Out of Ammo...Damn snakes - The Firearms Forum

jdon72 · 10-11-2009, 03:06 PM

We were out hunting the other night and when I got off the stand, I needed to change the disk in the trail cam. On the way back, Something slithered across the path. I was going to let it go and my buddy Bill said shoot it. I had never seen a rattle or copperhead live in the woods and thought it was a rattler. But heard no rattle and knew it had to be a copperhead. By this time it was almost off the path and it changed direction and went to the right. I had my pistol drawn (glock 20 10mm) and fired without aiming...just pointing (keep in mind I had a mag light in the left hand and pistol in right.) at the direction. Well the little bastard turned and came toward us so I tried to aim by putting the hands next to each other and the snake flew about 5 ft back and still kept coming toward us. Bill's son (@35 yrs) had his ar15 (to shoot hogs...it was the only gun he brought down that had a working scope) and gave it a lead storm...@18 rds were expired and the snake went up and back and still kept coming. I shot a few more time and the snake finally stopped about 7 ft away. I checked my mag and no rounds left so i used all but 1..one in the chamber b/c it did not slide back and stay. I was right and had one left when I checked. I shot 11 shots.

I put this story in here because I reload my 10mm and now am looking for shake shot to reload or buy. Any suggestions? I could rig something up but do not want to screw something up. I am sure the pressure will not build up as much but want some input...What do others do? or what should I do.

Thanks guys

Jeff

woolleyworm · 10-11-2009, 04:23 PM

Ruger Sec-Six with shot shell and 130gr hyrdashok. When in the woods, I like to have a revolver at my side.

jdon72 · 10-11-2009, 05:03 PM

I had thought about getting the taurus judge which can shoot both 44 long colt and 410 shotshell...but I would want more shots if a hog pops out when I walk down the trail (we have a whole lot of hogs down here).

woolleyworm · 10-11-2009, 05:35 PM

If you can't stop'em with 5 shots of 410 3"mags and 45 colt, then I think the handgun becomes obsolete at that point.

Time to pull the bowie ! I think the Judge would be a great asset out in the bush.

Suwannee Tim · 10-11-2009, 06:50 PM

Maybe you should give up the guns and carry a shovel. You can't run a shovel out of ammo. The problem isn't the ammo. The problem is that you can't hit what you are shooting at. Snake loads out of a pistol are good to 8 or 10 feet max and six feet is better. If you are not willing to get that close then the best bet is stay out of the woods. Personally, I would have just gone over and stomped his head. Maybe a Claymore mine......

jdon72 · 10-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Again guys...i was shooting over the snakes head...most of the shots were pointed and not aimed...if it were a hog, which i have seen more of at night, it would have been a goner. Snake was 2 ft long and tiny head....the times i did aim, it was hit.

But the question remains...how to make a snake load?

Any advice...

Thanks for the slams on missing...

J

medalguy · 10-11-2009, 10:18 PM

I don't know of a snake load for 10mm but I make a nice .45 snake load using cut-down 7.62 brass. Works great. Maybe a note to RCBS will get their interest enough to make dies. There have to be a lot of others who would buy the dies.

jdon72 · 10-11-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medalguy

I don't know of a snake load for 10mm but I make a nice .45 snake load using cut-down 7.62 brass. Works great. Maybe a note to RCBS will get their interest enough to make dies. There have to be a lot of others who would buy the dies.

How do you make the load? do you cut the brass and crimp, add pellet and load into the shell? do you use the reg bullet seater or some other way to set the bullet in?

Thanks
J

user · 10-12-2009, 07:27 AM

I use a S&W model 63 revolver, .22LR, with CCI shotshells in it for snakes and rodents. Works great at close range.

dsv424 · 10-12-2009, 09:39 AM

Don't think you can do shot loads for semi-auto pistols. There is a lot of info on this for revolvers though. I looked for the same thing one time for my G20 but could find nothing for it.

jdon72 · 10-12-2009, 02:12 PM

I have seen shotshell loads for 40 cal and others but not 10mm. I thought about getting the 40 cal and transfering to the 10mm but do not want to pay the money and then do the work.

J

olehippy · 10-12-2009, 02:29 PM

What’s wrong with leaving the little guy alone? Sounds to me like he was just getting out of your way!

You might want to watch a few less cowboy movies and spend a LOT more time on the range if your going to be able to drop retreating snakes in the moonlight! Sorry to be a prick here, but I kill for meat or if I HAVE to, this BS just don’t qualify in my thinking.

