great mystery!! - The Firearms Forum

sluggermn · 03-25-2006, 03:47 PM

I have a gun that my uncle was in posession of that belonged to my father before he died. well my uncle decided to give me the gun since it belonged to my father.
I have one problem I have no idea what the gun is or even a caliber on the weapon.
the gun has these markings...
on the top of the chamber area is has a word that says (I think) belgium the b has fancy squiggles all over it.
on the bottom of the octogon barrel half way up the length there is a marking that looks like 3
6 6
the three is higher than the 2 sixes
on the left side of the breech block there is a cartouch that looks like a triangle with a reversed check mark thru it ??

to open the chamber there is a flip up cover that is attached to a sliding ejector, the hammer has to be at half or full cock to open this up.
on the left side of this cover here is 3 symbols a very tiny star with a "y" just below it ( this may be an x but the base of it smaller than the top) and below these there is a symbol that looks like a soup ladel laying in its back.
under the cover there is a crown with a "R" below it then a * and below the star there is a Y then the funnel or soup ladel and below all that there is a egg shaped logo with a crown like image coming out the top of the egg with a E
LG
R
inside the egg
below that row there is FL.8.M.1.L
any idea what this thing is??
age?
value
cond is fair to poor with some surface rust and the top of the hammer is broken off, the wood is in pretty good shape with only 3 or 4 little dings and a very minor crack at the front on both sides of the hand guard.
thank you
slugger

Xracer · 03-25-2006, 06:14 PM

Well Slugger, from what you've told us, all I can tell you is that it was made in Belgium.....the ELG proofmark tells us that.

Can you post a picture?

sluggermn · 03-25-2006, 06:53 PM

I will try
I lost all my camera software when the 'puter crashed

southernshooter · 03-26-2006, 01:00 AM

Is it a SKS my norinco has a triangle with 636 in it need some pics

sck · 03-26-2006, 11:04 PM

It really would be better if we had some pictures, but based on what you've offered to us, your rifle might be a Belgium Flobert. Unfortunately, there is considerable difference among "flobert" firearms, so there are untold numbers of variations, with each gun maker adding his own touch to the design. Do a search using these words (Belgium Flobert) in google and see if you come up with a picture that looks something like yours. Best of luck and good shooting -- Steve

sluggermn · 03-27-2006, 02:16 PM

hey sck you hit the nail on the head, now I just have to find the exact model and what caliber.
I have seen the belgum/flobert in a coach gun, a parlor gun ect.. but I have not seen the exact same one as mine.
also the caliber is confusing me. some say they are .9mm rim fire and some are .22 rim fire. and both of those had the same markings as mine fl.8M.1.L
.
also where would a person find .9mm rimfire to shoot out of this thing?
do any of you have sources for this?

thanks for all the responses!!

slugger

sck · 03-28-2006, 08:44 PM

Dear Sluggerman:
Thanks for letting me know that even an old geezer like me can help now and then. Unfortunately, I don't have a great deal of good news with regard to the rest of your questions.

With regard to finding more information about your specific firearm, there is hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath. When I was born, my mother bought a rifle for my father as a gift from his "new" son. Well, mom bought the fhing through the mail without consulting anyone, and it turned out to be a Belgium Flobert rifle. He tried to find info. and ammo for it for a couple of years, but then gave up and turned it into a very nice floor lamp! I've been looking for another example of that specific rifle for over 45 years and haven't found it yet. I've seen and handled thousands of Floberts, but never one quite like the one I wanted.

With regard to caliber, they were made in a wide variety of calibers. The only way to determine with absolute certainty the caliber of yours, is to cast the chamber. It's a little complicated, but if you're handy and/or have ever done anything like make candles, then you can handle it. Go to Brownell's web site and look for a product named "Cerosafe." It will come with directions, just be careful.

