1830's rifle - The Firearms Forum

Razin · 06-20-2011, 12:22 PM

Hello:

We recently acquired a rifle and we were hoping someone could give us any information on it, we were told it was from the 1830's, and a .54 cal, can an exact year be pinpointed? Could you also tell us what it was used for and what the value might be? Someone told us the wood had been replaced but that was a quess on their part. How would we tell if the wood was replaced? We didn't find any other markings other then "partridge" shown in the photo, and we have not taken the gun apart to look for any other markings. We were hoping to not do that

I've done some research but not knowing that much about antique rifles I thought I would let the pros tell me what they thought.

thanks for the assistance.

BETH · 06-20-2011, 03:05 PM

welcome to the forum, sharp, sure someone will be along to help u

Alpo · 06-20-2011, 04:40 PM

That's kinda neat. I seen lots of rifles with cheekpieces, but ain't never seen one with one on each side.

jjmitchell60 · 06-20-2011, 06:06 PM

Percussion ignition did not come about in the US till the 1830s and being 54 caliber tells me it is a later rifle. It is an early hawkin Style or as some would call it a 1/2 stock KY rifle. Now the large bore, 54 cal, was for taking bigger game WEST of the Mississippi River and mainly in the mountains or plains. Critters like Buffalo, Grizzley, Moose, elk, and etc. So IMHO that style is mre of a 1845 to 1860 rifle. Now is that the time period of that gun, my gut says NO. My gut says it is a reproduction, maybe early 20th century but using some older parts along with newer ones. One thing that is a mix match is the use of brass and german silver. You have a brass screw inlay on the left hand side of the rifle but German silver inlay to hold the barrel wedge. Anotehr thing is the barrel look way tooo nice to be an original IMHO.
Bottom line is it is a guess as to how old. We really need some close up pictures of bore end of batrrel, and close up pictures of ALL parts of the rifle to nail down a range as to when it could have been made. The 54 caliber is something that also tells me it is a reproduction. 54 cal is a more mosern caliber as to BP guns HOWEVER taht is not to say it was not used. Most rifle makers made a rifle out of what size drilles they had then made the mold for it. Really as I stated, need more poictures and close up ones. Pictures of any and all markings as well.

Razin · 06-20-2011, 07:20 PM

Hello, Thanks for the reply.

We measured the bore and it measures 45 - 54, and I'm posting a picture of it.

If it helps at all it weighs 7.9 pounds, the barrel length is 33.5 inches, and the total length of the rifle is 49 inches.

Im having a little bit of a hard time getting some good close up pictures, and will try again later.

Here are two pictures that might help.

Thanks again.

rhmc24 · 06-20-2011, 08:31 PM

It is what is commonly called a plains rifle, dating from the major western movement in this country, 1850s plus or minus. The name Partridge on the lock does not appear in my reference books. From what appears to be a gap at the lockplate and drum interface and the fit at the rear of the lockplate to the wood, I believe the lock may have been replaced, probably back in its use period. The same could explain the odd appearing screw-head plate on the opposite side. From what I see here it is a rifle that has survived in good condition. Lock replacement could affect its desirability to a purist but not appreciably its value. I agree with others that more and better detailed pictures would help.

BullShoot · 06-21-2011, 12:53 AM

It appears to be "PARTRIDE" without the "g" rather than "partridge"

rhmc24 · 06-21-2011, 04:57 AM

You're right, my typo! I always check for variations in spelling but came up blank.

Buffalochip · 06-21-2011, 02:23 PM

It has a hooked breech, barrel appears to be an original. It likely started life as a flintlock, which would explain the drum/nipple assembly and mismatched lock, which would be a replacement. The name on the lock may be of little significance as it was probably supplied by a vendor, which was common, and if it is indeed a replacement, of little significance. The double cheek piece is fairly uncommon, but perhaps made by a gunsmith with a bit of foresight. Lack of double triggers is also unusual on guns of this type. I'd put it at 1840-1860 or so. Nice rifle.

Hawg · 06-21-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalochip

It has a hooked breech, barrel appears to be an original. It likely started life as a flintlock, which would explain the drum/nipple assembly and mismatched lock, which would be a replacement. The name on the lock may be of little significance as it was probably supplied by a vendor, which was common, and if it is indeed a replacement, of little significance. The double cheek piece is fairly uncommon, but perhaps made by a gunsmith with a bit of foresight. Lack of double triggers is also unusual on guns of this type. I'd put it at 1840-1860 or so. Nice rifle.