Miles

red14 · 10-12-2009, 02:53 PM

I have to agree with olehippy.

If he was almost away, why kill him? Sounds like the reason he came at you was because you kept shooting at him. It was self defense!

29 shots for a 2' snake?

jdon72 · 10-12-2009, 03:21 PM

I believe in only harvesting an animal for food or self defense...but when it come to poisonous snakes, kill them...i have let king snakes go with no problem. I have even let bobcats go...now coyotes are another issue...they ruin the game that is out there and there is an overabundance here. They have been taking alot of wildlife here....although I have not seen one yet.

Think about the next day I am out walking the same trail with my kids or my dog and that same snake was by the trail and we walked up on him...kill the snakes that could cause damage to you.

Thanks for the comments...but again, any info on snake shot.

J

Suwannee Tim · 10-12-2009, 04:13 PM

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/produc...specialty.aspx

I'd rather see you spray the woods with CCI pistol shotshells than spray the woods with pistol and rifle bullets.

If that doesn't work I'm sure this will:

http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000150.html

jdon72 · 10-12-2009, 06:21 PM

Tim,

Thanks for trying...the first sight has all but 10mm.....great.

The second sight is hilarious...but still prefer the lead storm.

I appreciate the effort.

J

Suwannee Tim · 10-12-2009, 06:32 PM

You are not going to pull shot capsules out of a 40 caliber cartridge, they are fragile and tightly crimped, they will come out in pieces.

jdon72 · 10-12-2009, 06:49 PM

That is what i thought...I have wrote cci on the 10mm issue and hope they may have something.

I am going to get night sights for my glock but If i am alone, i still have to have a flashlight in one hand...at least i will not be just pointing but can see the sights and maybe aim more.

J

medalguy · 10-13-2009, 12:13 AM

There's a good articel on the 45 shot cartridge here:
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...cartridges.pdf
I use RCBS dies which I bought probably 30 years ago. I take a .308 case, trim it way down, form it so it looks like a 45 ACP with a taper in the front where the bullet would be, load it with Unique and a .410 gas check and 7-1/2 sahot on top, another gas check on top and roll crimp the end of the cartridge over the top gas check. By the way I don't know if RCBS still makes these dies but it might be worth a call to them.

The military used a .45 shot cartridge in the early 50's pilot's survival vest to go with the pistol but these cartridges had a paper cone on top, not rolled metal, and they needed to be hand fed one at a time. The .308 cases will feed in a M1911 I know for a fact. I loaded about 100 cases a number of years ago and I still am working on that first batch.

Good luck, they do work.

One further note-- I agree, the only good rattlesnake is a dead one. I kill several of them each year at my house whenever I see them. I don't want to have to worry about the one I DON'T see!

jdon72 · 10-13-2009, 12:23 AM

Thanks for the input medalguy...I have seen similar articles on the 45 but no 10mm...I could probably make a .40 out of 10mm but not the other way around.

CCI responded and they do not have 10mm only 40.

I guess the snakes are getting a lead storm....I am going to carry an extra mag at night.

J

Powderhorn · 10-13-2009, 03:02 AM

How about one of those laser units for your pistol? That way, you could easily pop that snake in half with only a shot or two.

I'm of the opinion to leave him be, but if you got to shoot him, seems this may be a good choice to get on target quickly.

res45 · 10-13-2009, 08:26 AM

Make your own 10MM snake loads Read post #22

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=57563&page=2

jdon72 · 10-13-2009, 10:46 AM

res...that is what I am looking for ...thanks for the sight and that may help alot. It gives step be step instructions.

The laser pointer is a good idea if put in the handle. If it were on the front rail, I would have to get a new holster and it might get banged more from all the use of climbing in tree stands and/or using climbers. That the case, I would put my small flashlight on the front and that way i could use both hands.

Thanks for the input.

J

res45 · 10-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Hope it works out for you I'm sure the guys there will give you all the help you need. Fortunately for me CCI/Speer makes shot capsules to load in my 357 snake rds. only down side is I only can load #8 shot instead of #9 but it works out fine and gets the job done.

RedPepper2 · 10-16-2009, 09:19 AM

Rattle snakes do not always rattle before launching their strikes. In my experience, snakes that aggressively attack usually have little snakes close by. But out of reflex and fear I to shoot in self defense. Keep shooting and voting.

