Surviving the downfall

[UncleFudd]

Need help.

I thought I read a link posted by one of the member regarding a Serb who had actually survived the Czecknian crisis.
He was telling what it was really like to survive in this horrible situation for over a year, what he lived through, witnessed, experienced and had to do just to live day to day.

If any remember or know where to find this link please re-post it or PM me or e mail etc.

I appreciate any help I can get to find this info as it was truly interesting and educational for planning purposes etc.

Thanks so much.

UF

[CampingJosh]

Hmmm... I remember it, too. Now where is it...

[Juker]

Here 'tis:

http://shtfschool.com/

[UncleFudd]

Juker

YOU ARE THE MAN.

If you ever find yourself in Az give a shout so I can buy you a big orange.

I had started reading this and found it to be very educational and eye opening to say the least.
What happens in the real world when there is nothing in the stores, and we are left to survive with only and I repeat only what we have at hand.

Thanks a bunch guys and gals.

UF

[Gun Geezer]

Forty-two percent of our citizens are on the Government dole, according to the latest reports. If our Government collapses, nearly half of the population will be dead in 6 mos. with nobody to supply their needs and wants. Those who don't die from starvation or disease will try to steal what they no longer get without having the skills or inclination to work for. With no penal or judicial system, vigilante justice will thin the herd, but at a high cost. Those who have the means and will to protect what is theirs will eventually triumph. In a year or less we will be thrust back into the pre-revolutionary war era, the only difference being higher tech weapons. If the electric grid fails, which it must, cell phones and computers will be useless. The rest of the infrastructure will follow and money will be useless. The country will be taken over by what can only be described as warlords who will rule ruthlessly. Whats to look forward too?

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

Forty-two percent of our citizens are on the Government dole, according to the latest reports. If our Government collapses, nearly half of the population will be dead in 6 mos. with nobody to supply their needs and wants. Those who don't die from starvation or disease will try to steal what they no longer get without having the skills or inclination to work for. With no penal or judicial system, vigilante justice will thin the herd, but at a high cost. Those who have the means and will to protect what is theirs will eventually triumph. In a year or less we will be thrust back into the pre-revolutionary war era, the only difference being higher tech weapons. If the electric grid fails, which it must, cell phones and computers will be useless. The rest of the infrastructure will follow and money will be useless. The country will be taken over by what can only be described as warlords who will rule ruthlessly. Whats to look forward too?

Few people get this. The smart ones do.

[prof_fate]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

Whats to look forward too?

Being one of the warlords?

No, I agree, it's not something I want to see come to fruition. When I was young, robust, single, owned nothing of consequence I was all for it - a great way to 'test' or prove oneself.

Now? No way. However, it can happen and not being prepared means a slower, more painful death. I might be able to eat a bullet, but what, leave my kids and wife behind? No way. Shoot them first? No way in hell. So then challenge becomes what to prepare for, and how much to change your lifestyle 'just in case'.

To live 100% self sufficiently in a cave bunker in the mountains with a few comrades suggests you'll survive whatever happens. But until then what quality of life have you got? I went to Disney and enjoyed it very much. I like camping (in an RV with a fridge, toilet, running water and not in a tent squatting in the dirt to brush my teeth), living near (but not in) a city. I like electricity, computers and the internet - really really like them.

I like sleeping at night - should the SHTF I doubt i'd ever sleep well again. Who's to guard my family? Who's guarding me while I sleep? Do I 'invest' my kids college savings in building a bunker in my basement? Since nothing like this has happened on this continent since the 1860s, and even then it was moslty restricted to a few places and lasted a short time (other than vicksburg) I would have to say statistically you're more likely to win the publishers clearing house than to face a SHTF situation that lasts beyond a week.

[jack404]

and whats wrong with being a "warlord " when SHTF ??

i remember the Byzantine Empire started that way , as a responce to lawlessness and raids by islamists to be ( slavers and looters) and the north africans they stirred up ,

nothing wrong with a "strong man" who sets a standard that he himself must be bound too , the shirmak or warrior Group that founded the borders and later rules of the byzantines where early Christians , in a rough land they imposed a rough rule

but look at the beauty and peace that came of it until islam interfered..

if it got totally to heck here , damn straight me and mine will state and re-enforce the law , maybe not the states law , but survival law for sure ..

