RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble - The Firearms Forum

bmg50doorgunner · 01-24-2010, 08:23 PM

Background:
When I seat my bullets I get a “ring” or an impression around the nose of the bullet. The bullet seats to accurate depths and with very little effort exerted on the handle of my press. I am using a Rock Chucker single-stage with RCBS .40S&W carbide die set. Per the RCBS die instructions I am not crimping. My seating depth is 1.120” with a tolerance of +/- 0.0005” … darn-near perfect. I’m new to reloading, but let me say that I have thoroughly read the Speer and Hornady reloading manuals (cover-to-cover) as well as the die set instructions. The RCBS website features this very problem in its FAQ section and recommends that the user purchase a custom-order die from its Special Order Catalog and send in your bullet to RCBS for a match.

http://www.rcbs.com/questions/dies_questions.aspx

Specs:
Bullet: Speer 165 gr. TMJ FN (This is a FMJ flat-nosed projectile)
Brass: Win, Federal, PMC, Blazer, etc.
Primer: Irrelevant
Powder: Irrelevant

Questions:
Do you think it’s likely that such a common die (RCBS .40S&W carbide) would have problems with such a common bullet? It’s not like I’m trying to reload a custom-cast lead projectile. Is it common for seater dies to leave impressions on bullets? I’ve also tried loading 165 gr. frangibles, which have a more rounded nose, but get similar impressions left by the “cup” of the seater plug. Is there a better die out there? I’m about to give up on this RCBS seater die and try a Lee substitute. I don’t see how I could be adjusting the seater die incorrectly if I’m getting such precise seating depths. Again, I am not crimping. Any other ideas???

Thanks for looking,
DF

muddober · 01-24-2010, 10:07 PM

There is nothing wrong with your RCBS stuff. All you need is a flat nose bullet seater plug. If you have access to a lathe you can make one out the existing seat plug you have. Take out the seat plug and take a look at it and you will see what I mean. You need to take the "cup" off of it. It sounds to me you somehow wound up with a round nosed bullet seater plug. The carbide portion of your dies is only in the sizer die, meaning that the seater dies are the same for carbide or non carbide.

Ron

312shooter · 01-24-2010, 11:40 PM

I have seen these rings occur in plated bullets such as berry's and rainer but not a jacketed. Before we go blaming your seater plug are you belling the case mouth properly before seating? I think I'd increase the bell on the case mouth a bit more, dollars to doughnuts your "ring" fades away with the correct amount of expansion in the case mouth. I think this is the only thing that would cause resistance enough to imprint a jacketed bullet other than the incorrect diameter bullet, or as I said it is a plated bullet and not actually jacketed.

bmg50doorgunner · 01-25-2010, 06:05 AM

Gents, thanks for taking the time to reply!

312shooter, I really thought you had my problem nailed. I re-checked the depth of the expander die and found I was only going about 1/2 the length of the protruding expander. I re-set the die and case flared the cases to the full depth of the expander. I then seated 6 more bullets. While the bullets slid in a bit easier, I am still getting that nasty ring imprinted on my bullets. [See photo].

Muddober, I think you're right. I think I'm gonna have to mill down the "cup" to a flat surface - or just try different bullets.

rocklinskier · 01-25-2010, 09:04 AM

Have you tried using the other seating plug? the one that is for round nose projectile that comes with the set? I'm assuming that there is one. I don't have the .40 set so I may be incorrect,(the .45 and 9mm have two seat plugs) but if there is one, it might be worth a try before modifying the flat/swc one.

Not the expert on this, so it is only a suggestion.

res45 · 01-25-2010, 10:19 AM

The Speer bullets have a slightly softer copper jacket the TMJ's as similar to the Speer GDHP's which are basically a fancy plated bullet just better quality,I shoot Speer and Berry's so I'm not knocking either one.

The seater plug in most pistol reloading dies are pretty generic,designed to be used with a variety of bullets,I got the same ring when I tried some Speer GDHP's in my 9 x 19 Mak. The seater plug just doesn't fit the profile of some bullets very well so hence the ring. One thing you can try and it works on some plugs is to take some valve grinding compound and the bullet your using and use it to polish the inside of the seater plug and smooth out the inside edges.

ADDED: If you have a dremal tool and some of those soft buffer wheels and some buffing compound you can use that also,it does a nice job of polishing up sharp edges.

Claude Clay · 01-25-2010, 10:34 AM

what res said--

touch it to a grinding wheel; take of a bit (perhaps 1/2 mm) and than bevel
the inner edge.
repeat if necessary.
comes under the heading of 'some minor fitting may be necessary'

good luck
and kudos for having such a clean work area
i rather have forgotten what one can look like......

