Krag project

[TheJakster2]

The attached link has photos of my latest project. I recently acquired a 1898 Krag 30/40, it had already been modified or "sportified" as some call it. I am making a hunting rifle out of it.(Please don't hate me). As the pictures show the original stock had a bad crack and water damage at the end, short of buying a new stock I'm trying to rework the original stock. Sorry there are no pictures of the disassembly but my daughter borrowed my camera and I just got it back. I will update as I complete more. Tomorrow will be the attachment and fitting of the new stock end with the extension. Can't wait to get it finished and get to the range, ordering the scope mount tomorrow.

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff214/TheJakster2/Krag%20project/?action=view&current=65c00899.pbw

All comments as usual are appreciated.

Added some new photos of new stock repair 11/18

Jake

[Gabob]

Those old Krags have the slickest actions I have every seen. What type scope mount are you planning to use? Some of the Krag actions are extremely hard and they are tough to drill and tap.(carbide drills work best)

I hunted for many years with two Krag carbines. Remember that you are using an action well over a hundred years old and the heat treatment was not up to modern standards. I always limited my ammo to very slow burning powder.
I once shot one of my half Brahma cows that had gone wild with one of my Krags. She went down so fast that I didn't see her fall. Loaded her with a tractor and took 6 men to get her out of the truck at deer processor. I had 4 of those cows break out and get into swamps . Couldn't trap them because they tore every trap up. Shot two more a few days later and the fourth surrendered
Want to see pictures of finished project

[travihanson]

I think that is going to be a beautiful piece and you should post pics as soon as you get it finished....It seems like you do good work...

[Bruce FLinch]

Hey neat slide presentation, Jak! I didn't know the Krag was a Springfield! Confused about the caliber 30/40. Necked down case? Nice woodworking.

[TheJakster2]

As far as scope mounts are corned I'm looking at two, look about the same and require no drilling.

http://www.gunaccessories.com/Milita...1898/index.asp

http://www.scopemounts.com/98krag.html

30/40 very similar to the 308 as far as ballistics

And yes slide action is like butter, one of the reasons I decided I had to have it when I picked it up. Like you need a reason

[Gabob]

Looks like either of those scope mounts would work fine. On one of my Krags a previous owner had cut a dovetail into the stock and inleted a pistol grip into it. Then checkered it and the addition is almost impossible to see.

One weakness of the Krag in military service was the thin area of the stock underneath the magazine. It tended to break under hard useage(buttstroking someone).

The rib on the bolt will pinch the begibbers out of your finger tips if you are not careful when you close the bolt.

I really have a love for the Krags. The machine work is unbelieveable.
Mine have taken quite a bit of game. I had retired them but now you have me wanting to hunt with them again.

[TheJakster2]

[quote=Gabob;284303]One weakness of the Krag in military service was the thin area of the stock underneath the magazine. It tended to break under hard useage(buttstroking someone)

Wow, could that lead off into a wild thread. Regardless of interpretation, I promise not to "buttstroke" anyone with mine

Seriously they are really smooth if someone has never picked one up. I know what you mean about the bolt, been there already.

Hardest part of the next few days will be waiting for parts to come. Got to order a recoil pad, put a little poll up about it but I think I'm leaning toward the brown pad since I'm going to stain the stock a medium brown. Don't want to stain until I fit the recoil pad.

Both the scope mount look alike so I will be ordering that as well, if everything goes well I'll be posting pictures of the finished product next week end.

[Gabob]

Here is a picture of the Krag that someone added a pistol grip. If you look closely you can see the dovetail in the stock. I didn't notice that the sling had mildewed until I saw it in the picture.
My other Krag carbine was on the horse with me when we got into the yellow jacket nest. The stock was cracked but my uncle did such a neat job of repair that it is hard to find.



the Krag on the bottom is the one that had the cracked stock

[BobMcG]

Nice project and an excellent way to take care of the bad stock wood!

Bruce,

Yes, the .30-40 ARMY (KRAG) cartridge is a cartridge all unto itself. It was developed in 1892 and was our county's first smokeless military round. The original loading used 40gr of smokeless powder pushing a 220gr full metal bullet at 1,968fps out of a full length (30") rifle barrel.

[TheJakster2]

You are right, you can hardly see the dovetail. I thought about trying to take the cracked area out but the water-damaged on the bottom was harboring some dry-rot. I was kinda looking for a reason to whittle down one of those chunks of birch anyways. So far I'm pleased with the results and it's absolutely killing me waiting on the recoil pad, but I want to hold off till I fit it.
Jones'in real bad to get out and shoot it.

[Bruce FLinch]

Originally Posted by BobMcG

Nice project and an excellent way to take care of the bad stock wood!

Bruce,

Yes, the .30-40 ARMY (KRAG) cartridge is a cartridge all unto itself. It was developed in 1892 and was our county's first smokeless military round. The original loading used 40gr of smokeless powder pushing a 220gr full metal bullet at 1,968fps out of a full length (30") rifle barrel.

Very Interesting, Bob. Thanks for the info. So that is real close to a .308. So was Krag the guy who developed the round? & for 10 extra points, what was the first commercial smokeless powder round?

[TheJakster2]

Originally Posted by Bruce FLinch

Very Interesting, Bob. Thanks for the info. So that is real close to a .308. So was Krag the guy who developed the round? & for 10 extra points, what was the first commercial smokeless powder round?

I believe I said they were similar, I was referring to the rounds commercially produced today. When compared side by side they are similar.

Oh Alex for 10 point "What was the first commercial smokeless powder round?"