5 will get you ten the lowlives will form gangs

and i suggest likewise for those interested , just be sure of what your joining and that it will be ask you joined a year or three on..

[Juker]

Originally Posted by UncleFudd

Juker

YOU ARE THE MAN.

If you ever find yourself in Az give a shout so I can buy you a big orange.

I had started reading this and found it to be very educational and eye opening to say the least.
What happens in the real world when there is nothing in the stores, and we are left to survive with only and I repeat only what we have at hand.

Thanks a bunch guys and gals.

UF

It's a date.

As soon as I started reading that site, I saved it, and have been reading it ever since. Most enlightening ---

[Zhurh]

Wouldn't we all like to be WARLORDS; I would too but I just don't think it's going to stay that bad for an extended period of time, like years. Maybe in the cities, but in rural areas life will go on; Many people have been prepared for a long time; they live their lives that way. You know, garden, canning meat, on and on, just being ready to do on their own.

No food in grocery stores, no supplies, money value will drop, no fuel, ect. I think after one has their food & supplies up to snuff; necessary means to protect everything; the #1 thing to remember is the further out & rural that you are, the safer you and yours will be. Have a cabin up the mnts if you can't live rural.

WE live along the Yukon where it comes into Alaska from Canada, you'd be hard put getting more rural than that. Locals have discussed burning bridges to stop the influx of people; half jokingly. I doubt they'd have the gas to make it 200 miles down our dirt road when it all came down to it.

I have a 1000 gal tank full fuel oil, need a 500 gal gas tank to keep my snowmachines & 4 wheelers happy. Need to load up on booze to barter with. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I need to get 100 cartons of smokes for the lovely wifey that turns into the she devil from the North when she runs out.

The Warlord thing does interest everybody, doesn't it.

[Capt Mac Turk]

I clicked on the link & it dident work.
Several weeks later I get a message from them I opened it.
EVER SINCE they been sending me stuff!

I read allot of it but most is in general comon sence.

I think Its still in my junk if anyone wants to see it I'll send it to you.

[fordtrucksforever]

If SHTF in a national sense, it will be some time before any type of normalcy will take affect. Too much corruption in the current system for anything else to happen. That means for anyone that plans to go the distance, protecting whats yours will be the most paramount issue to deal with. Its really hard to guess now a days where is actually a better place to be. Inner city obviously wont work and outer areas will be prime target from the nearby cities. Sub rural areas may be initially safe for a short time. But wont take long before the desperate people to do what ever it takes to acquire their needs will figure out it may be easy pickings. Out in the sticks, it will be difficult for people to have 24/7 security or survive being over run by a group of lowlifes that have nothing to loose. I fear with the total lack of morality this country has dropped to, the cesspool of scumbags will likely overrun most people that were able to become self sufficient. The other thing that really bothers me is people that you may think you could rely on will actually turn on you to save themselves. In time of crisis, it will not be easy for me to trust anyone, especially when things get really bad. All the guns and ammo stashed back will be useless if you cant trust to turn your back around the ones you may need to rely on. In desperate times many people will do things so much out of character without any concern of consequence. Basically whatever it takes to keep themselves alive and what they think needed to accomplish that. Unless a really rural area is somewhat self sufficient with stable minded citizens, it will become some type of warlord society. Many of the locals will also want to allow their extended family and friends to join them initially after the calamity. The extremists will be strongly apposed to anything like this. Just from the friction from differing arguments will eventually lead to some type of tyranny. I recall reading Animal Farm in Jr High School...

[UncleFudd]

Good point and thoughts.

The problem is, we don't have any idea how bad it will become or how quickly or where it will begin.
If it becomes so bad the infrastructure fails, no electricity, etc. there will be no water, forget the computers, radios TVs. How do you get to water?

If it actually gets that bad, I believe there will be a huge die-off in a matter of days and more as the weeks go by if it continues. Lack of medicines for those on critical meds for instance and for those who require critical care of any kind. Then the masses will become lost as there will be nothing in the stores or any place other than with those who have prepared in some manner.