01-24-2010, 08:23 PM	#1
bmg50doorgunner Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8	RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble Background: When I seat my bullets I get a “ring” or an impression around the nose of the bullet. The bullet seats to accurate depths and with very little effort exerted on the handle of my press. I am using a Rock Chucker single-stage with RCBS .40S&W carbide die set. Per the RCBS die instructions I am not crimping. My seating depth is 1.120” with a tolerance of +/- 0.0005” … darn-near perfect. I’m new to reloading, but let me say that I have thoroughly read the Speer and Hornady reloading manuals (cover-to-cover) as well as the die set instructions. The RCBS website features this very problem in its FAQ section and recommends that the user purchase a custom-order die from its Special Order Catalog and send in your bullet to RCBS for a match. http://www.rcbs.com/questions/dies_questions.aspx Specs: Bullet: Speer 165 gr. TMJ FN (This is a FMJ flat-nosed projectile) Brass: Win, Federal, PMC, Blazer, etc. Primer: Irrelevant Powder: Irrelevant Questions: Do you think it’s likely that such a common die (RCBS .40S&W carbide) would have problems with such a common bullet? It’s not like I’m trying to reload a custom-cast lead projectile. Is it common for seater dies to leave impressions on bullets? I’ve also tried loading 165 gr. frangibles, which have a more rounded nose, but get similar impressions left by the “cup” of the seater plug. Is there a better die out there? I’m about to give up on this RCBS seater die and try a Lee substitute. I don’t see how I could be adjusting the seater die incorrectly if I’m getting such precise seating depths. Again, I am not crimping. Any other ideas??? Thanks for looking, DF -->

01-24-2010, 10:07 PM	#2
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble There is nothing wrong with your RCBS stuff. All you need is a flat nose bullet seater plug. If you have access to a lathe you can make one out the existing seat plug you have. Take out the seat plug and take a look at it and you will see what I mean. You need to take the "cup" off of it. It sounds to me you somehow wound up with a round nosed bullet seater plug. The carbide portion of your dies is only in the sizer die, meaning that the seater dies are the same for carbide or non carbide. Ron

01-24-2010, 11:40 PM	#3
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble I have seen these rings occur in plated bullets such as berry's and rainer but not a jacketed. Before we go blaming your seater plug are you belling the case mouth properly before seating? I think I'd increase the bell on the case mouth a bit more, dollars to doughnuts your "ring" fades away with the correct amount of expansion in the case mouth. I think this is the only thing that would cause resistance enough to imprint a jacketed bullet other than the incorrect diameter bullet, or as I said it is a plated bullet and not actually jacketed. __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin Last edited by 312shooter; 01-24-2010 at 11:42 PM..

01-25-2010, 06:05 AM	#4
bmg50doorgunner Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble Gents, thanks for taking the time to reply! 312shooter, I really thought you had my problem nailed. I re-checked the depth of the expander die and found I was only going about 1/2 the length of the protruding expander. I re-set the die and case flared the cases to the full depth of the expander. I then seated 6 more bullets. While the bullets slid in a bit easier, I am still getting that nasty ring imprinted on my bullets. [See photo]. Muddober, I think you're right. I think I'm gonna have to mill down the "cup" to a flat surface - or just try different bullets. Attached Images

01-25-2010, 09:04 AM	#5
rocklinskier V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 295	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble Have you tried using the other seating plug? the one that is for round nose projectile that comes with the set? I'm assuming that there is one. I don't have the .40 set so I may be incorrect,(the .45 and 9mm have two seat plugs) but if there is one, it might be worth a try before modifying the flat/swc one. Not the expert on this, so it is only a suggestion. __________________ Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free ~Ronald Reagan.

01-25-2010, 10:19 AM	#6
res45 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 182	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble The Speer bullets have a slightly softer copper jacket the TMJ's as similar to the Speer GDHP's which are basically a fancy plated bullet just better quality,I shoot Speer and Berry's so I'm not knocking either one. The seater plug in most pistol reloading dies are pretty generic,designed to be used with a variety of bullets,I got the same ring when I tried some Speer GDHP's in my 9 x 19 Mak. The seater plug just doesn't fit the profile of some bullets very well so hence the ring. One thing you can try and it works on some plugs is to take some valve grinding compound and the bullet your using and use it to polish the inside of the seater plug and smooth out the inside edges. ADDED: If you have a dremal tool and some of those soft buffer wheels and some buffing compound you can use that also,it does a nice job of polishing up sharp edges. Last edited by res45; 01-25-2010 at 11:24 AM..

01-25-2010, 10:34 AM	#7
Claude Clay V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central CT Posts: 451	Re: RCBS .40S&W carbide seater die trouble what res said-- touch it to a grinding wheel; take of a bit (perhaps 1/2 mm) and than bevel the inner edge. repeat if necessary. comes under the heading of 'some minor fitting may be necessary' good luck and kudos for having such a clean work area i rather have forgotten what one can look like...... __________________ teachers may learn you the rules; experience will teach you the exceptions. NRA Instructor Last edited by Claude Clay; 01-25-2010 at 10:39 AM..