Church Shooter Had Arsenal - The Firearms Forum

artabr · 03-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Well it looks like the firearms experts in the press are at it again.
It seems that 2 shotguns, a rifle and a bulk box of .22's constitutes an arsenal.

Hell, now I feel good. By their thinking (pun intended) I must have 3 or 4 arsenals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/...hurch_shooting

Church shooting suspect had arsenal in bedroom

Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer – Wed Mar 11, 5:01 am ET AP – ST. LOUIS –

A man accused of running down and shooting an Illinois pastor to death mid-sermon left an arsenal of guns in his bedroom as well as an index card marked "Last Day Will."

The arsenal in accused gunman Terry Sedlacek's room included two 12-gauge shotguns, a rifle and a box of 550 .22-caliber bullets, according to court documents filed Tuesday.

The inventory of items seized from Sedlacek's Troy, Ill., home also lists the "Last Day Will" index card but does not detail what else was written on it. Sedlacek's day planner also singled out Sunday as "death day," prosecutor William Mudge has said.

Authorities have said Sedlacek, 27, fired four times from a .45-caliber Glock handgun, hitting the Rev. Fred Winters once with a bullet that ripped through the preacher's heart before he collapsed and bled to death Sunday at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill.

Authorities said Sedlacek also brought to the church enough ammunition to perhaps kill 30 people.

Sedlacek is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated battery, the latter charges related to his alleged wounding with a knife of two congregants who wrestled him to the ground and subdued him after the shooting.

Sedlacek remained in serious condition Tuesday in a St. Louis hospital with self-inflicted stab wounds to the throat. One of the injured congregants, Terry Bullard, was upgraded to fair condition.

Investigators say they still haven't pinpointed why Sedlacek allegedly strolled into the church during its early Sunday service, packing a pistol and 30 bullets — 10 in each of the three magazines he brought along.

A new affidavit by Illinois State Police detective James Walker said Sedlacek entered the sanctuary and walked down an aisle to the front of the church toward Winters, 45, who addressed him.

Walker wrote that Sedlacek then fired at Winters; investigators have said the first bullet clipped the top of the Bible the preacher held, sending pieces of it spraying like confetti and appearing to many of the roughly 150 onlookers to be part of a skit.

Winters then bolted toward the edge of the stage with Sedlacek running parallel to him, Walker wrote.

"Pastor Winters then jumped from the stage where he landed on the ground. Sedlacek then placed himself next to the pastor and fired multiple shots, striking Winters," Walker's affidavit read.

Investigators have said Sedlacek fired four rounds altogether before his gun jammed. After chasing and mortally wounding Winters, Walker wrote, Sedlacek tried to flee but was subdued by Bullard and Keith Melton.

"The way I feel in my heart is my pastor needed help and I had to help. I can't relate that back to anything. That's just how I feel about it," Melton said. "I've been in car accidents before where it seems like it's slow motion. But this was over so fast, it's harder to make sense of it."

It remains unclear whether Sedlacek even knew Winters, a married father of two who led First Baptist Church for nearly 22 years.

Authorities have not revealed the verbal exchange between the gunman and Winters, who was wearing a body microphone. Mudge, Madison County's state's attorney, has listened to the audio recording but won't publicly discuss it, his spokeswoman Stephanee Smith said Tuesday.

Smith also said Sedlacek has previously been issued a firearm owner's identification card, though Illinois State Police spokesman Scott Compton said Sedlacek did not have a valid one.

Sedlacek attended Southwestern Illinois College in Granite City from August of 2006 until May of 2008, pursuing an associate's degree in computer information systems, but never graduated, registration clerk Julie Boeschen said Tuesday.

Calls to the home he shared with his mother and stepfather went unanswered Tuesday, as have repeated visits to the house since the shooting.

Sedlacek's attorney, Ron Slemer, has told the Belleville News-Democrat that his client's family is "very sorry for the pastor's congregation." Slemer also has said Sedlacek has deteriorated both mentally and physically since contracting Lyme disease.

The attorney has not returned numerous messages left by The Associated Press at his home and office.

___

Associated Press writer Tammy Webber in Chicago and AP videographer George Wise in St. Louis contributed to this report.

___

Art

mrkirker · 03-11-2009, 10:34 AM

Well, I guess if one had no 'arsenal' - it might look like an arsenal. Point of reference, I guess.

The whole darn thing sickens me; the 'act', the press, the finger-pointing. My heart goes out to the families so injured, and to the communities involved, also. For they, as well, are injured. Time may heal, but scars remain.