10-11-2009, 03:06 PM	#1
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Out of Ammo...Damn snakes We were out hunting the other night and when I got off the stand, I needed to change the disk in the trail cam. On the way back, Something slithered across the path. I was going to let it go and my buddy Bill said shoot it. I had never seen a rattle or copperhead live in the woods and thought it was a rattler. But heard no rattle and knew it had to be a copperhead. By this time it was almost off the path and it changed direction and went to the right. I had my pistol drawn (glock 20 10mm) and fired without aiming...just pointing (keep in mind I had a mag light in the left hand and pistol in right.) at the direction. Well the little bastard turned and came toward us so I tried to aim by putting the hands next to each other and the snake flew about 5 ft back and still kept coming toward us. Bill's son (@35 yrs) had his ar15 (to shoot hogs...it was the only gun he brought down that had a working scope) and gave it a lead storm...@18 rds were expired and the snake went up and back and still kept coming. I shot a few more time and the snake finally stopped about 7 ft away. I checked my mag and no rounds left so i used all but 1..one in the chamber b/c it did not slide back and stay. I was right and had one left when I checked. I shot 11 shots. I put this story in here because I reload my 10mm and now am looking for shake shot to reload or buy. Any suggestions? I could rig something up but do not want to screw something up. I am sure the pressure will not build up as much but want some input...What do others do? or what should I do. Thanks guys Jeff -->

10-11-2009, 05:03 PM	#3
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I had thought about getting the taurus judge which can shoot both 44 long colt and 410 shotshell...but I would want more shots if a hog pops out when I walk down the trail (we have a whole lot of hogs down here).

10-11-2009, 05:35 PM	#4
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,881	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes If you can't stop'em with 5 shots of 410 3"mags and 45 colt, then I think the handgun becomes obsolete at that point. Time to pull the bowie ! I think the Judge would be a great asset out in the bush. __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

10-11-2009, 06:50 PM	#5
Suwannee Tim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,227	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Maybe you should give up the guns and carry a shovel. You can't run a shovel out of ammo. The problem isn't the ammo. The problem is that you can't hit what you are shooting at. Snake loads out of a pistol are good to 8 or 10 feet max and six feet is better. If you are not willing to get that close then the best bet is stay out of the woods. Personally, I would have just gone over and stomped his head. Maybe a Claymore mine...... Last edited by Suwannee Tim; 10-11-2009 at 06:51 PM..

10-11-2009, 09:35 PM	#6
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Again guys...i was shooting over the snakes head...most of the shots were pointed and not aimed...if it were a hog, which i have seen more of at night, it would have been a goner. Snake was 2 ft long and tiny head....the times i did aim, it was hit. But the question remains...how to make a snake load? Any advice... Thanks for the slams on missing... J

10-11-2009, 04:23 PM	#2
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,881	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Ruger Sec-Six with shot shell and 130gr hyrdashok. When in the woods, I like to have a revolver at my side. __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

10-11-2009, 10:18 PM	#7
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I don't know of a snake load for 10mm but I make a nice .45 snake load using cut-down 7.62 brass. Works great. Maybe a note to RCBS will get their interest enough to make dies. There have to be a lot of others who would buy the dies.

10-12-2009, 07:27 AM	#9
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I use a S&W model 63 revolver, .22LR, with CCI shotshells in it for snakes and rodents. Works great at close range. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

10-12-2009, 09:39 AM	#10
dsv424 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Garland, Tx. Posts: 279	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Don't think you can do shot loads for semi-auto pistols. There is a lot of info on this for revolvers though. I looked for the same thing one time for my G20 but could find nothing for it.

10-12-2009, 02:12 PM	#11
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I have seen shotshell loads for 40 cal and others but not 10mm. I thought about getting the 40 cal and transfering to the 10mm but do not want to pay the money and then do the work. J

10-12-2009, 02:29 PM	#12
olehippy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: S Tx near San Antonio Posts: 102	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes What’s wrong with leaving the little guy alone? Sounds to me like he was just getting out of your way! You might want to watch a few less cowboy movies and spend a LOT more time on the range if your going to be able to drop retreating snakes in the moonlight! Sorry to be a prick here, but I kill for meat or if I HAVE to, this BS just don’t qualify in my thinking. Miles __________________ I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! ! !

10-12-2009, 02:53 PM	#13
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,913	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I have to agree with olehippy. If he was almost away, why kill him? Sounds like the reason he came at you was because you kept shooting at him. It was self defense! 29 shots for a 2' snake? __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.

