Early Radom VIS - The Firearms Forum

bdfinst · 01-28-2007, 06:34 PM

I have a Radom pistol I purchased a few years ago and I'm wondering if anyone has information on it.

It's a first generation 3 lever Radom with Nazi markings and butt stock slot.

Serial: C74XX
Markings on slide are:
F.B.RADOM VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr 15567
"P.35(B)"

Also has several waffenamt markings (Eagle with "W&A 77" as well as eagle with "823")

Bluing is 99% with no holster wear and original barrel with bright bore.

The really interesting thing is the grips. Instead of the plastic grips I've seen, they appear to be walnut with the typical Radom markings stamped into them (FB on one side and VIS on the other). The grips do not appear to be late additions and I've not seen another set like them.

Name: Radom VIS.JPG
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Name: Radom VIS.JPG
Views: 9962
Size: 166.5 KB

Xracer · 01-29-2007, 08:54 AM

Well, I can't help you on the wooden grips. All of the early VIS P-35s (Radom was the arsenal where they were made) that I've seen had the plastic grips. The very late ones were parkerized, pretty crude, and had plain wooden grips.

Yours appears to be, indeed, and early Nazi Type I Slotted.....and if not a reblue, it appears to be in remarkable condition.

If that's the original finish, the Blue Book lists it at:

"P-35 Automatic Nazi Type 1 Slotted:

98% - $800
95% - $600
90% - $450
80% - $300"

The Blue Book also says...."Note: Certain Radoms with German acceptance marks will bring a premium"....but it doesn't say which or how much.

Anyway.....very pretty gun!

bdfinst · 01-29-2007, 06:45 PM

To my eye, not a refinish. The markings are all very sharp. Thanks for the info!

Bryan

stash247 · 02-02-2007, 10:33 PM

Looking at the pics, I would date it about 1938-39, a late commercial/early occupation pistol. Worth whatever you can get, but IMHO,the finish appears right for the timeframe, and original, from the markings.
That being said, were I to own the gun, and wish to sell it, I'd put no less than $1500US on the tag, and expect close to that.
This appears to be an unmolested sample of the european gun trade, before the war, excepting only the slotting of the butt, which was arguably, a wartime change; the gun is entirely too clean to sell at bargain price.

BIGBOOMER · 02-02-2007, 11:02 PM

I had an early pre-occupation VIS P-35, ser. # under 2000 with no prefix or suffix. It had an extremely smooth, glassy finish (polish) but with a satin gloss bluing. There was not a tool mark on that gun, inside or out, and it was probably the most accurate 9m/m, or service pistol for that matter, that I have ever encountered. It put commercial pistols to shame with its worksmanship. It had the Polish eagle on the slide, and there were no German markings. It had black hard rubber or plastic grips, and did have the slot milled into the backstrap for a detachable stock.
I have had some early occcupation ones too, like the one you have here, and they were very nice pistols, but did not compare to the early pre-occupation one. I've had examples of those with the plastic grips and with the impressed wooden grips such as yours has.
Best regards, BIGBOOMER

bdfinst · 02-03-2007, 09:19 PM

Now a pre-occupation version is a nice piece. One of the rare instances where the LACK of Nazi markings increases the value.

According to all of the history I've read, the slot for the buttstock is original to the design. Not very many buttstocks were issued though and the slot was deleted in later versions.

Based on the feedback, I did pretty well on the purchase. :-)

jonson911 · 03-20-2007, 08:09 PM

I have a P.35 in very fine condition that seems to be unusual. The serial number is "1950" with no prefix, apparently making it a pre-occupation piece. It has the WaAmt proof marks, three levers, and a shoulder stock socket so I'm guessing it's from the first group after the German invasion - maybe one of a production run that was under way when the factory was taken over since the SN doesn't follow German practice, as I understand it. Anyhow, this one is pretty nice - glassy finish, blueing showing only holster wear, no rust or pitting, bright rifling, etc. The holster (also with WaAmt stamp) was cut down (during the War) from the original, for shoulder wear.