4EvrLearning · 03-11-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkirker

Well, I guess if one had no 'arsenal' - it might look like an arsenal. Point of reference, I guess.

The whole darn thing sickens me; the 'act', the press, the finger-pointing. My heart goes out to the families so injured, and to the communities involved, also. For they, as well, are injured. Time may heal, but scars remain.

+1

glocknut · 03-11-2009, 12:03 PM

The cops are willing to call such a pitiful collection an "arsenal" ? When i read that the first thing that came to mind is that question that keeps getting bounced around every now and then... would the cops willingly go door to door to confiscate weapons if the lawmakers told them to....

I think the question is...YES? Hey, if they're so FEEBLE MINDED to actually believe that a collection like that is an arsenal then they are weak minded enough to do anything...

mike
gn

Doug.38PR · 03-11-2009, 12:37 PM

If that is an "arsenal"...they are going to freak if they ever find mine

gdmoody · 03-11-2009, 12:40 PM

WOW - I hate to think what they would have to say about my small collection (50+) if his was an arsenal.

He shot with a .45 Glock but they found no .45 ammo in his "arsenal" so I guess he took all his .45 ammo to the church.

pinecone70 · 03-11-2009, 12:47 PM

I guess I have an arsenal, by definition.

My old Webster's defines 'arsenal' as: 1. A place for storing and manufacturing arms and ammunition. 2. A supply or stock.

Looks like the media nerds go by the very basic definition, and seal the deal by making it sound scary to the general public.

mrkirker · 03-11-2009, 12:48 PM

seal the deal by making it sound scary to the general public.
Go to the head of the class, young lady!

SaddleSarge · 03-11-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glocknut

The cops are willing to call such a pitiful collection an "arsenal" ? mike
gn

Unless I missed it 5 times, I couldn't find where "cops" made the statement of an "arsenal." The news reporter did in their writings, but there were no quotes that the statement came from the cops. The prosecutor referred to it as, "inventory of items," and "Authorities said Sedlacek also brought to the church enough ammunition to perhaps kill 30 people."

The only one to refer to the "arsenal" was Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr (edit): because documents given to the court, by the DA's office, included merely a property list of recovered items.

We recently recovered over $15K of stolen construction equipment. There were two shotguns taken in the midst of the booty. Did the press photo all the solar panels, cutoff saws, etc... for their article? Nope. Two 870 shotguns were all that made the photo for the article.

This is your liberal media at work.

358 winchester · 03-11-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug.38PR

If that is an "arsenal"...they are going to freak if they ever find mine

Yep they will crap their pants when they open the door to my 12 x 24 GUN BUILDING

bcj1755 · 03-11-2009, 05:14 PM

Hmmm....I wonder if I have an arsenal

ponycar17 · 03-11-2009, 05:30 PM

I read this BS at lunch and just rolled my eyes. This is AP 'Activist Journalism' at it's worst...

This AP wuss now has some oblivious soccer mom or 'metrosexual' male, scared to go outside without having his nails manicured, thinking a 6" cube box off ammo that costs $15.00 comprises an arsenal of ammunition...

What a damn moron!

38 special · 03-11-2009, 06:11 PM

Apparently He didn't even have the basic needed guns let alone an arsenal. What about a deer rifle and a varmint rifle? Heck He didnt even have the bare minimum although He had 1 more shotgun than necessary.lol

LeSabreUltra · 03-11-2009, 06:26 PM

Interesting. I'm glad they defined arsenal for me. I guess that makes the Chevy and Buick in my driveway a fleet.
.
.
.

Vladimir · 03-11-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artabr

Investigators say they still haven't pinpointed why Sedlacek allegedly strolled into the church during its early Sunday service, packing a pistol and 30 bullets — 10 in each of the three magazines he brought along.

Thank god he didn't have "hi-cap" mags, the horror was clearly marginalized by his 10-round capacity.

jacksonco · 03-12-2009, 01:43 AM

Pinecone is correct. Websters defines arsenal as (1) a place where weapons are manufactured and stored and (2) a collection of weapons.

Item number (2) would make any place that more than 1 weapon was stored an arsenal.

Problem here is public perception of the word is a large cache of military type weaponry. I have a small arsenal of my own which I am most proud to say is much larger that that idiots stash.