10-12-2009, 03:21 PM	#14
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes I believe in only harvesting an animal for food or self defense...but when it come to poisonous snakes, kill them...i have let king snakes go with no problem. I have even let bobcats go...now coyotes are another issue...they ruin the game that is out there and there is an overabundance here. They have been taking alot of wildlife here....although I have not seen one yet. Think about the next day I am out walking the same trail with my kids or my dog and that same snake was by the trail and we walked up on him...kill the snakes that could cause damage to you. Thanks for the comments...but again, any info on snake shot. J

10-12-2009, 04:13 PM	#15
Suwannee Tim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,227	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes http://www.cci-ammunition.com/produc...specialty.aspx I'd rather see you spray the woods with CCI pistol shotshells than spray the woods with pistol and rifle bullets. If that doesn't work I'm sure this will: http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000150.html Last edited by Suwannee Tim; 10-12-2009 at 04:23 PM..

10-12-2009, 06:21 PM	#16
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Tim, Thanks for trying...the first sight has all but 10mm.....great. The second sight is hilarious...but still prefer the lead storm. I appreciate the effort. J

10-12-2009, 06:32 PM	#17
Suwannee Tim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,227	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes You are not going to pull shot capsules out of a 40 caliber cartridge, they are fragile and tightly crimped, they will come out in pieces.

10-12-2009, 06:49 PM	#18
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes That is what i thought...I have wrote cci on the 10mm issue and hope they may have something. I am going to get night sights for my glock but If i am alone, i still have to have a flashlight in one hand...at least i will not be just pointing but can see the sights and maybe aim more. J

10-13-2009, 12:13 AM	#19
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes There's a good articel on the 45 shot cartridge here: http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...cartridges.pdf I use RCBS dies which I bought probably 30 years ago. I take a .308 case, trim it way down, form it so it looks like a 45 ACP with a taper in the front where the bullet would be, load it with Unique and a .410 gas check and 7-1/2 sahot on top, another gas check on top and roll crimp the end of the cartridge over the top gas check. By the way I don't know if RCBS still makes these dies but it might be worth a call to them. The military used a .45 shot cartridge in the early 50's pilot's survival vest to go with the pistol but these cartridges had a paper cone on top, not rolled metal, and they needed to be hand fed one at a time. The .308 cases will feed in a M1911 I know for a fact. I loaded about 100 cases a number of years ago and I still am working on that first batch. Good luck, they do work. One further note-- I agree, the only good rattlesnake is a dead one. I kill several of them each year at my house whenever I see them. I don't want to have to worry about the one I DON'T see! Last edited by medalguy; 10-13-2009 at 12:15 AM..

10-13-2009, 12:23 AM	#20
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Thanks for the input medalguy...I have seen similar articles on the 45 but no 10mm...I could probably make a .40 out of 10mm but not the other way around. CCI responded and they do not have 10mm only 40. I guess the snakes are getting a lead storm....I am going to carry an extra mag at night. J

10-13-2009, 03:02 AM	#21
Powderhorn V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NH Posts: 165	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes How about one of those laser units for your pistol? That way, you could easily pop that snake in half with only a shot or two. I'm of the opinion to leave him be, but if you got to shoot him, seems this may be a good choice to get on target quickly. __________________ 'Tis sad irony that the very people who work against our gun ownership are the ones that we will be called upon to defend should the need arise. -Me

10-13-2009, 08:26 AM	#22
res45 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 182	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Make your own 10MM snake loads Read post #22 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=57563&page=2

10-13-2009, 10:46 AM	#23
jdon72 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 340	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes res...that is what I am looking for ...thanks for the sight and that may help alot. It gives step be step instructions. The laser pointer is a good idea if put in the handle. If it were on the front rail, I would have to get a new holster and it might get banged more from all the use of climbing in tree stands and/or using climbers. That the case, I would put my small flashlight on the front and that way i could use both hands. Thanks for the input. J

10-13-2009, 11:16 AM	#24
res45 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 182	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Hope it works out for you I'm sure the guys there will give you all the help you need. Fortunately for me CCI/Speer makes shot capsules to load in my 357 snake rds. only down side is I only can load #8 shot instead of #9 but it works out fine and gets the job done.

10-16-2009, 09:19 AM	#25
RedPepper2 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	Re: Out of Ammo...Damn snakes Rattle snakes do not always rattle before launching their strikes. In my experience, snakes that aggressively attack usually have little snakes close by. But out of reflex and fear I to shoot in self defense. Keep shooting and voting.