With regard to finding ammo, there are a couple of questions first. Is yours a rimfire or a centerfire? If it's a large size rim fire, you're probably out of luck. The only ones that I know of manufacturing obsolete ammo on a large scale is the Old Western Scrounger, which recently moved to Martinsburg, WVA. If it's centerfire, you'll have a little better luck since there are always handloaders out there who are willing to undertake a challenge. However, there is another crucial question that we need to address before you go looking for ammo.: is this thing safe to shoot? Once again, the answer depends on lots of things, but mostly on the strength of the action. Some of the very early Floberts were extremely weak, while some of the last ones were stronger, but still weak by modern standards. You have to remember that most of these were designed for blackpowder and shooting at very close range. Some of them were designed as "parlor" guns and were used at indoor shooting ranges (beer halls) with a distance of no more than 25 ft to the target. (The targets themselves are interesting and have become very collectible in recent years.) In any event, if I was brave enough to try to shoot a Flobert, I would only do so with it firmly clamped in a rest of some sort and me pulling a string to the trigger from a safe distance behind a barricade.

sluggermn · 03-29-2006, 03:23 AM

thank you sck!!
I still have yet to find the software to load pics to the 'puter from my digital camera, if I ever find that dang disk I will show you pics and mabey be able to identify better!

Im not sure I will ever shoot it just wondering if ammo is available.

looks like it may just end up a wall hanger. (or a lamp lol)

slugger

Xracer · 03-29-2006, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sck

Unfortunately, there is considerable difference among "flobert" firearms, so there are untold numbers of variations, with each gun maker adding his own touch to the design.-- Steve

And that's the problem with trying to identify the manufacturer of these inexpensive European firearms. Belgium, like the Eibar Region of Spain, was the home of literally hundreds of small, cottage industry, firearms makers. Each one made their firearms, and marked them, slightly differently....and, of course, none of the parts would interchange with anybody else's firearms.

So Slugger, the chances of you finding a picture of one exactly like yours is pretty slim....but good luck anyway.

sluggermn · 03-29-2006, 11:57 AM

any body have a lamp shade in either .9mm or .22 rimfire? that they would be willing to part with so I can complete my rifle? lol

thank you for the great information guys, you all never let me down when I have a gun question!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!
slugger

Xracer · 03-29-2006, 12:11 PM

Tell ya what Slugger.....you find a .9mm socket and a .9mm light bulb, and I'll find a shade for ya!

sluggermn · 03-29-2006, 03:05 PM

deal... but it has to be A .9mm RIM FIRE shade!!

lol

slugger

polishshooter · 03-30-2006, 08:28 PM

There's a letter to the Gunsmith in this months "Rifleman" about Floberts...(or was it "Field and Stream," I forget....

03-25-2006, 03:47 PM	#1
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	great mystery!! I have a gun that my uncle was in posession of that belonged to my father before he died. well my uncle decided to give me the gun since it belonged to my father. I have one problem I have no idea what the gun is or even a caliber on the weapon. the gun has these markings... on the top of the chamber area is has a word that says (I think) belgium the b has fancy squiggles all over it. on the bottom of the octogon barrel half way up the length there is a marking that looks like 3 6 6 the three is higher than the 2 sixes on the left side of the breech block there is a cartouch that looks like a triangle with a reversed check mark thru it ?? to open the chamber there is a flip up cover that is attached to a sliding ejector, the hammer has to be at half or full cock to open this up. on the left side of this cover here is 3 symbols a very tiny star with a "y" just below it ( this may be an x but the base of it smaller than the top) and below these there is a symbol that looks like a soup ladel laying in its back. under the cover there is a crown with a "R" below it then a * and below the star there is a Y then the funnel or soup ladel and below all that there is a egg shaped logo with a crown like image coming out the top of the egg with a E LG R inside the egg below that row there is FL.8.M.1.L any idea what this thing is?? age? value cond is fair to poor with some surface rust and the top of the hammer is broken off, the wood is in pretty good shape with only 3 or 4 little dings and a very minor crack at the front on both sides of the hand guard. thank you slugger __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger -->

03-25-2006, 06:14 PM	#2
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: great mystery!! Well Slugger, from what you've told us, all I can tell you is that it was made in Belgium.....the ELG proofmark tells us that. Can you post a picture?