1shot1k · 03-12-2009, 01:52 AM

It seems to be a fact that the mainstream media remains at a leftist slant , this , coupled with the "expected" accuracy drops expected by reports...the conservative or gun and 2nd crowds as ourselves , do not seem to ever have a fair enough representaion...

the only exception to this seems to be...in my kneck of the woods anyway and others...is when the report is of " poor old granny yields 1860 Colt Dragoon and scares robber off back porch.." ....for some reason , these stories seem to mend the bridges temporarily .....

we definitely need more positive "gun" info within media.

I guess Im gettin too old ...seems I can remember the time when the story " MAN ARMED TO THE TEETH ! "

was about 2nd page story where " mailman bites dog.."

cosmo05 · 03-12-2009, 04:07 AM

If that's an arsenal, then I'm the envy some 3rd world countries. The bad part is, misinformed people actually believe that anything more than one gun and one bullet is an arsenal.

03-11-2009, 10:26 AM	#1
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Church Shooter Had Arsenal Well it looks like the firearms experts in the press are at it again. It seems that 2 shotguns, a rifle and a bulk box of .22's constitutes an arsenal. Hell, now I feel good. By their thinking (pun intended) I must have 3 or 4 arsenals. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/...hurch_shooting Church shooting suspect had arsenal in bedroom Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer – Wed Mar 11, 5:01 am ET AP – ST. LOUIS – A man accused of running down and shooting an Illinois pastor to death mid-sermon left an arsenal of guns in his bedroom as well as an index card marked "Last Day Will." The arsenal in accused gunman Terry Sedlacek's room included two 12-gauge shotguns, a rifle and a box of 550 .22-caliber bullets, according to court documents filed Tuesday. The inventory of items seized from Sedlacek's Troy, Ill., home also lists the "Last Day Will" index card but does not detail what else was written on it. Sedlacek's day planner also singled out Sunday as "death day," prosecutor William Mudge has said. Authorities have said Sedlacek, 27, fired four times from a .45-caliber Glock handgun, hitting the Rev. Fred Winters once with a bullet that ripped through the preacher's heart before he collapsed and bled to death Sunday at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill. Authorities said Sedlacek also brought to the church enough ammunition to perhaps kill 30 people. Sedlacek is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated battery, the latter charges related to his alleged wounding with a knife of two congregants who wrestled him to the ground and subdued him after the shooting. Sedlacek remained in serious condition Tuesday in a St. Louis hospital with self-inflicted stab wounds to the throat. One of the injured congregants, Terry Bullard, was upgraded to fair condition. Investigators say they still haven't pinpointed why Sedlacek allegedly strolled into the church during its early Sunday service, packing a pistol and 30 bullets — 10 in each of the three magazines he brought along. A new affidavit by Illinois State Police detective James Walker said Sedlacek entered the sanctuary and walked down an aisle to the front of the church toward Winters, 45, who addressed him. Walker wrote that Sedlacek then fired at Winters; investigators have said the first bullet clipped the top of the Bible the preacher held, sending pieces of it spraying like confetti and appearing to many of the roughly 150 onlookers to be part of a skit. Winters then bolted toward the edge of the stage with Sedlacek running parallel to him, Walker wrote. "Pastor Winters then jumped from the stage where he landed on the ground. Sedlacek then placed himself next to the pastor and fired multiple shots, striking Winters," Walker's affidavit read. Investigators have said Sedlacek fired four rounds altogether before his gun jammed. After chasing and mortally wounding Winters, Walker wrote, Sedlacek tried to flee but was subdued by Bullard and Keith Melton. "The way I feel in my heart is my pastor needed help and I had to help. I can't relate that back to anything. That's just how I feel about it," Melton said. "I've been in car accidents before where it seems like it's slow motion. But this was over so fast, it's harder to make sense of it." It remains unclear whether Sedlacek even knew Winters, a married father of two who led First Baptist Church for nearly 22 years. Authorities have not revealed the verbal exchange between the gunman and Winters, who was wearing a body microphone. Mudge, Madison County's state's attorney, has listened to the audio recording but won't publicly discuss it, his spokeswoman Stephanee Smith said Tuesday. Smith also said Sedlacek has previously been issued a firearm owner's identification card, though Illinois State Police spokesman Scott Compton said Sedlacek did not have a valid one. Sedlacek attended Southwestern Illinois College in Granite City from August of 2006 until May of 2008, pursuing an associate's degree in computer information systems, but never graduated, registration clerk Julie Boeschen said Tuesday. Calls to the home he shared with his mother and stepfather went unanswered Tuesday, as have repeated visits to the house since the shooting. Sedlacek's attorney, Ron Slemer, has told the Belleville News-Democrat that his client's family is "very sorry for the pastor's congregation." Slemer also has said Sedlacek has deteriorated both mentally and physically since contracting Lyme disease. The attorney has not returned numerous messages left by The Associated Press at his home and office. ___ Associated Press writer Tammy Webber in Chicago and AP videographer George Wise in St. Louis contributed to this report. ___ Art __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! --> Last edited by artabr; 03-11-2009 at 10:27 AM..