If anyone has any ideas about this gun I'd like to hear them. It has been in my family since maybe 1945 when my uncle brought it back from Europe. I have no idea where he got it. He was in the Royal Canadian Air Force, so he probably won it in a card game or something.

stash247 · 03-20-2007, 08:41 PM

jonson, your pistol was likely 'conficated' as a compteted arm, still in the factory, and got the Waffen stamps, accordingly. I'm working off the top of my head, but production date ought to be '36, '37. Very early, and these were awsome, in workmanship!
Given the provenance, it seems unlikely that it will ever be sold, but, it is a significant weapon; so said, schedule it separately, on your Homeowner's policy, at not less than $1500; you could never replace it, but this is what I would prepare to spend for a comparable pistol; the Holster might well bring $200. Hope this helps!

measure · 03-31-2008, 02:16 PM

RADOM VIZ 35. Markings on the left side : The polish Eagle. To the left of it : F. B. Radom over 1938 – To the right - VIS-wz 35 over pat. Nr. 15567. In fornt of trigger : Inside an Oval, D over 2. On the right side : S/N : 155XX (no letters here) – On the trigger both left and right side : Markings.
Inside : 155XX - Barrel : 882
Black bakkelit grip. Exellent condition.
Having an original clening rod too.

ehughes · 03-31-2008, 03:37 PM

What would one with the stock be valued at?

stash247 · 04-01-2008, 10:17 PM

Mr Hughes, a pistol as nice as these, WITH a matching numbered stock, would be a 'write your own check', kinda deal, as they just do not turn up!
I suspect I could walk one into the HGCA, show, the Tulsa/Wannamacher show, or the show in Vegas, and buy a used car, with the proceeds; eucated guess, mid four figures.

ehughes · 04-02-2008, 06:12 PM

wow, i asked because a friend of mine has one......guess I should tell him that....

SCHARFSHUTZEN · 04-02-2008, 11:50 PM

A STOCK LIKE THIS? CHARLIE, K

SCHARFSHUTZEN · 04-02-2008, 11:55 PM

OR, LIKE THIS. CHARLIE, K

SCHARFSHUTZEN · 04-03-2008, 10:22 PM

stash247,
Thank you for your comment on my Radom pistol and stock, I was thinking of
putting it in the gun auction.
but I didn't think it could bring that much, I figured if I got $4000.00 or
$5000.00 I would be happy.
What are your thoughts on the other stock?
thanks
charlie, k

Brynele · 04-05-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBOOMER

I had an early pre-occupation VIS P-35, ser. # under 2000 with no prefix or suffix. It had an extremely smooth, glassy finish (polish) but with a satin gloss bluing. There was not a tool mark on that gun, inside or out, and it was probably the most accurate 9m/m, or service pistol for that matter, that I have ever encountered. It put commercial pistols to shame with its worksmanship. It had the Polish eagle on the slide, and there were no German markings. It had black hard rubber or plastic grips, and did have the slot milled into the backstrap for a detachable stock.
I have had some early occcupation ones too, like the one you have here, and they were very nice pistols, but did not compare to the early pre-occupation one. I've had examples of those with the plastic grips and with the impressed wooden grips such as yours has.
Best regards, BIGBOOMER

rura48 · 10-25-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by measure

RADOM VIZ 35. Markings on the left side : The polish Eagle. To the left of it : F. B. Radom over 1938 – To the right - VIS-wz 35 over pat. Nr. 15567. In fornt of trigger : Inside an Oval, D over 2. On the right side : S/N : 155XX (no letters here) – On the trigger both left and right side : Markings.
Inside : 155XX - Barrel : 882
Black bakkelit grip. Exellent condition.
Having an original clening rod too.

rura48 · 10-25-2008, 07:59 AM

I found your old mail wit VIZ 35 1938. Would you like to sell it ?
Regards Jan

wonderwhippet · 10-25-2008, 09:57 AM

These stocks were made by an individual named Tom Nelson years ago based on a genuine drawing from the Radom factory. It is believed that no originals were ever made. Tom could not get them approved for sale by the ATF. Some have turned up for sale at various gun shows, including the Wanamacher Tulsa show at very high prices, but there are no known originals.

zbysiu23 · 10-28-2008, 05:36 PM

Hi,
Just FYI in case anybody would be thinking of selling an early nazi Radom or Polish Eagle VIS.. Please let me know...
Chris

Moose · 10-31-2008, 10:20 AM

I have an early Nazi Radom I might want to depart with. It's a Grade 2 model, doesn't have the stock slot but it does have a takedown lever. It has the black plastic grips and the eagle markings. I also have the original holster.