So the gangs begin to form and to forage and 24 X 7 security will be absolutely necessary. As fordtrucks points out, who do you trust? If you have family come to live in your compound, home do they have and bring the things necessary for them to survive or does it come to you to provide and herein lies another potential problem. Greed will quickly form and become problematic even in families. But it will be necessary to have more than just you and your wife to maintain security and or to defend what you might have.

What about your local LEOs. Will they become a part of the roving gang situation and if so how will you deal with THEM!! Think it won't or can't then you are not reading or paying attention to recent history, (Katrina) for example. Many of the good officers left to take care of their families in the beginning. Others, (not all) just a few but some none the less did become a part of the gang situation invading homes etc and who can shoot an officer of the law?

In rural areas such as that close to us, there is already a large drug problem and survivalist groups that may quickly become roving gangs as they are already organized and armed. They are the ones who scare me the most from the outset and most certainly will have to be dealt with or defended against.

If you have water/well and it will eventually become known then you are a target very quickly and it will be very difficult to keep it unknown no matter how far out you may be and believe me I am a long way out and not surrounded by neighbors on ANY side.

Anyone who believes you can hole up in a cave and live off the land will quickly perish as there will be no game almost from the first day or certainly the first week or two and even if there is a few animals how will you get greens and veggies necessary? Cannot live on meat alone. And back to the water thing and it's proximity to your cave.

Bottom line I believe if it comes to a real, disaster and or failure and it lasts more than a month the security and willingness to use force without hesitation will be paramount to survival. All the prep and hoarding in the world will not help if you cannot protect it all day every day for the duration.

Just a few thoughts from an old man who believes if I last another 10 years I will witness some kind of system failure as we know it. But then I have heard this is coming and been preparing since Timothy Leary tried to walk on water.
Anyone remember that. Don't have to admit it here as it does have a tendency to date ones self.

UF

[Zhurh]

People still live a subsistence lifestyle where I call home; live off what the land & river provides. I know most can't fathom, appreciate, or access that type of lifestyle but when you are 200 miles from the nx nearest town or people (down a road that is closed more than open due to washouts & slides) you are much safer. Sure ain't suburbia out here.

Have a long lane with gate, mine is over 1000 feet. People around here already know who is welcome and who will get their windows shot out being lost where they shouldn't be. That's just reality when you live where there isn't any law enforcement for 200 miles. It's always been that way in our community. You always call before visiting somebody or you might get shot by accident. It has happened a few times over the years.

I still believe I could find places all over the rural west, just as safe as the boonies in Alaska. I think many Americans have never, ever lived any amount of time in a rural area where they made do with nx to nothing and did well. So it's completely foreign to them almost unfathomable to them. Believe me, it's out there and much more survivable than 50 miles out of any city back east; living on 25 acres in a fortress.

In the end, the thing is one has to about redirect their life to find such survivable locales. Look for other things like peace of mind, happiness, slower lifestyle; the safety comes as a bonus.

[prof_fate]

The boonies are safe as long as they are the boonies - great if you live there and better if everyone has everything they need. But if run out of food then what? Or if your neighbor does? Not everyone prepares...

I could build a bunker, stock it with a year's supply of food...or I could buy a surplus hummer, 10,000 rounds of ammo, build grenades, get body armour and just take over your save haven. Or try to which is the more likely scenario as what, half of the homes have guns but only has 3 days of food.

Yes, a large portion of the population will be dead in a month - medicine, violence, suicide, starvation perhaps. Only the strong survive...so those that are left are gonna be above average in their capabilities.

My initial thought is to bunker down in my basement (better would be a hidden bunker) for that month. Emerge carefully. Now what? I don't have horses (can't here) or sheep or such. If I had a garden it would be pillaged during that month, or if it happened now there's no food there anyway - so I need in April to plant crops that won't be ready to eat for 3 to 5 months, and I"ll possibly need to plant them ye old fashioned way (pehraps I can take my tiller and gas to the bunker...) So realistically I should have a year's supply of food. And no, I dont' want to live on this http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Surv.../dp/B0029BE7AW if I can have any other option.