03-11-2009, 10:34 AM	#2
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal Well, I guess if one had no 'arsenal' - it might look like an arsenal. Point of reference, I guess. The whole darn thing sickens me; the 'act', the press, the finger-pointing. My heart goes out to the families so injured, and to the communities involved, also. For they, as well, are injured. Time may heal, but scars remain. __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

03-11-2009, 12:03 PM	#4
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal The cops are willing to call such a pitiful collection an "arsenal" ? When i read that the first thing that came to mind is that question that keeps getting bounced around every now and then... would the cops willingly go door to door to confiscate weapons if the lawmakers told them to.... I think the question is...YES? Hey, if they're so FEEBLE MINDED to actually believe that a collection like that is an arsenal then they are weak minded enough to do anything... mike gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....

03-11-2009, 12:37 PM	#5
Doug.38PR V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 246	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal If that is an "arsenal"...they are going to freak if they ever find mine

03-11-2009, 12:40 PM	#6
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,354	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal WOW - I hate to think what they would have to say about my small collection (50+) if his was an arsenal. He shot with a .45 Glock but they found no .45 ammo in his "arsenal" so I guess he took all his .45 ammo to the church. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

03-11-2009, 12:47 PM	#7
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal I guess I have an arsenal, by definition. My old Webster's defines 'arsenal' as: 1. A place for storing and manufacturing arms and ammunition. 2. A supply or stock. Looks like the media nerds go by the very basic definition, and seal the deal by making it sound scary to the general public. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

03-11-2009, 12:48 PM	#8
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal seal the deal by making it sound scary to the general public. Go to the head of the class, young lady! __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

03-11-2009, 05:14 PM	#11
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal Hmmm....I wonder if I have an arsenal __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

03-11-2009, 05:30 PM	#12
ponycar17 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal I read this BS at lunch and just rolled my eyes. This is AP 'Activist Journalism' at it's worst... This AP wuss now has some oblivious soccer mom or 'metrosexual' male, scared to go outside without having his nails manicured, thinking a 6" cube box off ammo that costs $15.00 comprises an arsenal of ammunition... What a damn moron! __________________ Arm yourself with intellectual Ammunition! Gunfacts 5.1 Myth-Busting Facts JustFacts.com on Gun Control Stopping Power, the Downloadable Book Last edited by ponycar17; 03-11-2009 at 05:34 PM..

03-11-2009, 06:11 PM	#13
38 special Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 548	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal Apparently He didn't even have the basic needed guns let alone an arsenal. What about a deer rifle and a varmint rifle? Heck He didnt even have the bare minimum although He had 1 more shotgun than necessary.lol

03-11-2009, 06:26 PM	#14
LeSabreUltra V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 102	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal Interesting. I'm glad they defined arsenal for me. I guess that makes the Chevy and Buick in my driveway a fleet. . . . __________________

03-12-2009, 01:43 AM	#16
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal Pinecone is correct. Websters defines arsenal as (1) a place where weapons are manufactured and stored and (2) a collection of weapons. Item number (2) would make any place that more than 1 weapon was stored an arsenal. Problem here is public perception of the word is a large cache of military type weaponry. I have a small arsenal of my own which I am most proud to say is much larger that that idiots stash.

03-12-2009, 01:52 AM	#17
1shot1k Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 904	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal It seems to be a fact that the mainstream media remains at a leftist slant , this , coupled with the "expected" accuracy drops expected by reports...the conservative or gun and 2nd crowds as ourselves , do not seem to ever have a fair enough representaion... the only exception to this seems to be...in my kneck of the woods anyway and others...is when the report is of " poor old granny yields 1860 Colt Dragoon and scares robber off back porch.." ....for some reason , these stories seem to mend the bridges temporarily ..... we definitely need more positive "gun" info within media. I guess Im gettin too old ...seems I can remember the time when the story " MAN ARMED TO THE TEETH ! " was about 2nd page story where " mailman bites dog.."

03-12-2009, 04:07 AM	#18
cosmo05 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 51	Re: Church Shooter Had Arsenal If that's an arsenal, then I'm the envy some 3rd world countries. The bad part is, misinformed people actually believe that anything more than one gun and one bullet is an arsenal.