit this applys to most gun triggers

RimfireRat · 12-09-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernshooter

A lot of the time you can take the trigger out and clean the packing grease out of the trigger and other various parts that will lightin and improve the trigger quite a bit this applys to most gun triggers

When i slowly pulled the trigger it seemed to have a ...steppy creep feel to it .kinda hard to describe. It was not a smooth take up. felt like it needed some stone work and polishing. ? Being a used gun I would thought it would hve been worn in some ,but it felt like a new out of the box kinda feel.-

Ah in time this too will change-

--JMJ--

LDBennett · 12-09-2006, 12:29 PM

Trigger feel today is rotten with almost any gun you buy. It is the lawyers fault. They are hired by the gun manufacturer to protect company assets and the lawyer says " Make the triggers ultra safe", so they do.

Creep is about the amount of engagement of the sear and hammer. A lot is safe. A little less safe. Smooth the surfaces with stones and the creep looses its gritty feel and is smooth but still there, with lots of safety. Reduce the sear/hammer engagement and the creep lessens but the trigger is less safe (Lawyers' ears perk up, at this point). The less the creep the more safety is lost.

Trigger pull level is mostly about heavy springs, both trigger return and hammer. Lighten either and the trigger is less safe (Lawyers' ears perk up, at this point, again).

Manufacturers can not risk less safe triggers so all triggers today suck, no matter the manufacturer. If they are creep free they normally have high pull levels to assure the sear/hammer junction will not break at the wrong time. The Smith & Wesson revolvers are a prime example of little creep and heavier pull levels.

Nearly all guns bought today will need trigger work and the gunsmiths to do those trigger jobs are getting the same legal advice as the manufacturers. The way things are going today I expect that you will, in the near future, not be able to find a gunsmith willing to do trigger jobs anymore. Already you can not buy trigger parts for most USA made firearms without an FFL (gunsmith only). And that is the manufactures decision, not the governments. So comparing one guns crummy trigger to another guns crummy trigger to me is meaningless. Every gun I buy I do a trigger job on, myself (thanks to the AGI Trigger Jobs course).

LDBennett

southernshooter · 12-09-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDbennet

Trigger feel today is rotten with almost any gun you buy. It is the lawyers fault. They are hired by the gun manufacturer to protect company assets and the lawyer says

That is why I like Savage new trigger that is one of the only guns whenI bought of the shelf had a 1.4 lb trigger

RimfireRat · 12-10-2006, 12:12 AM

YEAH i have a few revolver with triggers that would give a lawyer a heart attack like my old S&W 17 and the 629.I hope i never need to return them to the factory as they surely will come back upgraded to the " NEW" standards.--JMJ--

RimfireRat · 12-14-2006, 02:28 AM

OK the pony came home. Now I guess i need to find a spare mags or two... dependable ,but not thru the roof in cost. i'm getting tight unless i sell my S&W 4506.

Would like to do the grip grabber add on first. i'm waiting for Shooter45 s test results. the grips gottago or i'm gonna grindthe hump off the left side so to reach the mag release . I guess i got my $300 worth.

there's some pitting on the left frt of the slide,guess i'll have to live with it.kinda at a bad place to even hid with engraving.

My Buddy has a norinco he tricked out nad he swears by the Meggar mags (good or bad) I've seen Mccormick mags etc. what to stay away from and whats worthy. need opinions,WOW!! thats a scarey remark Thanks up front guys

--JMJ--

Xracer · 12-14-2006, 09:04 AM

Mec-Gar magazines are OK....McCormick are better....but for the absolute best, get Wilson.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_magazines.asp

BTW.....for $300, I'd say that you got your money's worth....and then some.

Crpdeth · 12-14-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

for the absolute best, get Wilson.

I agree! Wilson mags cleared up alot of "problems" with my Colt a long time ago, I'll never shop for another brand for 1911's.

Crpdeth

RimfireRat · 12-14-2006, 12:08 PM

Man, I feel stupid asking these questions. 7 or 8 rds mags. Will the 8 rd extend if i don't have something like the beveled Mag extension. My guess is if the 7 fits flush the 8 has to at least to some degree. This will be my cold weather carry gun and I want to keep thing simple.So i'll probabaly pass on the mag well ext. I have a CZ 75 PCR for summer carry. --JMJ--

12-08-2006, 04:25 PM	#1
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Colt Noob question I'm getting my first 1911 a MK IV 70 series used. I have a stable of S&W and finally broke down to get a colt. What is the diff. between the 70 series and the 80 series and is one really better than the other? Pros and Cons --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W. -->

12-08-2006, 04:42 PM	#2
45Smashemflat Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,494	Re: Colt Noob question The difference is in the "extra" safety of the Series 80 guns. These guns have an extra firing pin block that is cammed up by trigger movement. Series 70 guns have only the pile of safeties originally designed by Mr Browning himself. Any Kimber marked II also has a firing pin block - but it is activated by the grip safety. The issue with the colt series 80 units is this extra linkage and such makes it harder to get the best trigger pull. Model II kimbers can have a standard trigger job done to them like a seies 70 colt. Confused even more now?