Jesse Keeton · 11-12-2008, 10:07 AM

I have an old grade 2 which I bought At Ft. Knox in the 60's when I could only afford $35 for a gun. It has been rattling around my gun box ever since. I took it to the local Shoot Straight a couple days ago just to see if it would still fire. It did not take long to rediscover why I still have it. Thirty rounds OBLITERATED the 10 ring at 25 yds.!! Another thirty at 50 dropped 4 in the 9 ring (I don't blame the gun for those). A butt ugly thing with all kinds if rough factory finishings but a pleasure to shoot.

kylec40 · 12-26-2008, 03:15 PM

I have come across a Early Radom pistol from WWII and was wondering if anyone could give me some info on it's history and a value. The pistol has "F.B.RADOM VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr 15567" on the left side and a serial number "00000" on the right side. Could be the first one of it's kind with that serial number?? It has a de-cocker, a groove on the back of the grip for a detachable stock and a lanyard loop on the bottom. It has several German/Nazi and Polish markings on it and appears to be in excellent shape. Don't know much else about the gun except for some of the story about where it was found over in Europe.

zbysiu23 · 12-26-2008, 11:00 PM

The picture would help... also what kind and where are the markings especially the Polish ones.. The "groove" or maybe the stock slot indicates the early one , although there are cases especially from the end of the war that the nazis were puting together weapons from any found pieces pretty much anything they could gather ...
Does the slide have the Polish Crowned Eagle? and year markings?
You are welcome to contact me via e-mail or PM,
Once we get the details ..we could pretty close identify where in time the pistol belongs...

zbysiu@yahoo.com
zbysiu@sbcglobal.net

Chris

ptryn · 12-30-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylec40

I have come across a Early Radom pistol from WWII and was wondering if anyone could give me some info on it's history and a value. The pistol has "F.B.RADOM VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr 15567" on the left side and a serial number "00000" on the right side. Could be the first one of it's kind with that serial number?? It has a de-cocker, a groove on the back of the grip for a detachable stock and a lanyard loop on the bottom. It has several German/Nazi and Polish markings on it and appears to be in excellent shape. Don't know much else about the gun except for some of the story about where it was found over in Europe.

I would be interested in your VIS as well. Can you post pics? Please contact me at ptryn@usa.net

01-28-2007, 06:34 PM	#1
bdfinst Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Early Radom VIS I have a Radom pistol I purchased a few years ago and I'm wondering if anyone has information on it. It's a first generation 3 lever Radom with Nazi markings and butt stock slot. Serial: C74XX Markings on slide are: F.B.RADOM VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr 15567 "P.35(B)" Also has several waffenamt markings (Eagle with "W&A 77" as well as eagle with "823") Bluing is 99% with no holster wear and original barrel with bright bore. The really interesting thing is the grips. Instead of the plastic grips I've seen, they appear to be walnut with the typical Radom markings stamped into them (FB on one side and VIS on the other). The grips do not appear to be late additions and I've not seen another set like them. -->

01-29-2007, 08:54 AM	#2
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: Early Radom VIS Well, I can't help you on the wooden grips. All of the early VIS P-35s (Radom was the arsenal where they were made) that I've seen had the plastic grips. The very late ones were parkerized, pretty crude, and had plain wooden grips. Yours appears to be, indeed, and early Nazi Type I Slotted.....and if not a reblue, it appears to be in remarkable condition. If that's the original finish, the Blue Book lists it at: "P-35 Automatic Nazi Type 1 Slotted: 98% - $800 95% - $600 90% - $450 80% - $300" The Blue Book also says...."Note: Certain Radoms with German acceptance marks will bring a premium"....but it doesn't say which or how much. Anyway.....very pretty gun!