The barrel may have been a flinter at some point but the stock never was. The lock has been replaced, you can tell by the way the cut out for for the drum was crudely extended. At 33.5 inches the barrel is pretty short for a plains rifle. Most plains rifles carried barrels from 36-44 inches.

06-20-2011, 12:22 PM	#1
Razin Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2	1830's rifle Hello: We recently acquired a rifle and we were hoping someone could give us any information on it, we were told it was from the 1830's, and a .54 cal, can an exact year be pinpointed? Could you also tell us what it was used for and what the value might be? Someone told us the wood had been replaced but that was a quess on their part. How would we tell if the wood was replaced? We didn't find any other markings other then "partridge" shown in the photo, and we have not taken the gun apart to look for any other markings. We were hoping to not do that I've done some research but not knowing that much about antique rifles I thought I would let the pros tell me what they thought. thanks for the assistance. Attached Images -->

06-20-2011, 03:05 PM	#2
BETH Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: naugatuck,Ct. Contributor Posts: 6,676	Re: 1830's rifle welcome to the forum, sharp, sure someone will be along to help u

06-20-2011, 04:40 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: 1830's rifle That's kinda neat. I seen lots of rifles with cheekpieces, but ain't never seen one with one on each side. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

06-20-2011, 06:06 PM	#4
jjmitchell60 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls of Kentucky Contributor Posts: 1,471	Re: 1830's rifle Percussion ignition did not come about in the US till the 1830s and being 54 caliber tells me it is a later rifle. It is an early hawkin Style or as some would call it a 1/2 stock KY rifle. Now the large bore, 54 cal, was for taking bigger game WEST of the Mississippi River and mainly in the mountains or plains. Critters like Buffalo, Grizzley, Moose, elk, and etc. So IMHO that style is mre of a 1845 to 1860 rifle. Now is that the time period of that gun, my gut says NO. My gut says it is a reproduction, maybe early 20th century but using some older parts along with newer ones. One thing that is a mix match is the use of brass and german silver. You have a brass screw inlay on the left hand side of the rifle but German silver inlay to hold the barrel wedge. Anotehr thing is the barrel look way tooo nice to be an original IMHO. Bottom line is it is a guess as to how old. We really need some close up pictures of bore end of batrrel, and close up pictures of ALL parts of the rifle to nail down a range as to when it could have been made. The 54 caliber is something that also tells me it is a reproduction. 54 cal is a more mosern caliber as to BP guns HOWEVER taht is not to say it was not used. Most rifle makers made a rifle out of what size drilles they had then made the mold for it. Really as I stated, need more poictures and close up ones. Pictures of any and all markings as well. __________________ Oath Keepers NOT ON OUR WATCH www.oathkeepers.org 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes Duty... Thomas Jefferson

06-20-2011, 07:20 PM	#5
Razin Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2	Re: 1830's rifle Hello, Thanks for the reply. We measured the bore and it measures 45 - 54, and I'm posting a picture of it. If it helps at all it weighs 7.9 pounds, the barrel length is 33.5 inches, and the total length of the rifle is 49 inches. Im having a little bit of a hard time getting some good close up pictures, and will try again later. Here are two pictures that might help. Thanks again. Attached Images

06-20-2011, 08:31 PM	#6
rhmc24 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 527	Re: 1830's rifle It is what is commonly called a plains rifle, dating from the major western movement in this country, 1850s plus or minus. The name Partridge on the lock does not appear in my reference books. From what appears to be a gap at the lockplate and drum interface and the fit at the rear of the lockplate to the wood, I believe the lock may have been replaced, probably back in its use period. The same could explain the odd appearing screw-head plate on the opposite side. From what I see here it is a rifle that has survived in good condition. Lock replacement could affect its desirability to a purist but not appreciably its value. I agree with others that more and better detailed pictures would help.

06-21-2011, 12:53 AM	#7
BullShoot V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: missouri ozarks Contributor Posts: 445	Re: 1830's rifle It appears to be "PARTRIDE" without the "g" rather than "partridge"

06-21-2011, 04:57 AM	#8
rhmc24 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 527	Re: 1830's rifle You're right, my typo! I always check for variations in spelling but came up blank.

06-21-2011, 02:23 PM	#9
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: 1830's rifle It has a hooked breech, barrel appears to be an original. It likely started life as a flintlock, which would explain the drum/nipple assembly and mismatched lock, which would be a replacement. The name on the lock may be of little significance as it was probably supplied by a vendor, which was common, and if it is indeed a replacement, of little significance. The double cheek piece is fairly uncommon, but perhaps made by a gunsmith with a bit of foresight. Lack of double triggers is also unusual on guns of this type. I'd put it at 1840-1860 or so. Nice rifle.