What is the .30 WCF commonly known as 30-30

[Bruce FLinch]

Originally Posted by TheJakster2

I believe I said they were similar, I was referring to the rounds commercially produced today. When compared side by side they are similar.

Oh Alex for 10 point "What was the first commercial smokeless powder round?"

What is the .30 WCF commonly known as 30-30

Give that man an extra scoop of Gravy & slice of Pie!

[BobMcG]

Originally Posted by Bruce FLinch

So was Krag the guy who developed the round? & for 10 extra points, what was the first commercial smokeless powder round?

The weapon was developed by Ole Krag and Erik Jorgensen at the Konigsberg Arms Factory in Norway and thus the common names “Krag-Jorgensen”,“.30-40 Krag” or simply “Krags”. All "Krags" were manufactured at the Springfield Armory in MA. The round the weapons were developed around was probably a joint effort with the U.S. Army and thus the .30 ARMY caliber designation but I'm not positive about that. I'll have to do some research on that aspect. I do know that due to improvements to the smokeless-powder base, which effected trajectory, front and rear sights were recalibrated often, requiring many rear sight model designations.

The model history goes like this:

Rifles, Models of 1892, 1896 and 1898

Carbines, Models of 1892 (Prototype), 1896, 1898 and 1899

Rear Sights, Models of 1892, 1896, 1898, 1901 and 1902



And 10-4 to the .30WCF being the first commercial smokeless round.

Now, for ten more points... In what country was smokeless powder invented?

And for double bonus points... What was the first smokeless military round?

[Bruce FLinch]

Originally Posted by BobMcG

And 10-4 to the .30WCF being the first commercial smokeless round.

Now, for ten more points... In what country was smokeless powder invented?

And for double bonus points... What was the first smokeless military round?

According to Wikipedia, looks like France, for the invention of smokeless powder. What was France! is the answer.

History
Military commanders had been complaining since the Napoleonic Wars about the problems of giving orders on a battlefield that was covered in thick smoke from the gunpowder used by the guns. A major step forward was introduced when guncotton, a nitrocellulose-based material, was first introduced by Christian Friedrich Schönbein in 1846. He also promoted its use as a blasting explosive.

Guncotton was more powerful than gunpowder, but at the same time was somewhat more unstable. This made it unsuitable as a propellant for small firearms: not only was it dangerous under field conditions, but guns that could fire thousands of rounds using gunpowder would be "used up" after only a few hundred with the more powerful guncotton. It did find wide use with artillery. However, within a short time there were a number of massive explosions and fatalities in guncotton factories due to lack of appreciation of its sensitivity and the means of stabilization. Guncotton then went out of use for some twenty years or more until it could be tamed; it was not until the 1880s that it became a viable propellant.

In 1884 Paul Vieille invented a smokeless gunpowder called Poudre B, made from gelatinized guncotton mixed with ether and alcohol. It was passed through rollers to form thin sheets, which were cut into flakes of the desired size. The resulting propellant, today known as pyrocellulose, contains somewhat less nitrogen than guncotton and is less volatile. A particularly good feature of the propellant is that it will not burn unless it is compressed, making it very safe to handle under normal conditions.

Vieille's powder revolutionized the effectiveness of small guns, for several reasons. First, it gave off almost no smoke. After a few shots, a soldier with black powder ammunition would have his view obscured by a huge pall of smoke unless there was a strong wind. Conversely, a sniper or other hidden shooter would not be given away by a cloud of smoke over the firing position. Further, it was three times more powerful than black powder, which gave more power from less powder. The higher muzzle velocity meant a flatter trajectory and therefore more accurate long range fire, out to perhaps 1000 metres in the first smokeless powder rifles. Since less powder was needed to propel a bullet, the cartridge could be made smaller and lighter. This allowed troops to carry more ammunition for the same weight. Also, it would burn even when wet. Black powder ammunition had to be kept dry and was almost always stored and transported in watertight cartridges.

Vielle's powder was used in the Lebel rifle that was immediately introduced by the French Army to exploit its huge benefits over black powder. Other European countries swiftly followed and started using their own versions of Poudre B, the first being Germany and Austria which introduced new weapons in 1888.

Meanwhile, in Great Britain, in 1887, Alfred Nobel developed a smokeless gunpowder called Ballistite. A modified form of this was devised by Sir Frederick Abel and James Dewar which eventually became known as Cordite, leading to a lengthy court battle between Nobel and the other two inventors over alleged British patent infringement. In the USA, in 1890, a patent for smokeless powder was obtained by Hudson Maxim.

8MM Lebel was the first military smokeless round... I mean, What is the 8mm Lebel!

[BobMcG]

8mm Lebel is the civilian name for the 8x50Rmm cartridge. Here is a double picture of (L-R on the left side) the 8x50Rmm; 7.9x75mmJS; .30 ARMY. On the right side (L-R) are the civilian versions, 8mm Lebel; 8mm Mauser; .30 ARMY or .30-40 Krag as it went by both names.




And the .30 ARMY in the picture is a cast lead handload and not a FMJ.

[BobMcG]

I have two French Berthier carbines that have been slightly sporterized that are chambered for the 8mm Lebel. These (a 1917 & a 1918, top & middle ) use a three round magazine. The 1917 (top) was manufactured with a manual safety, the 1918 (middle) wasn't.
The bottom photo is of a newer model that used a five round magazine and shows an un-sporterized carbine.

The 8mm Lebel was a .308win class cartridge with the Remington 170grSP (in the upper pictures) running @ 2,579fps w/ 2,500 ftlbs .

[noslolo]

Very nice work!! Please post somemore pics when you are done!