01-29-2007, 06:45 PM	#3
bdfinst Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Re: Early Radom VIS To my eye, not a refinish. The markings are all very sharp. Thanks for the info! Bryan

02-02-2007, 10:33 PM	#4
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Early Radom VIS Looking at the pics, I would date it about 1938-39, a late commercial/early occupation pistol. Worth whatever you can get, but IMHO,the finish appears right for the timeframe, and original, from the markings. That being said, were I to own the gun, and wish to sell it, I'd put no less than $1500US on the tag, and expect close to that. This appears to be an unmolested sample of the european gun trade, before the war, excepting only the slotting of the butt, which was arguably, a wartime change; the gun is entirely too clean to sell at bargain price. __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

02-02-2007, 11:02 PM	#5
BIGBOOMER V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Great Northwest Posts: 265	Re: Early Radom VIS I had an early pre-occupation VIS P-35, ser. # under 2000 with no prefix or suffix. It had an extremely smooth, glassy finish (polish) but with a satin gloss bluing. There was not a tool mark on that gun, inside or out, and it was probably the most accurate 9m/m, or service pistol for that matter, that I have ever encountered. It put commercial pistols to shame with its worksmanship. It had the Polish eagle on the slide, and there were no German markings. It had black hard rubber or plastic grips, and did have the slot milled into the backstrap for a detachable stock. I have had some early occcupation ones too, like the one you have here, and they were very nice pistols, but did not compare to the early pre-occupation one. I've had examples of those with the plastic grips and with the impressed wooden grips such as yours has. Best regards, BIGBOOMER __________________ Use Enough Gun. Do all your hunting BEFORE you shoot!

02-03-2007, 09:19 PM	#6
bdfinst Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Re: Early Radom VIS Now a pre-occupation version is a nice piece. One of the rare instances where the LACK of Nazi markings increases the value. According to all of the history I've read, the slot for the buttstock is original to the design. Not very many buttstocks were issued though and the slot was deleted in later versions. Based on the feedback, I did pretty well on the purchase. :-)

03-20-2007, 08:09 PM	#7
jonson911 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Pahokee Republic Posts: 1	Re: Early Radom VIS I have a P.35 in very fine condition that seems to be unusual. The serial number is "1950" with no prefix, apparently making it a pre-occupation piece. It has the WaAmt proof marks, three levers, and a shoulder stock socket so I'm guessing it's from the first group after the German invasion - maybe one of a production run that was under way when the factory was taken over since the SN doesn't follow German practice, as I understand it. Anyhow, this one is pretty nice - glassy finish, blueing showing only holster wear, no rust or pitting, bright rifling, etc. The holster (also with WaAmt stamp) was cut down (during the War) from the original, for shoulder wear. If anyone has any ideas about this gun I'd like to hear them. It has been in my family since maybe 1945 when my uncle brought it back from Europe. I have no idea where he got it. He was in the Royal Canadian Air Force, so he probably won it in a card game or something.

03-20-2007, 08:41 PM	#8
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Early Radom VIS jonson, your pistol was likely 'conficated' as a compteted arm, still in the factory, and got the Waffen stamps, accordingly. I'm working off the top of my head, but production date ought to be '36, '37. Very early, and these were awsome, in workmanship! Given the provenance, it seems unlikely that it will ever be sold, but, it is a significant weapon; so said, schedule it separately, on your Homeowner's policy, at not less than $1500; you could never replace it, but this is what I would prepare to spend for a comparable pistol; the Holster might well bring $200. Hope this helps! __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

03-31-2008, 02:16 PM	#9
measure Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1	Re: Early Radom VIS RADOM VIZ 35. Markings on the left side : The polish Eagle. To the left of it : F. B. Radom over 1938 – To the right - VIS-wz 35 over pat. Nr. 15567. In fornt of trigger : Inside an Oval, D over 2. On the right side : S/N : 155XX (no letters here) – On the trigger both left and right side : Markings. Inside : 155XX - Barrel : 882 Black bakkelit grip. Exellent condition. Having an original clening rod too. Attached Images

03-31-2008, 03:37 PM	#10
ehughes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 161	Re: Early Radom VIS What would one with the stock be valued at? __________________ FYI you can not, I repeat NOT carry a Winchester 94 in an ankle holster, especially with pointed bullets, that thing almost shot my foot off!