03-25-2006, 06:53 PM	#3
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	Re: great mystery!! I will try I lost all my camera software when the 'puter crashed __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger

03-26-2006, 01:00 AM	#4
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: great mystery!! Is it a SKS my norinco has a triangle with 636 in it need some pics __________________ Only you can see this

03-26-2006, 11:04 PM	#5
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Re: great mystery!! It really would be better if we had some pictures, but based on what you've offered to us, your rifle might be a Belgium Flobert. Unfortunately, there is considerable difference among "flobert" firearms, so there are untold numbers of variations, with each gun maker adding his own touch to the design. Do a search using these words (Belgium Flobert) in google and see if you come up with a picture that looks something like yours. Best of luck and good shooting -- Steve

03-27-2006, 02:16 PM	#6
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	Re: great mystery!! hey sck you hit the nail on the head, now I just have to find the exact model and what caliber. I have seen the belgum/flobert in a coach gun, a parlor gun ect.. but I have not seen the exact same one as mine. also the caliber is confusing me. some say they are .9mm rim fire and some are .22 rim fire. and both of those had the same markings as mine fl.8M.1.L . also where would a person find .9mm rimfire to shoot out of this thing? do any of you have sources for this? thanks for all the responses!! slugger __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger

03-28-2006, 08:44 PM	#7
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Re: great mystery!! Dear Sluggerman: Thanks for letting me know that even an old geezer like me can help now and then. Unfortunately, I don't have a great deal of good news with regard to the rest of your questions. With regard to finding more information about your specific firearm, there is hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath. When I was born, my mother bought a rifle for my father as a gift from his "new" son. Well, mom bought the fhing through the mail without consulting anyone, and it turned out to be a Belgium Flobert rifle. He tried to find info. and ammo for it for a couple of years, but then gave up and turned it into a very nice floor lamp! I've been looking for another example of that specific rifle for over 45 years and haven't found it yet. I've seen and handled thousands of Floberts, but never one quite like the one I wanted. With regard to caliber, they were made in a wide variety of calibers. The only way to determine with absolute certainty the caliber of yours, is to cast the chamber. It's a little complicated, but if you're handy and/or have ever done anything like make candles, then you can handle it. Go to Brownell's web site and look for a product named "Cerosafe." It will come with directions, just be careful. With regard to finding ammo, there are a couple of questions first. Is yours a rimfire or a centerfire? If it's a large size rim fire, you're probably out of luck. The only ones that I know of manufacturing obsolete ammo on a large scale is the Old Western Scrounger, which recently moved to Martinsburg, WVA. If it's centerfire, you'll have a little better luck since there are always handloaders out there who are willing to undertake a challenge. However, there is another crucial question that we need to address before you go looking for ammo.: is this thing safe to shoot? Once again, the answer depends on lots of things, but mostly on the strength of the action. Some of the very early Floberts were extremely weak, while some of the last ones were stronger, but still weak by modern standards. You have to remember that most of these were designed for blackpowder and shooting at very close range. Some of them were designed as "parlor" guns and were used at indoor shooting ranges (beer halls) with a distance of no more than 25 ft to the target. (The targets themselves are interesting and have become very collectible in recent years.) In any event, if I was brave enough to try to shoot a Flobert, I would only do so with it firmly clamped in a rest of some sort and me pulling a string to the trigger from a safe distance behind a barricade.

03-29-2006, 03:23 AM	#8
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	Re: great mystery!! thank you sck!! I still have yet to find the software to load pics to the 'puter from my digital camera, if I ever find that dang disk I will show you pics and mabey be able to identify better! Im not sure I will ever shoot it just wondering if ammo is available. looks like it may just end up a wall hanger. (or a lamp lol) slugger __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger

03-29-2006, 11:57 AM	#10
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	Re: great mystery!! any body have a lamp shade in either .9mm or .22 rimfire? that they would be willing to part with so I can complete my rifle? lol thank you for the great information guys, you all never let me down when I have a gun question!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! slugger __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger

03-29-2006, 12:11 PM	#11
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: great mystery!! Tell ya what Slugger.....you find a .9mm socket and a .9mm light bulb, and I'll find a shade for ya!

03-29-2006, 03:05 PM	#12
sluggermn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nw minnesota Posts: 467	Re: great mystery!! deal... but it has to be A .9mm RIM FIRE shade!! lol slugger __________________ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson http://giftsrollup.com/?id=slugger

03-30-2006, 08:28 PM	#13
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: great mystery!! There's a letter to the Gunsmith in this months "Rifleman" about Floberts...(or was it "Field and Stream," I forget.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.