I don't think escaping to a mountain retreat is a good plan - depends I guess on where you are and such, but a sudden incident will clog the roads and cause panic, a slower occurring one many not let you run, or someone can run before you and get your stuff, especially if you're planning a group safe house.

[carver]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

Forty-two percent of our citizens are on the Government dole, according to the latest reports. If our Government collapses, nearly half of the population will be dead in 6 mos. with nobody to supply their needs and wants. Those who don't die from starvation or disease will try to steal what they no longer get without having the skills or inclination to work for. With no penal or judicial system, vigilante justice will thin the herd, but at a high cost. Those who have the means and will to protect what is theirs will eventually triumph. In a year or less we will be thrust back into the pre-revolutionary war era, the only difference being higher tech weapons. If the electric grid fails, which it must, cell phones and computers will be useless. The rest of the infrastructure will follow and money will be useless. The country will be taken over by what can only be described as warlords who will rule ruthlessly. Whats to look forward too?

I don't see it being that bad, Oh it will be bad, no doubt. We all know that nature abhors a vacuum. I think that if our government fails there will be a new one within 6 months or less. It will probably be Socialist, but there is no way that a country like America will be with out some kind of Government for very long. The Chinese hold a large debt over this nation, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them set up as our new government. After all they probably feel that they own this country any way. Still, those of us that do survive will have to be ready to do so.

[Juker]

Many valid points here. Everyone's situation will vary depending on where they are and how they've prepared.

I don't think the human-sacrificing Mayans were all that clever, and certainly don't think the world is going to end because of predictions on a broken, carved rock that could just as easily read, "Zagdaf's sister is a slut". I don't think meteors are going to rain down on Earth until the Tribulation, and I won't be here for that - me and mine will be in a much better place.

But like so many folks, I feel in my bones that some seriously hard times are coming before the Rapture occurs. This country has been sold out, and between the collapsing economy, the muzzies, the illegals, the drug trade, the occupiers ... it certainly doesn't do any harm to put your available funds towards useful things instead of junk you don't need.

I worry about the very young, and the elderly, and the infirm. There will be millions of folks who never make it out of the cities. Think of the recent "Air Jordan riots", and try to tell yourself it can't happen here. Liquor and electronics will go before the receivers think about food. If no one's getting paid, the LEOs and military will have to worry about their own families and whether they should stay on duty. Millions of people on necessary prescription meds will soon be unable to get them, and millions more on anti-depressants are going to add to the chaos.

There are guys at my gun range who think they'll be picking off looters from their front porch rocker, with a can of Bud in one hand and a cigar clenched between their teeth. I reckon they think the mobs will march down their street like redcoats. So a valid question is, can you or I defend our home if a mob is trying to come in from all sides, or setting it on fire? And if a busload of nuns comes by with a load of children, will we feed them, or blame them for not being prepared? Points to ponder....

One thing's for sure - the price of gas is on the rise, meaning the cost of everything will go up this year. It doesn't take a fortune to start buying food, and everyone who's on the fence should start doing that now. Rice, Ramen, canned goods, potted meat and tuna. And several kinds of water filters.

I take infinite comfort in the certainty that the Lord is in control, and that any suffering endured here won't last forever before I go Home. I just ain't leaving this Earth without a fight.

[carver]

My point of view too, Juker. I would like to add one thing though. I see store bought water filters as a temporary fix to what may become a long term situation. So, I will just make my own water filter, and purify my own water.
http://www.practicalprimitive.com/sk...oalfilter.html

The wife, and I, have talked a lot about this situation, and I know that if the SHTF I won't be spending much time in the house. There I have a limited view of my property. While looking out the back window, I can't see what's out front. If the wife is looking out the front window, we can't see what's on the sides. If I really want to see a threat coming I have to be where I can see, and not be seen, besides, the house ain't bulletproof! There won't be any picking off looters from the front porch rocker, with a can of Bud in one hand and a cigar clenched between my teeth. I am hoping that my two boys, and maybe my brother, and his son, will be here to help. They all know that if the SHTF they are to come here. We can grow what we need.

[Juker]

That's a great link, Carver, thanks.