04-01-2008, 10:17 PM	#11
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Early Radom VIS Mr Hughes, a pistol as nice as these, WITH a matching numbered stock, would be a 'write your own check', kinda deal, as they just do not turn up! I suspect I could walk one into the HGCA, show, the Tulsa/Wannamacher show, or the show in Vegas, and buy a used car, with the proceeds; eucated guess, mid four figures. __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

04-02-2008, 06:12 PM	#12
ehughes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 161	Re: Early Radom VIS wow, i asked because a friend of mine has one......guess I should tell him that.... __________________ FYI you can not, I repeat NOT carry a Winchester 94 in an ankle holster, especially with pointed bullets, that thing almost shot my foot off!

04-02-2008, 11:50 PM	#13
SCHARFSHUTZEN Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 31	Re: Early Radom VIS A STOCK LIKE THIS? CHARLIE, K Attached Images __________________ HE WHO EXPECTS "NOTHING" IS SELDOM DISAPPOINTED.

04-02-2008, 11:55 PM	#14
SCHARFSHUTZEN Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 31	Re: Early Radom VIS OR, LIKE THIS. CHARLIE, K Attached Images __________________ HE WHO EXPECTS "NOTHING" IS SELDOM DISAPPOINTED.

04-03-2008, 10:22 PM	#15
SCHARFSHUTZEN Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 31	Re: Early Radom VIS stash247, Thank you for your comment on my Radom pistol and stock, I was thinking of putting it in the gun auction. but I didn't think it could bring that much, I figured if I got $4000.00 or $5000.00 I would be happy. What are your thoughts on the other stock? thanks charlie, k __________________ HE WHO EXPECTS "NOTHING" IS SELDOM DISAPPOINTED.

10-25-2008, 07:59 AM	#18
rura48 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3	Re: Early Radom VIS I found your old mail wit VIZ 35 1938. Would you like to sell it ? Regards Jan

10-25-2008, 09:57 AM	#19
wonderwhippet Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,599	Re: Early Radom VIS These stocks were made by an individual named Tom Nelson years ago based on a genuine drawing from the Radom factory. It is believed that no originals were ever made. Tom could not get them approved for sale by the ATF. Some have turned up for sale at various gun shows, including the Wanamacher Tulsa show at very high prices, but there are no known originals.

10-28-2008, 05:36 PM	#20
zbysiu23 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Early Radom VIS Hi, Just FYI in case anybody would be thinking of selling an early nazi Radom or Polish Eagle VIS.. Please let me know... Chris

10-31-2008, 10:20 AM	#21
Moose Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 1	Re: Early Radom VIS I have an early Nazi Radom I might want to depart with. It's a Grade 2 model, doesn't have the stock slot but it does have a takedown lever. It has the black plastic grips and the eagle markings. I also have the original holster.

11-12-2008, 10:07 AM	#22
Jesse Keeton Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1	Re: Early Radom VIS I have an old grade 2 which I bought At Ft. Knox in the 60's when I could only afford $35 for a gun. It has been rattling around my gun box ever since. I took it to the local Shoot Straight a couple days ago just to see if it would still fire. It did not take long to rediscover why I still have it. Thirty rounds OBLITERATED the 10 ring at 25 yds.!! Another thirty at 50 dropped 4 in the 9 ring (I don't blame the gun for those). A butt ugly thing with all kinds if rough factory finishings but a pleasure to shoot.

12-26-2008, 03:15 PM	#23
kylec40 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1	Re: Early Radom VIS I have come across a Early Radom pistol from WWII and was wondering if anyone could give me some info on it's history and a value. The pistol has "F.B.RADOM VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr 15567" on the left side and a serial number "00000" on the right side. Could be the first one of it's kind with that serial number?? It has a de-cocker, a groove on the back of the grip for a detachable stock and a lanyard loop on the bottom. It has several German/Nazi and Polish markings on it and appears to be in excellent shape. Don't know much else about the gun except for some of the story about where it was found over in Europe.

12-26-2008, 11:00 PM	#24
zbysiu23 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Early Radom VIS The picture would help... also what kind and where are the markings especially the Polish ones.. The "groove" or maybe the stock slot indicates the early one , although there are cases especially from the end of the war that the nazis were puting together weapons from any found pieces pretty much anything they could gather ... Does the slide have the Polish Crowned Eagle? and year markings? You are welcome to contact me via e-mail or PM, Once we get the details ..we could pretty close identify where in time the pistol belongs... zbysiu@yahoo.com zbysiu@sbcglobal.net Chris Last edited by zbysiu23; 12-26-2008 at 11:05 PM..