12-08-2006, 04:56 PM	#3
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: Colt Noob question If you are a real competitor you MIGHT be able to tell the difference between the series 70 and 80 trigger pull after each has had a premo trigger job but I really doubt it. I did a trigger job on my series 80 with drop in parts and the trigger is superb. The firing pin safety is actuated by a small lever in the frame that pushes up a small pin that normally blocks the firing pin from moving. The extra force at the trigger has to be insignificant, at least that is the way mine is. I have seen other gun designs that have the same feature with terrible results (too big a spring on the firing pin blocking pin). This not the case on my series 80 Colt. My Colt is beautifully finished (blue), all the features are concise without sharp edges, and the gun has functioned perfectly for over 20 years and it is a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. LDBennett

12-08-2006, 08:04 PM	#4
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Colt Noob question I do know When i get smoe more green stuff i'm gonna be dropping in some different parts and have some work done to the trigger.I was not impressed with the factory trigger feel at all. I just bought two SA 44mags and now this Colt so I gotta play catch up b/4 any upgrades.--JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-09-2006, 12:29 PM	#7
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: Colt Noob question Trigger feel today is rotten with almost any gun you buy. It is the lawyers fault. They are hired by the gun manufacturer to protect company assets and the lawyer says " Make the triggers ultra safe", so they do. Creep is about the amount of engagement of the sear and hammer. A lot is safe. A little less safe. Smooth the surfaces with stones and the creep looses its gritty feel and is smooth but still there, with lots of safety. Reduce the sear/hammer engagement and the creep lessens but the trigger is less safe (Lawyers' ears perk up, at this point). The less the creep the more safety is lost. Trigger pull level is mostly about heavy springs, both trigger return and hammer. Lighten either and the trigger is less safe (Lawyers' ears perk up, at this point, again). Manufacturers can not risk less safe triggers so all triggers today suck, no matter the manufacturer. If they are creep free they normally have high pull levels to assure the sear/hammer junction will not break at the wrong time. The Smith & Wesson revolvers are a prime example of little creep and heavier pull levels. Nearly all guns bought today will need trigger work and the gunsmiths to do those trigger jobs are getting the same legal advice as the manufacturers. The way things are going today I expect that you will, in the near future, not be able to find a gunsmith willing to do trigger jobs anymore. Already you can not buy trigger parts for most USA made firearms without an FFL (gunsmith only). And that is the manufactures decision, not the governments. So comparing one guns crummy trigger to another guns crummy trigger to me is meaningless. Every gun I buy I do a trigger job on, myself (thanks to the AGI Trigger Jobs course). LDBennett

12-10-2006, 12:12 AM	#9
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Colt Noob question YEAH i have a few revolver with triggers that would give a lawyer a heart attack like my old S&W 17 and the 629.I hope i never need to return them to the factory as they surely will come back upgraded to the " NEW" standards.--JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-14-2006, 02:28 AM	#10
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Colt Noob question OK the pony came home. Now I guess i need to find a spare mags or two... dependable ,but not thru the roof in cost. i'm getting tight unless i sell my S&W 4506. Would like to do the grip grabber add on first. i'm waiting for Shooter45 s test results. the grips gottago or i'm gonna grindthe hump off the left side so to reach the mag release . I guess i got my $300 worth. there's some pitting on the left frt of the slide,guess i'll have to live with it.kinda at a bad place to even hid with engraving. My Buddy has a norinco he tricked out nad he swears by the Meggar mags (good or bad) I've seen Mccormick mags etc. what to stay away from and whats worthy. need opinions,WOW!! thats a scarey remark Thanks up front guys --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-14-2006, 09:04 AM	#11
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: Colt Noob question Mec-Gar magazines are OK....McCormick are better....but for the absolute best, get Wilson. http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_magazines.asp BTW.....for $300, I'd say that you got your money's worth....and then some.

12-14-2006, 12:08 PM	#13
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: Colt Noob question Man, I feel stupid asking these questions. 7 or 8 rds mags. Will the 8 rd extend if i don't have something like the beveled Mag extension. My guess is if the 7 fits flush the 8 has to at least to some degree. This will be my cold weather carry gun and I want to keep thing simple.So i'll probabaly pass on the mag well ext. I have a CZ 75 PCR for summer carry. --JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.