[prof_fate]

If it were only the Mayans you may be right, but the Hopi indians, the i ching, edgar cayce, catholic church, webbot...and perhps nostradamus or revelations if you feel confident in the interpretation.
Add in polar shift, solar flare, asteroids (nasa admits they can't see much beyond 2 months out and can't stop anything should they see it anyway), mega volcanoes, polar melting (at a much faster rate than anyone can explain).
Need we talk about oil, war, food, inflation or the like?

could be coincidence, or not. There are many things we don't understand (pyramid building, stonehenge, easter island monoliths, nazca lines, etc) so IMO we can't be 100% sure of anything. Much of what is believed has no basis in fact (jesus rising from the dead, joseph smith or moses talking to god, etc) and the bible has so much conflicting ideas in it (but that's another discussion).

I think we all agree something will happen eventually. What and when are open for debate. I know we'll all die - when and how we don't know.

What you do about it totally depends on your belief on what, and when. If you are truly a 'believer' that you'll go to heaven and things will be great there then don't prepare, don't fear it. I however believe in some form of major calamity that is nearer the webbot prediction.

We'll know perhaps in 6 weeks or so - apparently march 14 (give or take a few days) is said to be the beginning of something, or a date something 'worldwide' happens...

I hope nothing happens, but too many things say something's up to just ignore it. Heck, just predicting chaos can cause chaos...

a fun 2 minute read http://buburuza.net/2008/08/seven-re...cientifically/

[prof_fate]

Originally Posted by Juker

I take infinite comfort in the certainty that the Lord is in control, and that any suffering endured here won't last forever before I go Home. I just ain't leaving this Earth without a fight.

I was taught to kill oneself was a sin because God wanted you to live and to go against God was a sin. So logiclly then to resist, or prepare, for armageddon would also be a sin.

[Juker]

I believe the Rapture occurs first, heralding the beginning of the Tribulation, and that Armageddon occurs at the end of the 7-year Tribulation, when Christ returns to the Earth to vanquish Satan and his armies. I don't believe there are clues or codes that tell us when the Rapture will occur, for as Christ said in Mark 13:32: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

Preparations I'm making now are to get through calamaties that will take place before the Rapture.

As for laying down, and not resisting, well, I reckon I just ain't that kind of Christian.

Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.

Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. ... 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. .... 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

Esther 8:11-12 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...

Luke 22:35-36 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

Psalm 18:34 He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

[UncleFudd]

I'll prepare anyway the best that I can and then do whatever is possible to stay the course be it famine volcanos melting ice or the fall of our economy.

As for filtering water, good idea to have the filters but where will the water come from to filter it. Parts of Az and Tx etc are pretty dry unless it rains. Not much for that lately and a majority of the summer is dry.
Can't find a mud puddle to filter we may be spitting cotton balls.

uf

[carver]

Water is one of those things we must have! If it's not available where you live, then a move might be in order! Where I am there are creeks, ponds, rivers, and lakes. I have a pond on my place, and a creek not far away thru the woods.

[prof_fate]

If God be on our side, who is on theirs? (since all sides claim God is with them...)

Water I have - I have a rainbarrel for my garden and it's amazing how little rain it takes when collected off the roof to fill a 50 gallon drum. If you keep your gutters clean and watch for bugs/leaves (because they'll decompose in the barrel) it's likely drinkable as-is. A simple rock/sand filter isn't hard to make, and charcoal works well and can be made very easily as well. You can also add some iodine (or is iodide?) or even bleach - not much mind you, but chlorine works well to 'purify' the water.
And you can always boil it.

So much of the bible says how loving and forgiving god is...then he's smiting and killing and destroying things. If he's all powerful and perfect why/how did he make the devil, why did the angels rebel, and none of his creations are perfect, at least from our perspective (disease, birth defects, war and evil deeds, cannibalism (not just people eating people but black widow spiders and other creatures). Man made the bible (and left somethings out, different religions use different books in their bibles). And there are aliens - god made them - heck, god is an alien (an alien is a being not from the earth...angels, the devil and little green men are all aliens). No, if there is a god creator he's very hands off, and all religions are creations of Man and as well all know they've yet to make an organization that wasn't corrupt and self righteous)

You're welcome to believe what you want of course, but I've seen way too much "man" in the god/religion/bible concept to believe it any more than I believe what our politicians tell us.